R600 Front Shocks?

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Need part number help! Front shocks listed on build sheet as 14QK2100. Found several variations on that (14QK2100P1, or P3, etc...). Trying to cross over to a correct Monroe or Gabriel number. Sometimes the P1 or whatever seems to matter...other times not.

Findit parts lists several Mack versions, including the plain 2100 number. Prices vary considerably.

Wonder if the P1 or P3 is a revision, or an actual different part. They don't necessarily cross over exactly the same, depending on whose chart you use.

Anybody have direct, personal knowledge about this?

[Mack458]

I checked PAI Industrial Parts - there reference number is HSA-5080.

https://www.paiindustries.com/parts/partsearchresult.php?s_keyword=14QK2100

Finditparts should be able to get these for you.

Mark

[thomastractorsvc]

I just picked up the rear ones for my R, this is the part number Monroe shock 66878 for the front, about $35 ea + or - where you by them, that also crosses to the PAI and Mack number

Just googled the Monroe number and this popped up http://www.drivetrainamerica.com/p-15889-66878-monroe-60-series-gas-magnum-shock-absorber.aspx?cagpspn=pla&gclid=CNOY5v36vrgCFY3m7AoduTkA1A

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Thanks, guys. The Monroe 66878 is what I found, as well. And, the Gabriel seems to be an 83221. Anybody used either of those?

[thomastractorsvc]

That's what is on my truck, when I pulled the fifth wheel off one rear was bad so I decided to replace them all, I am pretty sure they are factory or close to it on my truck. (1980)

[doubleclutchinweasel]

That's what is on my truck, when I pulled the fifth wheel off one rear was bad so I decided to replace them all, I am pretty sure they are factory or close two it on my truck. (1980)

I presume you mean the Monroes? And how did you like them?

[thomastractorsvc]

Don't know yet, I am still messing with the frame/fifth wheel and paint. I am sure that on a bobtail truck one will never know, mine are/where Gabriel I think I got back Monroe's its been a couple of weeks and they are laying in the shop, I keep tripping over the old ones for some reason I have not put them in the scrap pile yet.

[kscarbel]

Wonder if the P1 or P3 is a revision, or an actual different part. They don't necessarily cross over exactly the same, depending on whose chart you use.

A letter suffix after the base part number, typically A, B or C, denotes an engineering improvement, but the parts are interchangeable.

For example, 14QK2100P1, 14QK2100AP1, 14QK2100BP1. These would all be interchangeable.

However, "P" variations are distinctly different parts. You can not interchange a 14QK2100P1 with a 14QK2100P3.

Why not contact a Volvo-Mack dealer and buy the correct part? The will-fit shock absorbers will NOT give you the same fit and performance as the "made for Mack" version.

The reason multiple Mack P variations sometimes all cross to one "will-fit" part number is because the will-fit parts are often a compromise solution. Do you want to install a compromise part on your truck?

You've got an older R-model with multi-leaf front springs, right? So you need a pair of 14QK2100P1 front shocks. Why don't you give Barry and the good folks at Watts Mack a call?

[doubleclutchinweasel]

A letter suffix after the base part number, typically A, B or C, denotes an engineering improvement, but the parts are interchangeable.

For example, 14QK2100P1, 14QK2100AP1, 14QK2100BP1. These would all be interchangeable.

However, "P" variations are distinctly different parts. You can not interchange a 14QK2100P1 with a 14QK2100P3.

Why not contact a Volvo-Mack dealer and buy the correct part? The will-fit shock absorbers will NOT give you the same fit and performance as the "made for Mack" version.

The reason multiple Mack P variations sometimes all cross to one "will-fit" part number is because the will-fit parts are often a compromise solution. Do you want to install a compromise part on your truck?

You've got an older R-model with multi-leaf front springs, right? So you need a pair of 14QK2100P1 front shocks. Why don't you give Barry and the good folks at Watts Mack a call?

Information about revisions and such very much appreciated. Yet, you mention the "P1" part. The build sheet calls for "no P" (see original post).

I agree with your assessment of the "will fit" parts. They may fit, but the damping rates may not be thecsame as the originals!

Thanks again for the info.

[kscarbel]

Information about revisions and such very much appreciated. Yet, you mention the "P1" part. The build sheet calls for "no P" (see original post).

Sorry for not being more clear. The base part number without the P variation shown (14QK2100) is the same as the P1 variation (14QK2100P1). When Mack people saw 14QK2100 on a line sheet, we instinctively knew that's a 14QK2100P1.

[farmer52]

I was able to get a print of the front shock used on my MH. The print listed the Monroe part number so I ordered it from a parts warehouse at a lower price than Mack wanted for the same part.

[kscarbel]

I was able to get a print of the front shock used on my MH. The print listed the Monroe part number so I ordered it from a parts warehouse at a lower price than Mack wanted for the same part.

Your front shock is a 14QK373, right? Typically, in return for the Mack contract, the vendors aren't allowed to sell the "Mack spec" shock themselves. But these are older parts so the vendor might not still be obligated. And I don't know how the Swedes handle it now.

How's your shift tower shock absorber?

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Sorry for not being more clear. The base part number without the P variation shown (14QK2100) is the same as the P1 variation (14QK2100P1). When Mack people saw 14QK2100 on a line sheet, we instinctively knew that's a 14QK2100P1.

So, if I understand you perfectly...

A 14QK2100 shock would have been the "original" version of that part. It would have no "P" on it. But, as soon as there was a different version, the new part would become a 14QK2100P2, and the "no P" part would become the 14QK2100P1. Is that the gist of it?

The reason I ask is that I can get a 14QK2100 for $68 apiece, and a 14QK2100P1 for $38 apiece. Pretty significant difference! So, as long as it truly is the same part... Ya' see?

On a side note, and in defense of some of the guys who have used non-Mack parts, I have had the Mack parts folks (on occasion) give me the vendor (TRW, Moog, etc...) part number for the Mack part. Remember, Mack doesn't make EVERYTHING they use. They make some. They have some made to spec. And, on occasion, they buy an already-existing part.

[kscarbel]

So, if I understand you perfectly...

A 14QK2100 shock would have been the "original" version of that part. It would have no "P" on it. But, as soon as there was a different version, the new part would become a 14QK2100P2, and the "no P" part would become the 14QK2100P1. Is that the gist of it?

The reason I ask is that I can get a 14QK2100 for $68 apiece, and a 14QK2100P1 for $38 apiece. Pretty significant difference! So, as long as it truly is the same part... Ya' see?

On a side note, and in defense of some of the guys who have used non-Mack parts, I have had the Mack parts folks (on occasion) give me the vendor (TRW, Moog, etc...) part number for the Mack part. Remember, Mack doesn't make EVERYTHING they use. They make some. They have some made to spec. And, on occasion, they buy an already-existing part.

That's right, after additional variations are introduced, the plain number becomes a P1.

And often, engineering (responsible for the line sheets) would leave off the P1 even though there were more variations (because some blueprints were written this way), but in parts operations they always used the P1.

Something like a Cruise-Liner and MR rear cab latch (produced by Power Packer), 184QS39301A, had the "A" to denote an engineering improvement, but no P variation because there was only one version. And note the 5 digit Mack Western style part number, which carried on to the MR because the part was originally designed for the Hayward-production first generation Cruise-Liner.

Anyway, buy the $38 14QK2100P1s and you'll be all set to go.

No, Mack doesn't make everything they use. But the specifications handed down to the vendors are typically different than the will-fit vendor branded items. Mack used to have a Monroe all-makes shock absorber program, and the shocks were NOT the same as what Monroe supplied under the Mack part number, which was supplied exactly to the blueprint specs.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

That's right, after additional variations are introduced, the plain number becomes a P1.

And often, engineering (responsible for the line sheets) would leave off the P1 even though there were more variations (because some blueprints were written this way), but in parts operations they always used the P1.

Something like a Cruise-Liner and MR rear cab latch (produced by Power Packer), 184QS39301A, had the "A" to denote an engineering improvement, but no P variation because there was only one version. And note the 5 digit Mack Western part number, which carried on to the MR because the part was originally designed for the Hayward-production first generation Cruise-Liner.

Anyway, buy the $38 14QK2100P1s and you'll be all set to go.

No, Mack doesn't make everything they use. But the specifications handed down to the vendors are typically different than the will-fit vendor branded items. Mack used to have a Monroe all-makes shock absorber program, and the shocks were NOT the same as what Monroe supplied under the Mack part number, which was supplied exactly to the blueprint specs.

Thanks.

And, by the way, the local Mack dealer shows the 14QK2100 in stock at a warehouse. He looked up the 14QK2100P1, and it was "superceded by" the 14QK2100. That would tend to support the "they are the same" theory, as an older number would typically not supercede a later number...unless they were the same part.

[kscarbel]

Thanks.

And, by the way, the local Mack dealer shows the 14QK2100 in stock at a warehouse. He looked up the 14QK2100P1, and it was "superceded by" the 14QK2100. That would tend to support the "they are the same" theory, as an older number would typically not supercede a later number...unless they were the same part.

I hear you what you're saying. And I already said, a 14QK2100 and 14QK2100P1 are indeed the same thing. But in the days of Mack Trucks, only engineering might not use the P1 (the way the blueprints were typically written, and your truck's line sheet), whereas parts operations would always use the "P1".

But I have never seen a P1 suffix dropped even if the other P variations had been discontinued. If that's what Volvo has done, then no wonder the parts system is a convoluted mess now.

And Volvo wants $68 a piece for that shock? This is a great example of the Volvo stick-the-customer pricing I spoke of the other day. I could easily accept the $38 price, but not $68.

Since acquiring Mack Trucks, Volvo have adopted a strategy/policy of marking up spare parts prices to "just below" the point where most customers will walk away.

For example, an AC belt used to be $3.00 to $4.50. Mack's cost as around $1.00. Mack covered their overhead and made a solid profit, and yet the customer received a fair price. But Volvo came in and decided that most customers would be willing to pay $9.00 to $15.00 for that AC belt. Anyone that has been purchasing Mack parts for many years knows exactly what I am speaking about.

The other day I needed a low air pressure sender. The Volvo/Mack dealer demanded an absurd $105, while the exact same Cole Hersee switch was available for just $7 at NAPA. This is a typical example of Volvo intentionally raping the American customer so as to improve their global margins. Mack Trucks didn't do business this way.

Mack Trucks wasn't selling the parts too cheap, rather they gave the customer a sound reason to shop at Mack's dealers rather than the will-fit parts house. But now Volvo has pushed customers out of the Mack dealers. No customers shop at Mack (Volvo) dealers for anything other than proprietary items they can't buy elsewhere.

Volvo's stick-the-customer strategy has been a poison pill to the service departments at the Mack dealers as well. Up to 80 percent of the service work performed is warranty now, because they are unable to be price competitive with customer and local shops. In the days of Mack Trucks, warranty repairs never accounted for more than 10 percent of shop work.

And Volvo's termination of Mack part numbers, replacing them with meaningless "Volvo global part numbers", has destroyed the once superior Mack parts system. The Mack part numbering system combined shear brilliance with simplicity. Easy-to-remember part numbers that told you exactly what that part was. This is why Mack parts people were the best in the world.

The randomly chosen and impossible-to-remember "Volvo global part numbers" represent.......nothing. It amounts to much more than a huge step backwards. Relating to Mack, the part number change to Volvo global part numbers is just plain stupid.

The Mack part numbering system was VASTLY superior to the dysfunctional Volvo system. The Mack parts computer software was vastly superior to Volvos.

Mack veterans in parts operations stood up at meetings and told Volvo the changes were huge mistakes, and most of those experienced Mack veterans were shown the door.

[Vladislav]

Let me toss a question in the ring.

I have my R688ST with 3 leaves front springs and Neway airride.

What shock absorber part number I should keep with?

To my big sorry Mack museum hasn't recognized my truck so I probaly have no chances about production record.

Or is it more question to Barry?

[kscarbel]

Let me toss a question in the ring.

I have my R688ST with 3 leaves front springs and Neway airride.

What shock absorber part number I should keep with?

To my big sorry Mack museum hasn't recognized my truck so I probaly have no chances about production record.

Or is it more question to Barry?

Your front shock is a 14QK366P1. Ask Barry what your rear shock is for that Neway.

[Vladislav]

Thanks alot.

My truck has the shocks as KamAZ front shocks all around.

By the word, now I know they're Mack related, isn't it?

I think I better should put them originals in, maybe it will run smoother on road cracks.

[thomastractorsvc]

looked at my boxes yesterday they are Monroe's', the originals were the Gabriel's The old one and the new look identical except for the brand same color yellow.

[kscarbel]

looked at my boxes yesterday they are Monroe's', the originals were the Gabriel's The old one and the new look identical except for the brand same color yellow.

Mack used two vendors in theory, but typically sourced shocks from Monroe (who I preferred).

For example, in theory, the MH front shock could be 14QK373 (Monroe) or 14QK378M (Gabriel).