Mack vs Freightliner Back to the drawing board

[LSI]

I was looking at a new Mack.(road truck)Mack and Freightliner had the best fuel mileage.But after reading about dash problems and door problems,key lock not working on the 2013's,I am having second thoughts.One posting is having problems with several trucks.I really didn't want to go with Freightliner.I may not have a choice.

[kscarbel]

One aspect to ponder, is that the Germans are by nature perfectionist. Cars for example. BMW and Mercedes-Benz simply don't build a car with the same mindset that GM builds Cadillacs and Toyota builds Lexus. Thus with Freightliner (and Detroit Diesel) owned by Daimler, you're going to see some of that Germanic cultural thinking coming through. They're extremely particular people about doing things the right way (as they preceive it).

[rsb502]

WHAT! Ok I have been around Freightshakers for a while both in the seat and the shop andthey are noisy, rattly, the dash rattles and falls apart, the chassis plumbing and wiring sucks and they drive like crap. Best Freightliner ever in recent years was the FLD120 bother set forward and set back axle models, best driving shaker I've ever been in. Now Mack on the other hand has a solid interior from the R model up, excellent plumbing and wiring and all have driven great. I hate to break any bubbles but ANY newer trucks are gonna have issues the fact is all the manufacturers are trying to build more with less and it shows. I still couldn't go Freightliner over Mack even at a $10k savings id still go Mack, the only possible substitute for me would be a KW they are also solid trucks that drive well.

[bbigrig]

The dash problems are on the older Mack interiors, not the new ones. The new ones are experiencing some fit and finish issues but small stuff in comparison to other manufacturers. Freightliners have there issues as well. Lots of Rad cracking issues on the Cascadia's because they are mounted to the engine and not on isolators to the frame like most trucks. They all have there issues. Pick one you have a good relationship with for when the service and warranty issues pop up. Its the way things are these days if you own a new truck of any make and model.

[bullhusk]

I own about 18 Freightliners, stay away from the Columbia,and the Cascadia's they are nightmares to work on!! Most of mine are Classic's with Detroit Diesels I would not own another engine cause of the product support Detroit gives you! Now I don't own any but I would like to try a Coronado some of the guys I talk to like em, the last 3 trucks that I have bought have been Western Stars with 14 and 15 Liter Detroit's in them. So far the W-Stars have been working out good except for the M/T weight, they are HEAVY MOTHER'S!! But are built like the old R- Macks and the old A-Cars and they are very E/Z trucks to work on and parts for both trucks are are reasonable and won't put ya otta buzz. like a K-Worth or a P-B (but are also good trucks) The Dealer I use in PA Horwith and the Detroit guys in Jersey both take care of my needs when the Sh_t hits the fan and cover just about all Wr-Tee work without any BS like the Cat guys do. The only wiring prob's I ever had was with my Pete's none with my F-Shakers, the only truck that I had to sell was the W900 Kenworth with that 8 bag air ride! That one the dash did fall out of!! LOL NO KIDDIN!! One rough riddin truck! My guys loved it untill they drove it! My 1988 R- Mack E-350 T2090 4.64 Mack rears with Rayco works every day still makin me money to pay for the new ones!

Good Luck cause none a the new stuff is without sin thats for sure!

BULLHUSK

[slpwlker]

I own about 18 Freightliners, stay away from the Columbia,and the Cascadia's they are nightmares to work on!! Most of mine are Classic's with Detroit Diesels I would not own another engine cause of the product support Detroit gives you! Now I don't own any but I would like to try a Coronado some of the guys I talk to like em, the last 3 trucks that I have bought have been Western Stars with 14 and 15 Liter Detroit's in them. So far the W-Stars have been working out good except for the M/T weight, they are HEAVY MOTHER'S!! But are built like the old R- Macks and the old A-Cars and they are very E/Z trucks to work on and parts for both trucks are are reasonable and won't put ya otta buzz. like a K-Worth or a P-B (but are also good trucks) The Dealer I use in PA Horwith and the Detroit guys in Jersey both take care of my needs when the Sh_t hits the fan and cover just about all Wr-Tee work without any BS like the Cat guys do. The only wiring prob's I ever had was with my Pete's none with my F-Shakers, the only truck that I had to sell was the W900 Kenworth with that 8 bag air ride! That one the dash did fall out of!! LOL NO KIDDIN!! One rough riddin truck! My guys loved it untill they drove it! My 1988 R- Mack E-350 T2090 4.64 Mack rears with Rayco works every day still makin me money to pay for the new ones!

Good Luck cause none a the new stuff is without sin thats for sure!

BULLHUSK

Coronados are nice/ Rode great turned real good. just had a few squeaks in the sleeper. Liked it alot better then the classic

[Green Dash]

I've driven several models of both Mack and Freightliner trucks in recent years and I would challenge anyone that was unfamiliar with the brands to choose which one featured German engineering.

[rsb502]

The Coronado is basically a long hood Columbia, has the same cab, so does the Century. I agree with all new trucks having their issues and I haven't had a new Mack since 06 so I guess I can't really vouch for anything newer than that. I just have a hard time thinking about paying $150k for a truck that WILL have issues. Actually me and a friend had the conversation about buying an older etech equipped CHN and just rebuilding the whole truck. If you do the math it actually comes out cheaper to buy a million mile CH and put ReMack drive train and new interior in it, that's probably what I would have to do if I had to have another truck. Of course theirs no loans for that and you can't lease it to anyone with an age limit but for an owner operator with some cash it seems feasible.

[2stacksuperdog]

I have heard stories about the dashs falling out of freightshakers.

[bullhusk]

The Coronado is basically a long hood Columbia, has the same cab, so does the Century. I agree with all new trucks having their issues and I haven't had a new Mack since 06 so I guess I can't really vouch for anything newer than that. I just have a hard time thinking about paying $150k for a truck that WILL have issues. Actually me and a friend had the conversation about buying an older etech equipped CHN and just rebuilding the whole truck. If you do the math it actually comes out cheaper to buy a million mile CH and put ReMack drive train and new interior in it, that's probably what I would have to do if I had to have another truck. Of course theirs no loans for that and you can't lease it to anyone with an age limit but for an owner operator with some cash it seems feasible.

84, So far the best thing I have done is build a W-Star 4900 rolling glider, I put a non EGR 575 hp 1800 fp torque 14L Detroit Reman motor in with a OO 13 and 4.10 rears (the rears are factory new) the truck is getting close to 7mpg! and pulls like a Mack! (I had ta say that) I'm gettin another one and doin the same thing! All in it was just under 100G's, thats about 30 to 40 less then a new one! You just need the time and the men to do it but once you've done your first one your gonna want ta do another

BULLHUSK

[Green Dash]

I have heard stories about the dashs falling out of freightshakers.

Green Dash is just my nickname and it was a Sterling. (Yes it really did happen.)

I was looking at a new Mack.(road truck)Mack and Freightliner had the best fuel mileage.But after reading about dash problems and door problems,key lock not working on the 2013's,I am having second thoughts.One posting is having problems with several trucks.I really didn't want to go with Freightliner.I may not have a choice.

We have 5-2013 Pinnacles at my terminal that have been running day and night for 4-5 months. No one has complained about door issues and the only dashboard problem was because a driver left the window down and it rained.

[rsb502]

Sound good Bullhusk, there are a few people in the glider game around here, Fitzgerald being the big one, they get new rolling gliders and build them out with Detroit factory reman engines and Eaton reman transmissions and give a heck of a warranty. I think my buddy said a new Freightliner Coronado with a 500hp Series 60 and an 18 speed was $120,000 so about $30-40 grand cheaper than new with no emissions and theyre about 600# lighter too. If Mack had a CHN Rawhide Glider set up for an ETECH that would be a nice truck, Id look at em awful serious if I went back to the road, Id look at a Granite Dump glider set up for an ETECH too.

[chu613]

WHAT! Ok I have been around Freightshakers for a while both in the seat and the shop andthey are noisy, rattly, the dash rattles and falls apart, the chassis plumbing and wiring sucks and they drive like crap. Best Freightliner ever in recent years was the FLD120 bother set forward and set back axle models, best driving shaker I've ever been in. Now Mack on the other hand has a solid interior from the R model up, excellent plumbing and wiring and all have driven great. I hate to break any bubbles but ANY newer trucks are gonna have issues the fact is all the manufacturers are trying to build more with less and it shows. I still couldn't go Freightliner over Mack even at a $10k savings id still go Mack, the only possible substitute for me would be a KW they are also solid trucks that drive well.

Sorry to break your bubble man but let me ask you something; did you check a Mack cab lately? if not you should and then come back and let's talk about QUALITY; I can assure you that there is no other truck on the market that has a lower level of quality, fit and finish, than Mack; I am a Mack owner and it hurts to say it but it's the truth; I bought my first Mack in 2008; was a 2008 CXU 613 with a 485 MP8 engine in it; I pulled B-train with it (140000 pounds) going head to head with the big guys; I was proud of my truck but I just couldn't ignore the way this truck was put together; I'm talking about exhaust, doors adjustment, doors seals, window seals, hood alignment, cab and sleeper alignment on the frame,( one of the sleeper's squirts was rubbing on the exhaust elbow) interior fit and finish, and the list can go on; this is fact not fiction; all this made me to get rid of the truck cause I just couldn't look at that truck every day the way it was; so after 3 years and 4 months I decided to get another one hoping that this one will not be built on a Friday; I traded mine in for a 2012 CHU 613 RAWHIDE that I ordered; again this truck was a nightmare; the headliner had an air bubble in it (it is the leather one) right next to the speaker; we put the order out for a new one and guess what? the new one came with the same defect but on the other side; how is that for a change? how many trucks do you think they have the same problem and the owners don't care or worse they don't even see it? when the second one came I didn't now what to do or how to react but I was mad; I had to wait for a third one that finally was ok; for some reason the sleeper doesn't have any power plugs; the truck was ordered with a premium sound system which means an amplifier and a bigger speaker under bed, but guess what? the system was not working so I got it in and the dealer discovered that the harness from the radio to the amplifier was missing; and I mean NO HARNESS; had to ordered one and get it done like removing the floor, fridge, the whole nine yards to get the harness from the radio to the under bed area; 10 months down the road and the cab got flooded during a heavy rain fall while the truck was parked at the shop; the seal between the cab and the sleeper failed; at this time the truck had less than 12 months but more than 100000 miles so the 1 year 100000 miles warranty of a brand new truck was a debate; my dealer told me that they have seen this before but not to often and they can talk with Mack about it, but they can't guarantee that Mack will engage in repair due to high nr of hrs. for labor(separation of sleeper and cab) and the fact that the truck is over 100000 miles; I had to work a deal with my dealer and split the bill; and that was a 10 months old truck that cost me 147000 CAD; with that kind of money I could've bought a Kenworth or a Peterbilt that have an exceptional fit and finish, quality, and resale value; yes I could've but I didn't cause I liked Mack; I had to replace both hinges on both jockey boxes doors cause they had a big play on them; how's that sound for a brand new truck? Weeks after the sleeper repair the doors seals came off in some spots leaving wind and water in the cab specially when I was washing the truck; again this is fact not fiction; the only thing that was keep me going was the mechanical side of it; good reliable truck; as of today the truck has 410000 km on and with some exceptions it is a wonderful truck mechanically speaking; I am really disappointed with Mack and this will be my last one; don't tell me that maybe I was out of luck cause is not true; I go thru my dealer's yard at least every two weeks and check things out hoping to see some improvements in quality or something that can make me get back to them in a couple of years; but no the sun is still down on that road; Let's think for a second here; Mack has design this cab back in the 80' when the CH series was launched; the cab is not quite the same now days but most of it is; the lines, the look, they are not that different except the headlight, windows and some other updates; go check the new KW 680 and see that it has a triple sealed door not one seal that falls apart it has 3; see how they've got hundreds if not thousands of drivers to help them design the new truck; that is for me a statement of dedication, perfection, and most off all the will to succeed, to be nr one to be on top; that is serious business, and the sales n's show that; no matter how much we love Mack, they are still at the bottom with 6% market share when KW and Freightliner lead the way. That has to say something no matter what we think and say; I will still check on Mack regularly the way I do maybe...maybe; driving a black RAWHIDE like mine you stand out from the rest of them, guys now me cause I'm the only one with that kind of truck on that road(I do a dedicated run) but I will refuse to by another one if things don't improve.

[2stacksuperdog]

Well if you buy a KW your going to be in the shop more then on the road and Freighliners are just junk and dont have a resale value at all.

[rsb502]

KW's are nice trucks and the Paccar trucks have always had a nicer cab than a Mack, one thing is for sure it was never the Mack cab that sold them it was the Mack chassis and drivetrain, the parts that are working out ok for chu613. I have never been in a Mackvo (2007 up Mack) for very long, only a few runs so i cant comment on them other than the one I drove seemed to be pretty nice and thye fit and finish was good but it was not a high end truck. I think 3P needs to get a copy of chu613's post above to his management in the cab and interior depts, I havent heard much in the line of issues in the chassis dept it always seems to be whats above the frame rails they have problems with. As far as going with a KW instead of a Mack, hey its your money nobody but you is gonna pay for it so you need to be the one thats happy, I think KW's are great trucks, I have issues with the Cummins emissions stuff on my Freightliner all the time but I hear good things about the MX engines so far.

[rsb502]

Oh and Freightliner has market share becuase they will sell trucks cheaper than anyone else and those big companies buying the large numbers of trucks that account for 80% of yearly US truck sales go with the lowest bidder not the best truck. The other 20% are the guys that want what works best for them or they like best, not neccessarily the cheapest they can get when buying 50 or more at a time.

[bullhusk]

I run all F-Liners an W-Stars every day and they spend a lot less time in the shop then my Macks did, thats why I don't by em any more! sorry but I was a Mack man for many years and when they started to go down Mack walked away, just like Cat did with Accert! So I went to brand X and never looked back!

BULLHUSK

[LSI]

Great feedback

[Dirtymilkman]

Anyone saying a KW or Pete have a better fit and finish than the next truck have not drove enough of them. In my opinion, for the price of new trucks they ALL are poor quality. KW's and Pete's are basically cookie cutter chassis and any options you order are bolted over the top. I've seen wiring electrical taped, bolts cross threaded, exhaust clamps crooked and the list goes on. You want factory added pusher axles? Wires and air hoses not plumbed in harnesses, and thing electric taped up. Their cabs leak water too and they're triple sealed because they can't fix the wind noise. And the 680's are no better. As for Mack, I love fit and finish of their drivetrains, even my daycab roofs leak. A/C sucks, heater cooks you out but factory installed options are done nicely. Shakers are just a fleet truck in my opinion and Western Stars are a nice truck too. But all in all any truck is only as good as its dealer, the people that assemble it, the guy that maintains it and the cowboy driving it.