back from alignment

[macattack]

well been struggling with this hop issue i have had for a while. you know the usual hop around 40mph . before 40 and after 40 just fine but around 40 mph there is a hop.

had a 3 axle alignment done. everything is perfect, no adj needed at all. in fact the mechanic at the alignment shop told me it looks like new under there.

anyway he took it for a drive and figures my front tires. i told him they have balance beads installed. anyways he thought maybe to add more beads. so he added a couple more ounces and my hop got worse. so now he took out the beads and added only 16 ounces. hop is back to normal.

he figures that the cheap hercules tires is my problem. i have 42565r225 hercules on the front. he says that they a cheap overseas tire and they are a bitch to balance.

what do you think? maybe i should go to a 445 or a 465?

he says drive it and put some wear on them a see what happens. anyways my truck did pass the safety.

[farmer52]

can't remember but did you check the runout of the tires?

[MACKS]

Sounds like you got it narrowed down to the front tires,I would try a better brand tire.

[RowdyRebel]

I had a bad shimmy in the front end and it turned out one of the "made in the UK" BFG's I had on there was severely out-of-round. Never had that happen with a "Made is USA" Michelin, BFG, or Continental. Sucked buying a new set of steers after only 40K miles...but I didn't want to destroy the new tie rod ends I'd just put on. Wonder if that tire had killed those recently-replaced tie rod ends or if the tie rod ends caused the tire to wear...but that is kinda like asking about the chicken & the egg...

[macattack]

thanks guys. yah pita to have to change out my fronts. hell i just replaced both steers and all my drive tires. all new no retreads.

my fronts might have 500 miles on them.

do you guys think i should go for a 445 or a 465 rather than the 425 fronts. maybe this mr688s needs a bigger tire? i dont know.

[RowdyRebel]

If you've only got 500 miles on the tire, have them checked. If they are out-of-round or have any other manufacturing defect, you SHOULD get a full refund. If the tire shop WON'T refund your money or give you the full purchase price of them as a credit towards another set, I'd be inclined to find another tire shop. Did this front end wobble with your last set of tires too? If it just started 500 miles ago when these were mounted, it's a pretty good bet the tires are the problem.

[slpwlker]

You ever look at the rear tires? I had a lift axle tire that had some funny wear. All 4 at the same time but this one did some funcky stuff. It shook me from 47 to 52 like no tomorrow. Took it off put a used one for the time being settled down alot but coming back as it was a tad smaller and wearing a little odd. so for another month or so it should last and give me time to get the 4 tires for that axle and or 8 drives. so used tires might be in my future for the time being to buy time till I get the eventual 20 tires between the truck and trailer.

Back to your problem 1 tire wearing really weird well give you a bounce

[leversole]

I have had long term issues with my B model as many of you are aware...could never find anything wrong, done a lot of parts replacements etc...the only thing I have not checked is the run out...after issues with my superliner, I am going to check.

Bought new Kelly's for the front (had Yoko's pick out, dealer talked me out of them, not in stock when I showed up), anyway, took my caddillac riding superdog and f**ked it up! Between 52 and 60 bounces like my B...checked the runout and have 4/32s on each! Going to take it and get them "trued"...will report back if that fixes it, I am thinking it will!

[Back In Black Pulling]

when i still worked my truck all ways had to have all new tires trued

[thomastractorsvc]

I know in the past I have made suggestions as to wheel hop and what needs to be checked. Since I painted my frame on my R, I took the fronts off and swapped them side to side, now I have a hop at about 45-50 which I did not have before, I am going to try and turn them on the hub before l swap them back. Years ago when I worked at a tire shop if the tire would not balance we would break it down and turn on the rim 180 degrees and this usually worked if not we would turn it 1/4 turns until it did.

[macattack]

going to check with the tire shop tomorrow and see about returning the fronts and exchange for a higher quality tire.

my rears are also new.

couldnt comment on if truck did this with the original tires, i never got a chance to drive it with the original tires.

i do know that without any balance beads the truck hopped alot worse.

leversole let us know how you make out with trueing the tires.

[rsb502]

I have used Equal tire balancer in the past and had great results, now I use CounterAct tire balancer and it works even better, I use their chart and on a cheaper tire I will get a bag that is 2 ounces higher than recommended for that size tire, I think my front 11R24's called for 10oz but I went with 12 and they are SMOOOOOTH. I am a huge fan of truing a tire also, I had all the steer tires on the trucks up to this last set trued and between that and the balancer in the tires they ride great. thomastractorsvc I have always heard from tire guys that if you swap thte direction of a broken in steer tire you can break a belt and get a bounce, I was always told if I wanted to swap sides with steers to take em off the wheel and move them over running the same direction.

macattack, youve been fighting this hop issue for a while, Id love to see you get it fixed but the odds are against you in a low cab forward garbage truck with heavy axles and spoke wheels, theres just a lot of weight and a lot of room for issues. I would try to true the tires you have on there now, make sure you have enough balancer in them either counteract or equal (use their chart), make sure they are running straight on the spoke hubs and then have them trued and see what you get.

[rsb502]

http://www.tirebalancingbeads.com/sizing-chart/

heres counter actgs chart, the weights are the same for both, it shows 14oz for 425's, Id do 14 or 16 the guy I called at counteract told me goin up 2 ounces wont hurt anything since part of the balancers job is to control hop by moving with the tire.

[thomastractorsvc]

84Superdog

My tires are near new with less than 500 miles, they are also tube type radials 10.00 x 20 Michelins, I don't think they would be considered broke in. One thing when it comes to tire guys there seems to be a lot of conjecture, most don't receive any factory training or read the instructions so they base their opinions off the guy who has worked there the longest which is not always a good idea. The average tire guy will not always look at failure analysis reports or anything that talks about material breakdown, belt failure, shock damage etc....

I have worked at and frequented many truck and automotive tire places and the most tire techs get a few minutes of OJT on how to use the tools and are turned loose. We have all discussed lock ring tires on here but if you take them to a tire shop 95% wont touch them. Another is ring spacers on the Dayton style wheels, most tire techs don't know anything about ring spacers. Most only know pilot hubs and some cant tell the difference between them and buds, let alone how much to properly tighten them. How many Daytons have you had to use a 1" impact because the were over tightened? or how to true they were when mounted.

[2stacksuperdog]

We had a flat on our triaxle so we stopped at our local Goodyear dealer where we buy all our tires and he had a new kid change it. The kid put everything back together and worked to make sure the tires were perfect and didn't wobble when you spun them. he was a very happy guy when he got done because it was the first time he ever got it perfect.

[Phase 1]

Do you have or can you borrow some wheels and tires to try on the front just to diagnose it? Or swap wheels front and rear and see what happens.

[macattack]

thanks guys. spoke to the tire shop where i purchased the hercules and he said he will try and see if he can return them.

anyways 84 superdog you stated it might be a loosing battle do you think i should try a front air suspension kit. these mr688s dont have front shocks either.

i never thought of rotating the tire on the rim.. sounds like it might be an idea. do you think i could just turn the rim and tire maybe 1/4 or 1/2 turn. yhis way i dont have to dismount the tire from the rim?

[rsb502]

thanks guys. spoke to the tire shop where i purchased the hercules and he said he will try and see if he can return them.

anyways 84 superdog you stated it might be a loosing battle do you think i should try a front air suspension kit. these mr688s dont have front shocks either.

i never thought of rotating the tire on the rim.. sounds like it might be an idea. do you think i could just turn the rim and tire maybe 1/4 or 1/2 turn. yhis way i dont have to dismount the tire from the rim?

it sucks but ive had to run a bouncing truck before too just because it cost more money to keep fighting it thatn it was worth, I would make sure the balancer was right and maybe swap it out for 2 oz over and have them trued that will be your best shot at getting them smooth on your application. the MR guys I have always talked to aid they were bouncers I have never driven one so I have no idea but with htat much weight up front and no shocks it cant be easy to keep em smooth, you can get some shocks to put on it, surely there are p./ns out there for the mouning studs and shocks from another mr, or just make your own.

[thomastractorsvc]

thanks guys. spoke to the tire shop where i purchased the hercules and he said he will try and see if he can return them.

anyways 84 superdog you stated it might be a loosing battle do you think i should try a front air suspension kit. these mr688s dont have front shocks either.

i never thought of rotating the tire on the rim.. sounds like it might be an idea. do you think i could just turn the rim and tire maybe 1/4 or 1/2 turn. yhis way i dont have to dismount the tire from the rim?

I always seem to have more time than money so I am going to loosen and just rotate 180 degrees it on the hub. Is there a place that does spin balancing on the truck?

[macattack]

thanks again guys. gonna try rotating 180 and see what happens. anybody have part numbers for a shock add on kit?

[Vladislav]

I put 2 steer tires on 24'5 Alcoas just a couple weeks ago.

They were new but made in China.

I use to observe a wheel when spinning on a balansing bench.

Those were relatively round, about 2-3 mm out of.

One of them needed about 75 and 125 grams of additional weight (sorry, not ready to tell in Oz)

The other one asked 150/300g.

The tire guy took the tire free from the rim just on the sides, haven't got it out of, and turned over 180.

Back on a balanser and it worked out with 50/150.

I tried to ride them on my R-model and found nothing wrong up to 70 mph.

[macattack]

does any other mr owners have part numbers for a shock add on kit. my mr688s does not have front shocks and i am thinking of adding, but need part numbers or pics.

thanks

[lucerne tractor]

I always have my steers spin balance and rotate every 10 t0 12k, they stay new for a long time.

Took my truck in when I first got it for 3 axle align with the best equipment and tech in the area. He set everything and all was perfect according to him. Six week later I was back with a slight cup in my drivers front, he checked it all again and all was fine, had two shops, one Mack dealer and one TA check it on the road and all was fine. Made it home after six more weeks, took it to my shop, the 1000.00 tire was ruined, so the other was no good to me, the wheel bearing was broke in pieces and the king pin bushings were shot so bad the king pin was ruined. Bounced at 45 to 52 or 53 then was fine, at the end I really noticed it on downhill curved on ramps, it really bounced. Maybe you should lift the truck and check it with a big bar? Mechanics today, I don't know?

[rsb502]

Macattack, if you go to a Mack parts dept and find an older Mack parts guy, like Barry they can put in a change request to Mack that will give them the p/n's needed to add shocks to the front of the truck, or like I stated before just make the brackets for the axle and put a stud or long bolt in the frame for the top, I think Gabriel or Monroe used to make a bolt on shock kit for early big trucks that was a lower bracket that clamped to the spring behind the axle and you put a stud in the frame, the kit had measurements needed.

[macattack]

thanks guys. gonna check out the monroe and gabriel shock sites see about those kits.

yah some mechanics today, when i first took it in for a safety they replaced brakes, air valves, u joints etc.... and 4000.00 later it was done. brought the truck home and one day later i noticed a broken rear leaf spring???

sometimes best to check yourself i guess.