Rear Seal In A Triplex Tranny

[Freightrain]

Ok, maybe there's nothing I can do with it?

Rear seal on the transmission is seeping pretty good on the ol B. I've pulled the driveshaft cause I'm replacing pinion seal also. I did the pinion like 6 yrs ago but it's starting again.

The tranny I've never been in to, but not sure there is actually a seal or what? I've pulled the companion flange apart to find a large castle nut hidden inside. "IF" I pull the nut and slide the flange off will I find a seal? Is it a simple replacement? Not sure it will do alot of good as it is a 50 yr old tranny and how tight are the bearings/shafts? Sure would like to clean up a couple of the leaks.

I've tried for a couple nights now to get pinion nut loose...ain't happ'n yet. 5 ft cheater bar...still ain't happ'n. It was loose when I bought truck, so it came right apart when I put first seal in. I turned it one more notch on castle nut and now it's locked pretty tight. Great. Might have to invest in a 3/4 drive impact to give it a bit more umph.

I'd love to tear into tranny and rebuild it, but ain't happening. Still like to find a double over quad box. Then a place to put it in.

[95k1500]

My triplex is coming apart for the same reasons...to seal some leaks. Haven't got to the rear of trans yet to tell you if there is a seal or not. If I get there this weekend I will let you know what I find.

Dave

[theakerstwo]

Ok, maybe there's nothing I can do with it?

Rear seal on the transmission is seeping pretty good on the ol B. I've pulled the driveshaft cause I'm replacing pinion seal also. I did the pinion like 6 yrs ago but it's starting again.

The tranny I've never been in to, but not sure there is actually a seal or what? I've pulled the companion flange apart to find a large castle nut hidden inside. "IF" I pull the nut and slide the flange off will I find a seal? Is it a simple replacement? Not sure it will do alot of good as it is a 50 yr old tranny and how tight are the bearings/shafts? Sure would like to clean up a couple of the leaks.

I've tried for a couple nights now to get pinion nut loose...ain't happ'n yet. 5 ft cheater bar...still ain't happ'n. It was loose when I bought truck, so it came right apart when I put first seal in. I turned it one more notch on castle nut and now it's locked pretty tight. Great. Might have to invest in a 3/4 drive impact to give it a bit more umph.

I'd love to tear into tranny and rebuild it, but ain't happening. Still like to find a double over quad box. Then a place to put it in.

[/quoteI have seen people but would use a 3/4 impact first but some will take a breaker bar and put on a shocket and lay aganst the frame and put trans in reverse and use starter to break nut.

[Freightrain]

Good idea Glenn. If Dave finds out what's behind door #1, I'll proceed. Wish I had a book on these things. Don't want to make a mistake and HAVE to pull tranny to put back together!!! That would not be a good thing. I've got a couple months before truck is going anywhere so it's not a major deal, yet.

[terry]

When you get the nut and yoke off you can unbolt the rear cover and put the seal in on the bench, alot easier. when you slide the cover off there are two tapered bearings facing each other with a spacer in the middle, smaller spacers as the bearings wear down to set the preload. At the very most the rear bearing might slide off no problem, just be sure spacer is in there when you reassemble. Terry

[gvam]

Hi Freightrain

I just got hold of a couple service manuals and would be glad to copy and send any of the pages that you might need. You have a TRTL-72?

[Freightrain]

Well, duh.........I got the cobwebs outta my head and dug up my manual I got years back and found a layout of Duplex. That's close enough to give me an idea of what's in there. Terry, I see the layout of the twin bearings. Thanks for the heads up, and the offer gvam.

One question: How the HECK did they get that cotter pin in the nut? It's barely enough room for socket in that companion flange area let alone enough to pin in there? I know I can get it ripped out, but getting new one back in?? That will be a real trick.

Got my hands on 3/4" impact, picked up 1/2" line to power it from my compressor so after some quick plumbing I'll fire it up and see if I can get it apart. Love to get the little leaks all fixed up. I think I'll work on the valve covers again next. Did them 5 yrs ago and they've got to leak'n again pretty good. What kinda glue do you guys use to seal this up? Apparently the Ultra silicone I used didnt hold up. Should I use a hardening style gasket maker?

Thanks guys.

[skip]

Well, duh.........I got the cobwebs outta my head and dug up my manual I got years back and found a layout of Duplex. That's close enough to give me an idea of what's in there. Terry, I see the layout of the twin bearings. Thanks for the heads up, and the offer gvam.

One question: How the HECK did they get that cotter pin in the nut? It's barely enough room for socket in that companion flange area let alone enough to pin in there? I know I can get it ripped out, but getting new one back in?? That will be a real trick.

Got my hands on 3/4" impact, picked up 1/2" line to power it from my compressor so after some quick plumbing I'll fire it up and see if I can get it apart. Love to get the little leaks all fixed up. I think I'll work on the valve covers again next. Did them 5 yrs ago and they've got to leak'n again pretty good. What kinda glue do you guys use to seal this up? Apparently the Ultra silicone I used didnt hold up. Should I use a hardening style gasket maker?

Thanks guys.

About the valve covers, Im guessing you have a 673 engine? I couldnt get them to seal with silastic so I use contact cement to glue them to the lids, then put them on the head dry. If you use this way, you have to put the glue on the lid and the gasket and leave it for 15 minutes or so, until the glue has almost cured. You dont want it wet when you put the 2 surfaces together. You only get one chance to stick them together so you have to have them lined up properly. Also when you put the lids on, you can use an extra fibre washer on the hold down bolt to get a bit more crush. I usually put silastic around the bolt head when Ive finished tightening them up. Hope it goes well for you mate. Cheers, Skip.

[Freightrain]

Well, got the valve covers off, ya it's a 673 n/a. The bolt gaskets were gone(pretty much), thus I think the problem why it was leaking. It was seeping around the gasket and even worse around the bolts and down draft tube mounts. I know I have a big pile of gaskets, hopefully I have bolt rings too. Doubling them up was on my list, plus I was going to check gasket crush before making them permanent.

I was missing one fitting to adapt air lines, so guess I'll work on seals tomorrow. I did get the cotter pin out of tranny, though not sure how I'll get new one in? Time will tell. Really looking forward to getting this thing DRIED up some.

[terry]

The only way i got the cotter pins in was to bend them in a curve and work them in, it is tough but can be done! Terry

[95k1500]

I was unable to get the rear of my trans apart this weekend...too many other things. When I did finally get out to the shop realized that I did not have a socket that big- the book says 2 3/4. Thats the problem of being a car mechanic...most cars don't have stuff that big...so not one in the tool box!LOL! Have to go talk to the tool man this week and add one to the arsenal!

Dave

[Freightrain]

Mine takes 2 1/4" socket. Fits both the rear pinion and tranny nut.

I got the pinion apart this afternoon, but the tranny nut is being a bit more stubborn. Tried heating a few times(like when I did the pinion), but can't get it to budge. I gave up and will try again Tues night.

I bought my socket from Sears way back in '01 when did pinion first time. It didn't seem to mind the 3/4" drive impact I used today and it's not a impact socket. That's the strange thing, when I got pinion apart I already put a speedy sleeve on it the last time. It had two good marks from seal in it so I guess I'll have to put another sleeve on it. I can't really figure why it would tear up a sleeve in only 6 yrs. I was thinking, maybe the fact the rear end might have been a bit low on grease, thus allowing it to run too dry and thus burn it up? OR, was it the fact I run it too "fast" all the time and that is why it burnt up. Can't really think that was the issue, but I'm just thinking out loud.

[95k1500]

Finally got the tools and the time to get the rear of the trans apart. Mine came apart easy with a 3/4 impact wrench. Removed the yoke and then the rear cover and the seal is inside of the cover. Looks easy enough...just need to find a seal now.

Dave

[95k1500]

Well forget the seal for now. After separating the trans for cleaning and resealing, the rear case cracked upon installation...UGH!! There was already a crack in the top of the case that had been repaired at some time, so it was already weak. Anyway a costly mistake! Luckily I know a guy that I can get a trans from. Two steps forward, about eighteen back, and a few sideways!!

[Freightrain]

Wow....you're luckier them me...sorta. I've spend days and days and can't get mine apart. Heat and 3/4" impact has NO affect at all.

Bummer yours is broke, hopefully mine doesn't run into problems like that.

When and IF I get mine apart I might be looking for a speedo gear. What's yours like? I definitely need the driven gear(little pencil part), but since I've stripped two of them so far I think the gear on shaft might be damaged? Won't know til I get it apart.....IF I get it apart.

[95k1500]

The speedo gear in the broken unit looks ok. If the one in the replacement trans is ok, I can hook you up. Will keep you posted.

Dave

[Freightrain]

What I learned also, is apparently my tranny is an older version then yours? Being mine has 2 1/4" socket and yours 2 3/4". Hopefully that doesn't change the speedo parts?

Time will tell.

[95k1500]

Mine was actually a 2 1/4 socket...book said otherwise. So they are probably the same.

Dave

[Freightrain]

Well, using 1" impact it STILL won't come loose!

Oh boy..........this is going to be fun!

[MidniteMechanic]

Use more heat or slice it with the torch.

[Freightrain]

IT'S OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, sorry. Just been a long two weeks of messing with it.

After giving up yesterday, I sprayed it with penetrating oil. I went out this morning and it near fell off with my fingers. Yes!

So, after I get the little tailhousing off I'll be replacing the seal.

I do need both speedo gears though, as the drive gear is chipped pretty bad and is probably why it tore up the driven gear.

Drive gear: SW447250 5 tooth

Driven gear: 154-P1 13 tooth

I think part of the problem with the leak is the fact the rear bearings are loose. I can't get enough umph to see slop in shaft, but I left the tailhousing off and installed the flange again. I could move the rollers a bit on the rear bearing. This is telling me that I need to remove some shim. There is one large shim and one .004 shim. Not sure if .004 will be enough, and if I need more I can surface grind the thick one, leaving the .004 to add back in if need be. I don't have any books to show what is what and since tranny is full of thick grease I can't check rotational torque. I think this might have something to do with why speedo stripped out. If the shaft was walking, then the gear would be out of location, causing mis alignment and possible problems(chips in teeth).

I know the tranny has some slop in main box, as there is an identical double bearing arrangement on the back of it. Don't think I can go that deep and fix it too?

Thanks guys.

[Rob]

IT'S OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, sorry. Just been a long two weeks of messing with it.

After giving up yesterday, I sprayed it with penetrating oil. I went out this morning and it near fell off with my fingers. Yes!

So, after I get the little tailhousing off I'll be replacing the seal.

I do need both speedo gears though, as the drive gear is chipped pretty bad and is probably why it tore up the driven gear.

Drive gear: SW447250 5 tooth

Driven gear: 154-P1 13 tooth

I think part of the problem with the leak is the fact the rear bearings are loose. I can't get enough umph to see slop in shaft, but I left the tailhousing off and installed the flange again. I could move the rollers a bit on the rear bearing. This is telling me that I need to remove some shim. There is one large shim and one .004 shim. Not sure if .004 will be enough, and if I need more I can surface grind the thick one, leaving the .004 to add back in if need be. I don't have any books to show what is what and since tranny is full of thick grease I can't check rotational torque. I think this might have something to do with why speedo stripped out. If the shaft was walking, then the gear would be out of location, causing mis alignment and possible problems(chips in teeth).

I know the tranny has some slop in main box, as there is an identical double bearing arrangement on the back of it. Don't think I can go that deep and fix it too?

Thanks guys.

Hey Larry, is there any chance you could machine a reluctor ring and shrink it onto the drive gear for the speedometer? Then you could use a newer style pulse counter type. It wouldn't be original, but would be accurate. I can't remember off the top of my head the tooth count you would need, but 8 thousand pulses per mile is very standard input to speedometers these days. Now Ford has to be 4 thousand per mile to be different!

Rob

[Freightrain]

Here's the crazy part Rob. The speedo gear is only held by compression from rear nut, no splines or the such.

I suppose I could make a ring and as long as it's as thick as the original part, it could easily replace it. Then I would need to figure a way to get sending unit near it. Since the housing is off, I suppose I could machine/weld if needed.

The speedo was always like 8 mph off anyway, so I was hoping to get it closer. I was thinking to mount a ring on flange or such and do the same thing. This would be better though, and since I have it apart would be an easy modification.

I'd like to keep the stock speedo(for the original look), but would love to change over to electronic control so I could calibrate it. Never really looked into it, so not sure what is out there. Likely nothing cheap or easy that would work with my stock speedo.

[Rob]

Here's the crazy part Rob. The speedo gear is only held by compression from rear nut, no splines or the such.

I suppose I could make a ring and as long as it's as thick as the original part, it could easily replace it. Then I would need to figure a way to get sending unit near it. Since the housing is off, I suppose I could machine/weld if needed.

The speedo was always like 8 mph off anyway, so I was hoping to get it closer. I was thinking to mount a ring on flange or such and do the same thing. This would be better though, and since I have it apart would be an easy modification.

I'd like to keep the stock speedo(for the original look), but would love to change over to electronic control so I could calibrate it. Never really looked into it, so not sure what is out there. Likely nothing cheap or easy that would work with my stock speedo.

I couldn't remember if the driving gear was a "crush", or friction type setup, or machined to the shaft. I would use a 3-5/8's speedometer "donor unit" and install your original face onto it, or the new "guts" into your old case. I've seen several electronic movements that would fit inside the original case. I think most any 270 degree movement would work adequately, and it could be biased, or slewed to read correctly.

If you were to manufacture the correct gear for the output shaft with teeth, you could use a "hall effect" pickup to drive the new speedometer. The ones I use on gensets have an adjustment range of near 4 inches for depth, and are threaded full length. I drill the pilot hole aimed at the corresponding gear, counterbore a flat spot into the housing about 1-1/8" for the locknut to bear against, and thread the hole 3/4-16 to install the sender. Apply your 12VDC, (reference voltage) via the keyswitch, and use the remaining wire as an input to the new electronic speedometer.

This would actually work pretty slick. The hardest part is getting the ratios within the window, (so to speak) of the adjustment capability of the new speedometer circuitry.

Just some thought process need to be applied. I'll go further if you are seriously considering it.

Rob

[Freightrain]

That sounds very do-able Rob. I could go off the passenger side since the drivers side has the hole for original gear assy. Machining is no problem, I could make the gear(reluctor ring), just need to know how many teeth to put on it. I have access at work to super spacer to rotate part accurately to space teeth.

Now, getting a speedo and making it fit my old case? That would take some work. Not sure how to uncrimp face to get them apart. I do have an extra old one that stopped working so I have a sample to work with. How new of speedo do I need to find to get guts for electric version?