New Mack motors

[james j neiweem]

Most American companies don't think long term like the Europeons and Japanese. Americans are just in it to turn a buck. The Europeons and Japanese think survival.

[MightyFruit Trucking]

What type of dump truck work you do? How did you find work and stay busy?

[41180]

I'm sorry but you are wrong on the Detroit engines, the top head an value design as well as the piston and the Detroit electronics has been around long before D B took them over, if anything they learned from us! There MB 4000 motor was Redone more like the US Detroit using there transposed valves as well as the Detroit electronics ,the whole top end of the motor is based on the Series 60 12.7 motor, but they now use a common rail fuel system (i think Mercedes) instead of the Detroit unit injectors

Bullhusk

How come on a post on another topic I saw on here k scarbel mentions the dd 15 and 16 as being Benz on472 and 473 engines ?

[bullhusk]

How come on a post on another topic I saw on here k scarbel mentions the dd 15 and 16 as being Benz on472 and 473 engines ?

That I cannot answer but what I can tell you is that my 12.7 Detroit's as far back as 1990 to have the very same head design as the new Detroit diesels.And that was long befor MB took over, The old Detroit's were designed without pushrods so the valves could be transposed or put on the same side as there manifold was, Detroit is now using Mercedes, common rail fuel system as opposed to their unit injector system that goes as far back as the two cycle engines Also I have been told that the Mercedes computer system was scrapped for the US Detroit computer system I don't know how true this is but I have been told that from a service manager at one of the Freightliner dealerships.Kscarbl Adds a lot of useful information to this Mack site and I do not have an ax to grind with this man I think that he has been very helpful to the website it's just that I have been inside of these motors new and old and I can just tell you the Engine as well old series 55 was the older MB 4000 MB motor and it was nothing like the new 13 15 an16 liter motors , These new motors are based on the older Detroit diesel design which was designed by our US engineers when Roger Penske owned the company. I also think that Detroit's electronics were far better then Mercedes electronics as you know Detroit also used their electronics on internationals DT 466 Engine as well! As you can probably tell by now I'm big Detroit diesel fan and I also wish that Mercedes would've bought out Mack truck instead of Volvo because I truly think that Mercedes gives the US engineers a lot more Input towards the design of their trucks as well as their motors Volvo on the other hand seems to think that we don't know too much so they are going to be the teacher and we the US engineers are the students

Bullhusk

[41180]

i wasnt trying to be a jerk bullhusk i was just asking a question ? ill tell you i dont know anything about detroit engines other than the old 4~53 we have in our skidder. i will say ive heard good things about the new detroits . we were looking at freightliners and western stars before we bought our first titan but had problems with the sales people at our local freightliner dealer. they kept specing us trucks with cummins engines that we didnt want . we wanted the detroit but they kept pushing cummins for some some reason so we just went with the mack because atleast we have a long 25 year relationship with our mack service dealer and knew if we had alot of problems with the new truck that our dealer would help us out. we had a couple western stars before and the dealer was always hard to work with.

[bullhusk]

Didn't think that at all, just covering my bases it's all good!!

Bullhusk

[Dirtymilkman]

Logtruckman, how's the titan been for you? Any troubles? Mpg? I am ordering one.....I think

[MightyFruit Trucking]

I was thinking on buying a new dump truck with a mp8 445 hp! So tell me are these good motors and what's the pro and cons of this motor!

[41180]

our titans have been good dirtymilkman. we love them . no problems with the engine or electronics yet. our first one has 80k miles on it about 4000 engine hours . they get about 4.2 mpg but thats including running the log loader.

[Bullheaded]

Holy crap......get over it! Volvo SAVED Mack. Mack was dying a quick death with the junk they were building from 2000 to 2006.

No, the new "Volvo's" will never be like the pre 90's Mack's........but nothing else will ever be as good either. It's a new world. Get used to your mass produced junk and be happy we have what we have.

[kscarbel]

Holy crap......get over it! Volvo SAVED Mack. Mack was dying a quick death with the junk they were building from 2000 to 2006.

No, the new "Volvo's" will never be like the pre 90's Mack's........but nothing else will ever be as good either. It's a new world. Get used to your mass produced junk and be happy we have what we have.

I don't think its a matter of "getting over" something.

Personally, I don't for a moment feel that Volvo saved Mack. In fact, Volvo has erased Mack for the most part in every conceiveable way. The Swedes at Volvo are opportunist without morals.

Volvo used their (failed) merger plan with Renault to get their hands on Mack, to acquire more North American market share (as they had with White and GMC).

Had Volvo NOT been in the picture, and had Mack been put up for sale, there would have been several good American companies in line to make an offer. And looking at what has become of Mack, now merely a nameplate on a Volvo chassis, I would have preferred a US company to have bought Mack (had a situation developed at Mack Trucks which led to a sale)

[bullhusk]

Holy crap......get over it! Volvo SAVED Mack. Mack was dying a quick death with the junk they were building from 2000 to 2006.

No, the new "Volvo's" will never be like the pre 90's Mack's........but nothing else will ever be as good either. It's a new world. Get used to your mass produced junk and be happy we have what we have.

I can't say if the new Volvo/Mack is mass produced junk because I don't own one, but with that being said, I did in fact own Mack's at one time and was not too happy with them! Being in the cement haulin business is tough enough with trucks that run and service us well and they would be Freightliner Classics an Western Star 4900's with Detroit Diesel's and I will say they don't perform like mass produced junk so We are very happy with them. Being in business in today's economy one should not pay a lot of money to be happy to to be unhappy to be happy to have what we have!

BULLHUSK

[41180]

my advice to anyone looking to buy a new truck of any make or model would be to go talk to a owner or owners of some small fleets in your area and ask them how they like there trucks and what positive and negatives experiences thyve had with there trucks that are similiar to what your looking at buying. dont talk to people that dont own what you wannt to buy. if you listen to anecdotal advice your gonna hear more bad than good because bad news travels faste than good news. ive talked to people that own and drive new macks and most of the feedback is positive especially compared to the 2003 thru 2007 macks.

[Dirtymilkman]

So true logman, kind of like the ford vs. Chevy. They all have problems but they're all good too.

[Bullheaded]

True....maybe an American outfit would have bought them and maybe it COULD have been better. Or maybe we could have ended up with more super reliable E7 E-Techs that killed off all of Macks market share and customer loyalty like in the early 2000's......that Mack is just starting to get back.

Or maybe we could have got the same quality my 2013 Western Star was built with in Carolina, which is far below the build quality of my Mexican built 2012 Freightliner Coranado SD.

[bullhusk]

I think another big thing today is P.S.R. Product service rep. Foly cat gave me nothing but a bill and a hard time! Keystone Mack did the same! Now... Maybe you say ok Cat and Mack wouldn't Warranty there product ??? Well then the dealer should Step up to the plate and fight for you!! No?? Well I've said it before on this site an ill say it again, the Freightliner dealer that I buy from (Horwith in Northampton Pa) a Family operation like our company has always helped us out somehow when the Warranty had expired a short time after our failure or would help out on the labor They do what they have to do within reason to keep you as a customer.

BULLHUSK

[kscarbel]

Horwith in Northampton have been exceptionally fine people for years and years.

But having said that, I can tell you that Mack Trucks always stood behind their product. In my MANY years with the company, we never left a customer hanging. When a design needed improvement, we acknowledged that, took action and solved the customer's problem. Our district service representatives, engineers in their own right that worked should-to-shoulder with the engineers in Allentown and Hagerstown, were the best in the industry. It was that atmosphere that allowed us to deliver pedigreed performance. That's the only right way to do long-term business with a customer, as Mr. Zenon C.R. Hansen would tell you. Mack Trucks was like a massive family from east coast to west - we had our customer's backs covered. Call it Bulldog Protection, and/or Mack family pride.

But of course, I'm speaking of the past pre-Volvo. It's a whole new deal now. The Mack distributor, as we knew it, is a thing of the past.

[41180]

a truck is only as good as its dealer. the biggest reAson we stayed with macks is the our service dealer stateline truck service in fitzwilliam nh. they always fit us in and do there best to stand by the product. we buy the trucks from ballard mack in massachusetts because the salesman greg day always called us back and spec the trucks like we wanted them. every other dealer mack and others didnt call us back and or tries to sell something we didnt want. there was one smal freightliner dealer out in ny i think its called mohawk valley. he is a good guy he tried to sell us a truck and listened to what we wanted but its just to far away from us so we bought the titans. our local freightliner dealer was awful they wouldnt call us back and when they did get in touch they tried to make us buy a cummins powered truck .

[LewisHoskins1]

Ok I have read all what you have said I am not a fan of Volvo know live in Australia and both trucks built in same factory my dad di his trade at Mack back home in the USA I have tatto on my arm the dog and all and I am 50 I drive one of the new mp and it is not bad it gets long well guys it still has the act look inside and out and they cheaper to buy gee now kw have a daf motor in them come on as long as they keep people working that is the Maine thing

[mack maintainer]

I have worked on a bunch of newer Volvo A25D off road dump trucks and the motors are almost identical to what's in my mack trucks. They eve sound the same!

[bullhusk]

I think the big thing here with Volvo is that it seems like they look down on the US trucks and that they are here to teach us how to build a real truck. Now this is just the way I see it so don't think I hate Volvo but what they did to White Motors an Autocar an now with Mack just look at the way they handle themselves, they took the greatest name in trucks Mack 'Built like A Mack Truck' and are tryin to make it into a Volvo and the proof is in the pudding all ya have to do is taste it! Now did anyone ever hear this...'Built like a Volvo Truck' NO!! And you never will!! Volvo builds trucks all over the world but they have never built trucks for the US market and that my friends is the proving grounds for heavy trucks, just put a new Volvo and an older Mack Superliner or a Brockway 360U with a V-12 loaded on 6 axels gross em with 120,000 like the old days and run em from Brooklyn to East Hampton LI every day or up an down the NYS thru. for one month and then lets see who wins?? And at the end of that month have all the Volvo guys on one side and all the old timers (the ones that are left) from Mack and Brockway on the other side, and then let's see who starts takin notes??? Any body want to guess??

BULLHUSK

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND THE TRUCKS THAT BUILT AMERICA AND THE BULL DOGS THAT HELPED WIN WW-1

[41180]

ill sign up for the new school . ill take a one of our titans with an mp 10 555 ill load it to 150k lbs and ill bet id haul more loads in month than the old school guys. id even take a new volvo vnl day cab with a 550 d16 and do the same. then ill take an chu with an mp 8 505 and do the same .. and ill have a nice heater air conditioner and satellite radio and air ride suspension

[41180]

i have the utmost respect for the older drivers and the older trucks they were great american iron and the drivers that drove the triplex and quadplex and pulled heavy weight with 200 hp engines and no jake brakes , but the new stuff is also nice and ive heard a few whoppers from some old timers as to how fast there trucks would pull mountains and how much weight they would have on. alot of it doesnt add up. a gentleman in his 70s told me he had a r 700 with a 325 hp mack v8 and a 6 spd . he said he pulled a hill at 40 mph with 120k lbs with that truck that i pulled at 25 mph with an e9 500 lwith an 18spd loaded at 105k lbs. so i know that his story is embelished. my dad pulled the hill with a 1970 white with a 318 8v71 loaded to 85k lbs at 10 mph .

[kscarbel2]

If you feel that you are happy with your Volvo Titans, then I have to respect your feelings. Volvo builds an respectable truck.

But as an American, I have a serious issue with Volvo, the foreign truckmaker that acquired the U.S. truckmaking icon Mack Trucks, indeed "The Greatest Name in Trucks", and shut the Mack Truck company down.

I also have a serious problem with the United States Department of Justice for allowing Sweden's Volvo Group to acquire Mack Trucks.

Renault invested in Mack and encouraged the company to continue on a path of self development (while the two companies smartly seized valid opportunities were synergies could be identified).

But Volvo Group, once getting their hands on Mack, promptly shut the company down.

Please don't mention the EGR Mack engine issues to me, because all the US (and global) engine makers had challenges of one form or another. And looking at engine issues historically, there isn't a heavy truck diesel engine maker in the world that didn't have issues at one time or another. Had Mack Trucks remained an independently operating concern, there's little doubt the company's next generation of powertrains would have impressed. We had camshaft and lifter problems in the past, but did that mean the Maxidyne was a bad engine? No. You won't find a better vertically-integrated truckmaker than the former Mack Trucks.

[bullhusk]

ill sign up for the new school . ill take a one of our titans with an mp 10 555 ill load it to 150k lbs and ill bet id haul more loads in month than the old school guys. id even take a new volvo vnl day cab with a 550 d16 and do the same. then ill take an chu with an mp 8 505 and do the same .. and ill have a nice heater air conditioner and satellite radio and air ride suspension

And how long before you have a computer problem?? Or a censor goes bad an you gotta get towed off the cross Bronx and the Brock an Superliner go by an yell out the rolled down window with the wing vents open 'there's always hope when you can fix it with wire an rope!!' See ya!! Of course you will not hear the guy yellin from the 360U LOL There was a write up a few years ago in I think it was Overdrive about company drivers leaving there Volvo's on the side of the road an walkin off the job cause they broke down so much they couldn't make any money! Any remember the art.?

BULLHUSK