New Mack motors

[mack mhe9]

So does that mean peterbilt is gone cause Paccar owns them? Lol

If I'm not mistaken paccar is to Pete and Kw like GM is to Chevy and Caddy.

Volvos to Mack wild be like Chrysler buying Chevy.

[39 Baby Mack]

So does that mean peterbilt is gone cause Paccar owns them? Lol

If that be the case Peterbilt has been gone a long time, they've been part of Paccar since 1958.

Kenworth has been part of Paccar since 1944.

Ron

[kscarbel]

You sound like one of those hard headed Allentown old Mack guys. Im going to guess you were an engineer or above and refused to change your old Mack ways. You seem like a very intelligent guy, why so much disgust?

I said "Mack Trucks is no longer "around". It was purchased by foreign truckmaker Volvo in 2000. Only the nameplate is still around, affixed to North American market Volvo truck platforms".

What aspect of that fact do you not comprehend?

Those "hard headed Allentown old Mack guys" engineered and built the best trucks that our great country and the world ever knew. Obviously you never had the privilege of working in Allentown - "the truck capital of the world".

In your critical statement "an engineer or above and refused to change your old Mack ways", are you suggesting the "old Mack ways" that led to such cutting edge products as the R-model, CH and MH Ultra-Liner were wrong?

As the late Zenon C.R. Hansen would say, employment at Mack Trucks wasn't a job, rather it was a way of life. But you understand none of that and thus would not be suitable for employment at the former Mack Trucks. You strike me as a Volvo kind-of-person.

[farmer52]

It is what it is! Can we just move on?

P.S. If you don't like it, buy Mack back from Volvo!

[james j neiweem]

How many people are on the watts Webb site? Let's say 1000. Then. 1000x100=100,000. Let's say10,000 then 10,000x100=1,000,000. Seems like we run out of enough members pretty quickly. Additionally Volvo would have to put it up for sale. What would the new mack use for components. Engine _Cummins

Transmissions-mack-Eaton-Allison ,suspensions-camel back-hendrickson, rears-mediator-Eaton. Not much different than the. Competition. At least they would have their own independent engineering section.

[DailyDiesel]

You strike me as a Volvo kind-of-person.

OUCH!

[41180]

how many times has this topic came up on tis site ? I think its beat to death. on one side you have the hate Volvo no matter what they do. they bury there head in the sand refuse to even try a new mack product we did the opposite we tried a new mack and likeit and bought a second and a third. you have a group of people on here that will refuse to even admit that the mack mp series is a pretty damn good engine they just don't like them because Volvo owns it. all new trucks have there problems allold trucks had there problems. w hada 1987 mack superliner that had a e6 350 12 speed mack and 44k lb mack rears . the engine ate camshafts like candy the transmission was junk and we blew 3 front rearends in the 6 yrs we owned it so don't say all the oldmacks were great because they were not.

[kscarbel]

on one side you have the hate Volvo no matter what they do. they bury there head in the sand refuse to even try a new mack product we did the opposite we tried a new mack and likeit and bought a second and a third. you have a group of people on here that will refuse to even admit that the mack mp series is a pretty damn good engine they just don't like them because Volvo owns it. all new trucks have there problems allold trucks had there problems.

The Volvo D-Series engines (a.k.a. Mack-branded MP-Series) are decent engines, but much more so in the global market under Euro emissions specs for which they were designed. However, the Volvo D-Series engines do not compare with the offerings from Scania and Benz.

When you say all the new trucks are having engine problems (in the U.S.), we all know how right your are. And again, the reason for that is most of the US market engines were (with the exception of Cummins) originally designed for Euro emissions standards and then later adapted to EPA2010, including the Volvo D11/D13/D16 (Mack MP7/MP8/MP10), Maxxforce 11 and 13 (MAN), Paccar MX-13 (DAF), DD15 (Benz OM472) and DD16 (Benz OM473).

The principal exception is the DD13 (OM471). It was designed specifically for U.S. market EPA2010, and thus is delivering high performance, durability and low cost of operation.

[Challenger]

I said "Mack Trucks is no longer "around". It was purchased by foreign truckmaker Volvo in 2000. Only the nameplate is still around, affixed to North American market Volvo truck platforms".

What aspect of that fact do you not comprehend?

Those "hard headed Allentown old Mack guys" engineered and built the best trucks that our great country and the world ever knew. Obviously you never had the privilege of working in Allentown - "the truck capital of the world".

In your critical statement "an engineer or above and refused to change your old Mack ways", are you suggesting the "old Mack ways" that led to such cutting edge products as the R-model, CH and MH Ultra-Liner were wrong?

As the late Zenon C.R. Hansen would say, employment at Mack Trucks wasn't a job, rather it was a way of life. But you understand none of that and thus would not be suitable for employment at the former Mack Trucks. You strike me as a Volvo kind-of-person.

I've worked with people from Allentown, the glory days are the only days they talk about. All Im suggesting is, Mack did something wrong which resulted in Volvo buying them out, It wasn't Volvo's fault. Anyways, Merry Christmas.

[kscarbel]

I've worked with people from Allentown, the glory days are the only days they talk about. All Im suggesting is, Mack did something wrong which resulted in Volvo buying them out, It wasn't Volvo's fault. Anyways, Merry Christmas.

I can understand why you might assume that. And certainly, the overall performance of all truckmakers varies from year to year. But unknown to many Americans (but certainly no secret), Volvo's ability to acquire Mack Trucks has its roots in the failed merger between Renault and Volvo. Renault became extremely disgusted with their would-be partner Volvo and cancelled merger discussions, however Volvo was able to use that platform and acquire control of RVI (Renault Vehicles Industries) and hence Mack Trucks.

Thus, Mack Trucks was a victim of a European struggle between Renault and Volvo. Mack Trucks itself committed no wrongdoing.

It was entirely because Volvo wanted to buy up more US market share that the Swedes set their sights on Mack Trucks (having already acquired the market share of White and GMC).

Volvo played dirty pool to get their hands on Mack Trucks from the beginning. Volvo met with Marc Gustafson, Mack’s vice president of sales and marketing from 1992, and paid him off to be a traitor for the Volvo cause. Gustafson plotted with the ruthless Swedes at Volvo to conspire against Mack Trucks (the Swedes later double-crossed him – traitors get what they deserve in the end).

Gustafson abruptly left Mack in 1996 to become CEO of Volvo Trucks of North America. He betrayed Mack and used his privileged insider knowledge against Mack Trucks to help orchestrate Volvo’s takeover.

Note the time period, 1996. This is when Mack lost momentum and direction. At Volvo, Gustafson convinced Volvo Group that with his insider knowledge, he could deliver Mack Trucks into Volvo’s hands.

Renault-appointed Mack President Pierre Jocou responded quickly and took a hard stand against Gustafson’s defection (see news article below). But Volvo then used its relationship with Renault (the result of their merger negotiations) to ease the legal battle against Gustafson. Volvo succeeded in replacing the pro-Mack President Pierre Jocou with the pro-Volvo takeover Mack President Michel Gigou.

This is why Pierre Jocou's tenure as Mack president, which began in March 1995, ended prematurely in November 1996. From December 1996 thru July 2001, Jocou's replacement Michel Gigou was merely minding store while the Volvo takeover of “the greatest name in trucks” was being negotiated behind closed European doors.

Ironically, after Gustafson used his 4 years at Mack to stab the company in the back, he only lasted 4 years as CEO at Volvo Trucks of North America. And then just one year heading Freightliner subsidiary American LaFrance. If he’d been a man with any integrity rather than a callous individual willing to stab Mack in the back for a payoff, Mack Trucks might very well still be operating today, as they had been under Renault with generous independence.

_____________________________________________________________

Mack Trucks Sues Former Executive, Says Marc Gustafson Took Company Secrets With Him To His New Job.

October 01, 1996 | by ELLIOT GROSSMAN, The Morning Call

Mack Trucks Inc. has sued the new president of rival truck manufacturer, Volvo GM Heavy Truck Corp., accusing him of taking company secrets when he left Mack two weeks ago.

And Mack has won at least a partial victory in Round 1 of the legal battle involving Marc Gustafson, a former Mack executive vice president.

Chief Judge Edward Cahn of the U.S. District Court in Allentown issued a temporary restraining order Friday, forbidding Gustafson from participating in any Volvo sales and marketing activities or from disclosing any Mack sales and marketing information at Volvo.

But Mack wanted Gustafson blocked from working for Volvo -- or any Mack competitors -- for at least a year. Mack also asked for damages to be awarded at a trial.

At a hearing next Tuesday, Cahn will more deeply delve into the case so he can issue a permanent order.

Gustafson served as Mack's executive vice president for sales and marketing for four years until he resigned Sept. 19, effective that day. He then went to work at Volvo GM Heavy Truck headquarters in Greensboro, N.C.

Mack sued him last week in Lehigh County Court. But he asked that the case be heard in federal court, and Mack did not object.

Mack claims that Gustafson is violating his contract with Mack. In the contract, according to Mack, Gustafson promised to not disclose any confidential Mack information outside Mack.

"It would be impossible for him to ignore his knowledge of Mack's business plans as he considers Volvo's business plans and its competitive strategies," according to Mack's lawsuit.

For example, the suit claims, Gustafson has knowledge of Mack secrets about its costs and pricing structures. This information, which Mack uses when bidding on large orders of trucks, is known only to select individuals at Mack.

Since Mack and Volvo often compete for such orders, Volvo will have an unfair advantage, according to Mack.

Also, Gustafson's knowledge about products being developed by Mack will enable Volvo to take steps to respond to Mack's new products before the products are announced publicly, Mack claims.

Before filing the suit, Mack President Pierre Jocou sent a letter to Volvo's chairman, asking him to not employ Gustafson, at least until the two sides resolve Mack's concerns.

[grayhair]

My understanding, it was a very slow truck market at the time Renault and Volvo first got involved by taking a minority interest. Mack did something wrong? No, I'd say a proud American company with a tradition of doing the right things. Didn't go bankrupt and stiff the shareholders and bondholders like hundreds of other companies. And they provided good jobs and careers for thousands of people along the way.

I don't see any new GMC, or Ford, or Dodge, or Sterling, heavy trucks driving around. Just to stay alive, GM had to screw their bond holders, declaring their bonds (IOUs) worthless and borrowing billions from we the people. Chrysler couldn't make it as a public company. There have been at least a dozen airlines that went bankrupt in recent years. Businesses come and businesses go. It's the way of things. Who knows, maybe one day the truck business again will be very soft and Volvo will fall on hard times and spin-off to new owners that valuable asset (brand) known as Mack Trucks. I'm sure they would sell the name for the right offer. The fact that Volvo continues to use the Mack name speaks volumes. My two cents.

[kscarbel]

Volvo has one ambition, and that is to be the world's largest truckmaker by volume. Volvo uses the Mack name in the US market on their Volvo truck platforms so their North American business unit can support their overall goal, knowing that the Volvo brand is still not widely accepted (in the US market). But ultimately, as in every other global market, they intend for all US market trucks to come under the Volvo name. The Volvo "V" in the grille design of the Mack-branded Volvo trucks represents the future.

The flaw in the Volvo's obsession to become the world's largest truckmaker by volume is their willingness to sacrifice profitability to reach that goal (which Scania and Paccar, the world's most profitable truckmakers, would never do).

So it is indeed possible that a miscalculation by Volvo ahead of a cyclical downturn could very well put the Mack brand on the market as Volvo struggles for cash flow. However, the buyer will need deep pockets as the Mack truck no longer exists. The Volvo platform (chassis) and powertrain will have to be replaced, and finally new cabs. This will all require significant investment. Certainly Oshkosh, for example, has that financial capability. Of course, done right, the rebirth of the Mack truck with modern "game changing" cutting-edge American heavy truck engineering could set the whole truck industry on end.

[farmer52]

What was the original question?

[mackdaddy]

I toured the Pete factory and saw all of the Paccar stamped parts. There is little difference now between a KW and Pete in fact they are sharing the same cab. While I was wandering around talking the biggest complaint the workers building the old cabs was that Paccar was forcing the end to the cab even though it was the number one

cab ordered.

Just ask any long time KW user and they feel the same way as the Volvo Mack connection. Give the success of the new Paccar engine I think the Mack nameplate has a better chance of growing than current Paccar products.

I was interviewed in the KW magazine last month regarding the 1957 KW I restored. The editor wanted nothing to do with discussing "Paccar"

As for being a stock holder in Mack when it was delisted form the NYSE, a lot of folks lost a lot of money.

[kscarbel]

I toured the Pete factory and saw all of the Paccar stamped parts. There is little difference now between a KW and Pete in fact they are sharing the same cab. While I was wandering around talking, the biggest complaint the workers building the old cabs was that Paccar was forcing the end to the cab even though it was the number one

cab ordered.

Just ask any long time KW user and they feel the same way as the Volvo Mack connection. Give the success of the new Paccar engine I think the Mack nameplate has a better chance of growing than current Paccar products.

I was interviewed in the KW magazine last month regarding the 1957 KW I restored. The editor wanted nothing to do with discussing "Paccar"

As for being a stock holder in Mack when it was delisted form the NYSE, a lot of folks lost a lot of money.

The Denton plant is impressive (particularly their painting process). However I don't care at all for the new shared cab. The exterior looks cheap and bland, which coming from Paccar surprises me. Speaking of the Peterbilt version, it doesn't say "Class", the Peterbilt hallmark.

They needed a new cab, but the direction they went with that is shocking. The old cab should continue in production for as long as reasonable customer demand warrants.

But globally, DAF is performing extremely well as a Paccar unit (the rebirth of DAF under Paccar is a success story) and the MX-13 will prove to be as good an engine in the US market as it already is in Europe.

[mack mhe9]

And the old cabs leaving has to do with the Gov. They are going to start imposing fuel standards on truck makers we going to lose the classic styling and everything will look like a ford torus.

[usmcjimbo]

I been to the plant in Hagerstown on a number of occasions. MOST of the components including the blocks are the dame for the D11/MP7 and D13/MP8 engines. Mack has some variations in settings due to their larger vocational requirements.

The MP 2010 compliant SCR engines have been doing a great job. WE have near 300 day cab and sleeper tractors with MP8-415 and MP8-445 engines in our WE Lease lease & rental fleet of 1400+ power units and they have been doing a great job. The M-Drive is making great strides every day with our "stick" customers.

WE have done demonstrator units with some non Volvo/Mack customers who would have never thought about Mack for sleeper use - I am quoting each of them 5-10 new Mack sleepers.

Customers today are looking for durability, reliability, fuel economy, performance and servicability. From my point of view the Mack MP series 2010 compliant SCR engines are delivering superior results all around

[bbigrig]

I'm hearing that a Mack/Volvo shared cab (similar to PACCAR) is within a year of being released. I can't imagine the crap that is going to hit the fan on BMT when that happens.

[kscarbel]

I been to the plant in Hagerstown on a number of occasions. MOST of the components including the blocks are the dame for the D11/MP7 and D13/MP8 engines. Mack has some variations in settings due to their larger vocational requirements.

The MP 2010 compliant SCR engines have been doing a great job. WE have near 300 day cab and sleeper tractors with MP8-415 and MP8-445 engines in our WE Lease lease & rental fleet of 1400+ power units and they have been doing a great job. The M-Drive is making great strides every day with our "stick" customers.

WE have done demonstrator units with some non Volvo/Mack customers who would have never thought about Mack for sleeper use - I am quoting each of them 5-10 new Mack sleepers.

Customers today are looking for durability, reliability, fuel economy, performance and servicability. From my point of view the Mack MP series 2010 compliant SCR engines are delivering superior results all around

I think it's correct to say that customers have always been looking for durability, reliability, fuel economy, performance and serviceability.

From the amount of warranty engine repairs with the EPA2010-spec Volvo D-Series (MP) engines, I don't see them performing any better overall than the others. For some Mack-brand distributors, over 80 percent of their shop repair work is warranty work. And dealing with Volvo on warranty repairs is a time-consuming headache.

[KECorbin22]

I believe that as to what the trucking industry was 25 years ago, it will not be what it is today, 25 years from now. Just to meet the further fuel mileage requirements and EPA regulations will cause some drastic changes. First the weight factor, the day of the sleeper cab will be long gone along with the cross country driver. Slip seating and drop & hook with drivers doing turn around to fall within time requirements. The change over to LPG (taking up to 6-8 hours to refuel) and the never ending high cost of diesel fuel will improve rail transport, The cost of insurance and the sheer number of personal autos on the roads will limit trucks to operating times. The day of different trucks manufactures, as we have already seen, will be down to one or two companies, just from the cost of operating. . There will still be a small need for overweight and oversize loads but that is going to be restricted beyond belief. From my own work experiences what I know 20 years ago hardly applies today. Then there is the last factor, the quality of the Driver, we know that this is not the same world we grew up in. One's opine !!!

[kscarbel]

I believe that as to what the trucking industry was 25 years ago, it will not be what it is today, 25 years from now. Just to meet the further fuel mileage requirements and EPA regulations will cause some drastic changes. First the weight factor, the day of the sleeper cab will be long gone along with the cross country driver. Slip seating and drop & hook with drivers doing turn around to fall within time requirements. The change over to LPG (taking up to 6-8 hours to refuel) and the never ending high cost of diesel fuel will improve rail transport, The cost of insurance and the sheer number of personal autos on the roads will limit trucks to operating times. The day of different trucks manufactures, as we have already seen, will be down to one or two companies, just from the cost of operating. . There will still be a small need for overweight and oversize loads but that is going to be restricted beyond belief. From my own work experiences what I know 20 years ago hardly applies today. Then there is the last factor, the quality of the Driver, we know that this is not the same world we grew up in. One's opine !!!

Many believe we will see more permanently paired tractors and trailers (as in Europe today), and less drop and hook, in order to optimize aerodynamics to the utmost.

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/33287-tractor-and-trailer/

[Joe Ditchkus]

After 42 years as an owner operator I am happy in a certain way I am about to retire. I enjoyed it imenselyfor the most part,but with all the new electronics and auto this and that I would not want to buy a new truck.I ran 48 States for the first 15 years then tri-axle dump for the rest.Even with the tri-axle I worked from Conn. to Florida and parts and service were never a problem if needed. I hope the reliablty issues with todays trucks gets solved. Joe D.

[rickykarenpr]

awesome the mack motor or mack engine my truck have one E7 300 Turbo in one 1992 Mack CH600

[superliner500]

I think everybody should send an email to Oshkosh hq and plant a seed. As said earlier volvo may need quick cash and mack could become all american again taken over by a very successful all american company. Did under estimate planting a seed either. People in top jobs are only human and could take to any small idea and run with it. Many emails, many seeds. May take a while to grow, but you never know

Here's to hope for all american MACK

[bulldogboy]

Nice idea but do you think that Volvo would ever sell Mack? I'm sure that Volvo knows that an independent Mack would be serious competition to its brand so it would rather keep Mack as a niche

model (think of Autocar) in their lineup.

bulldogboy