Pa registration and truck use

[Harrisburg Mack]

Guys, I'm looking at a MH superliner to possibly restore and use to haul my B models. I'm looking for some insight for registry in Pa and insurance costs.??

It looks like any truck registered as a antique, or vintage can not be used to haul any thing..? Is this correct?

Also wondering registration costs if registered as a regular truck and insurance. The vehicle would probably be a class 8 I believe. Would haul approximately 55-60 thousand total pounds.

MH has a 12k front 40k rears and is a 1987.

Any insight would be great. Was really hoping to restore the truck and utilize to take to shows and haul my other trucks but I'm just Leary of the end costs to actually make it happen.

Thanks guys

[rsb502]

Dunno bout PA but in TN an Antique tag is or weekend and show or club trip use only, my insurance is $360/year and is good for me pulling my stuff to and from show's, the shop, club meetings, etc. You cannot use a truck with antique tags for hire so you can't haul someone else's stuff for money but you can haul your own vehicles/equipment. I checked into this here last year to make sure I would be legal in PA, they said it was pretty much the same as TN.

[hicrop10]

I have my 1979 R model Mack with antique tags here in PA.Insurance cost are about $150 ayear.I am allowed to haul my own stuff.You don't need a cdl,truck doesn't need to be inspected and you don't have to carry a driver log.Good Luck,where about in Harrisburg are u I get out there once in a while.

[Harrisburg Mack]

Hhhmmm, I was hoping I could haul my own. Not looking to do any "for hire" work just add a truck to the collection and use it to haul my B's to shows further away. Any Pa guys with info...

[hicrop10]

Read my post above yours.

[Joe Ditchkus]

I live and have trucks registered and insured antique. It must be 25 years old to register with antique plates. They were $75.00 one time purchase. I have J.C. Taylor for some very reasonable but trucks only no trailers other trucks with Gulfway from Bayonette Point, Florida with them you can pull your own trailers with your own antique trucks if Gulfway insures them.No commercial or for hire with either company.Joe D.

[Joe Ditchkus]

I forgot to put I live in Penna. Joe D.

[Harrisburg Mack]

Thanks mike and joe, yeah looking to haul all my own stuff just wasn't sure on registration. Penndots description of antique registration is deceiving.... Says buses and trucks registered antique "CAN NOT" haul any loads.. Was hoping this was commerical or for hire work. My intentions are to simply use my own equipment not for hire.

Also when I registered my first B I was expecting a war. It's a tillered fire truck ... Really painless for the most part... Now this truck is a 57 with vacuum brakes.

I won't need a CDL for this 87 twin screw MH pulling a 50' trailer...?? As long as it is all private an registered to me.

[hicrop10]

As long as your MH has antique tags on it you will not need a CDL,or it will not have to have a state inspection sticker on it.I only have a inspection sticker on my 79 r model was so my brother could take his CDL test in the truck.

[1958 F.W.D.]

I have done extensive research on this matter in the past.

When I first purchased my 1958 FWD Pumper, because it had a GVWR of 28,500 I was told I would need a CDL, however the actual weight of the vehicle is only 16,700 on a heavy day. Even filled with 500 gallons of water and a full load of hose it still does not even come close to breaking the 26,001 threshold for a CDL. The Pa Vehicle Code is of course as clear as mud, so I contacted The Pa. State Police (Motor Carrier Enforcement Trooper in Charge) at the Dublin (Bucks County) Barracks for clarification. I started asking GVWR versus actual weight questions and was met with silence from the other end of the phone. When I started asking the need for a CDL when driving a truck registered and insured as an antique that weighed <26,001 pounds I could hear the Trooper scratching his head in the awkward silence. He finally said "Yeah you would need a CDL regardless." So then I said "So all these people driving these super tour-bus sized motor homes need CDL's?" And he didn't know WHAT to say......So he gave me the number of someone at State Police HQ in Harrisburg. I called out there and basically got the same run-around- no one knew what the hell to tell me. So they finally passed the buck and told me to call someone at PENNDOT and gave me a name and a number. So I called there 3-4 times and IF THEY ANSWERED I got "I'll have to look that up and get back to you." Well of course no one called me back, so finally I contacted my elected official (Rep Charlie Dent) and spoke with one of his staffers. About a week later I got a phone call from someone at the PENNDOT's Commissioner's Office who spoke with me for about 45 minutes. In a nutshell:

-The operator of any vehicle weighing in excess of 26,001 pounds that is titled, tagged, registered and insured as an antique vehicle not within commerce shall possess a minimum of a non CDL operators license with the weight class endorsement appropriate for the vehicle being operated.

-I have JC Taylor Insurance. I have been with them for 3 years now and am happy. I used to be with Condon and Skelly but got upset when they switched underwriters without notice and my rates shot up big time, so I dropped them. I have a little above and beyond the State require minimum coverage and have my baby covered for $8000 loss and I pay $165 a year and am limited to 2500 miles per year (if I do 500 that was a busy year.)

I cannot speak about combination vehicles however I do know a bunch of folks who were bitching about many companies refusing to insure any more combination vehicles. You also mentioned a tiller- I have a buddy who had four of them, and bought another one. He had Condon and Skelly and they refused to accept it even though he had 20+ vehicles insured with them for 15 or more years. You want to talk about pissed off!!!!?????

I have 2 or 3 friends in Pa. who have tillers and if I understand correctly, as long as it is a traditional fire department attachment (permanent in nature, not normally detachable like a tractor trailer) it is considered an articulated vehicle, not a combination vehicle.

[leversole]

It is really simple....every time I have emailed penndot they have gotten back wih me pretty quickly...

A class C license is not going to allow you to pull a trailer with a load. Your class of non-commercial license is based on weight...

(d) Number and description of classes.--Licenses issued by the department shall be classified in the following manner:

(1) Class A.--A Class A license shall be issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle or vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

(i) The holder of a Class A license shall be deemed qualified to operate those vehicles for which a Class B or Class C license is issued.

(ii) Where required under this title, appropriate endorsements must be obtained.

(2) Class B.--A Class B license shall be issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more or any such vehicle towing a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than 10,000 pounds.

(i) The holder of a Class B license shall be deemed qualified to operate those vehicles for which a Class C license is issued.

(ii) Where required under this title, appropriate endorsements must be obtained.

(3) Class C.--A Class C license shall be issued to those persons 18 years of age or older, except as provided in section 1503 (relating to persons ineligible for licensing; license issuance to minors; junior driver's license), who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any single vehicle, except those vehicles requiring a Class M qualification, with a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than 26,000 pounds or any combination of vehicles, except combination vehicles involving motorcycles, that does not meet the definition of either Class A or Class B of this section.

An antiqe titled truck cannot be considered a commercial vehicle...

Chapter 1603 of the Pennsylvania Vehicle Code defines a commercial motor vehicle as:

"Commercial motor vehicle." A motor vehicle designed or used to transport passengers or property:

(1) if the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds or such lesser rating as the department shall adopt under the provisions of section 6103© (relating to promulgation of rules and regulations by department), as determined by Federal regulation and published by the department as a notice in the Pennsylvania Bulletin;

(2) if the vehicle is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver;

(3) if the vehicle is a school bus; or

(4) if the vehicle is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in accordance with department regulations.

The term does not include an antique or classic motor vehicle, or an implement of husbandry, or any motor home or recreational trailer operated solely for personal use, or motorized construction equipment, including, but not limited to, motorscrapers, backhoes, motorgraders, compactors, excavators, tractors, trenchers and bulldozers.

I also have a letter in my truck from PennDot that says I do not need a class B or C license because my truck is titled and registered at 21000lbs...BUT, it is not completely 100% guaranteed legal because the state's definition of GVWR says specifically "original manufacturers gross vehicle weight rating".

I am goint to have to change the weight listed on the title and registration to reflect the OEM weight of 50,000lbs, and the GCVWR of 80,0000lbs as originally manufactured. This will allow me to pull my camper and any trailer I choose.

As for licensing,I was going to just upgrade my license to a class A, but the information on how to do this is sketchy, as I dont know what to study, and the air brake part is not defined for a non comercial class A, and I dont know anyone with a non-commercial class A to take to the test site, and there is no definition of the skills test for a non-commercial class A.

From PennDOT...

For the class A non-commercial license you must pass a written and road test. The information that you must study for the test is located in the Pennsylvania Driver’s Manual.

When you go to take the road test you must have a driver with you that is 21 years of age or older with a class A non commercial license. You must bring your own vehicle that has a trailer and meets the weight requirements for the non-commercial class A license.

So, I found a drivers school in State College that has testing authority and thier own trucks/trailers, will pay them for a couple hours of skills training and see if I can pass the drivers test in the same day...

One more funny thing...the law says after I pass the written CDL test, I may begin "practicing" the skills portion...it does not say anything about being with a licensed driver!

[hurstscrambler]

I don't have an answer for you guys, but coming from someone who isn't a professional truck driver, getting a license isn't really a big deal. Having a vehicle to do it in is the hard part, but if you want the licence you must have that part covered. I got my A and I had virtually never driven a truck, I don't like the idea of if being a grey area. Some jackass cop feels like impounding your truck cause he's in a bad mood, no thanks... Andy

[hicrop10]

I've had a class A since I was 18 years old.My brother wanted to get his CDL about 6 m0nths ago,I had to go with him to drive the truck to the Penndot facillty.We had my 79 R model all I had to do to the truck was to have it inspected(which was no problem).The thing I don't get with Penndot is if you don't speak or understand the ENGLISH language you can have someone there that does next to you while you take the test.I think if they gave a skills test to every truck driver you would be shock at how many couldn't pass the test.I was dropping a load off at a power plant in Reading PA that was 15wide and my total weight was 202,000.The reason I'm telling you this is that there was 3 otr drivers there that could not back into the loading dock,I had to do it for the 3 of them,meanwhile they asked me where I was going to put my load,they were shock when I put it in the forth and last loading dock.

[BGarofalo]

I just went through this in NJ a few weeks ago. Probably not the same for PA but the insurance should be similar. I registered my CL as non-commercial at an 80,000lbs weight rating, just like you would do a motor home. I went through Progressive for insurance and the rates were not bad. My truck with any trailer I am hooked to is covered for $560 a year. Again that me hauling my own stuff not for hire.

[hurstscrambler]

I read my post and want to clarify, I didn't want to imply that it was easy to be a skilled operator. I know it's not, and I by no means consider myself that. I think the testing is if anything too easy. My father has been a truck driver for 40 years, so I have a tremendous respect for guys that make it look easy. Andy

[Harrisburg Mack]

Thanks for all the help guys, if I understand The information correctly a class C license is good for anything under 26001 "unless" it's registered antique or vintage. Then there really isn't any regulation as far as weight ratings.

When I registered my 57 B Tiller they only headache penndot have me was the damn pictures of all sides of the truck. This truck being 33'000 #'s they didn't care at all about my class C license. Probably the craziest thing is once your registered for $75 bucks or so your done never any inspections ever never nothing!! Lol..

This is gonna be awesome .... Can't imagine what fun would be in store driving such a setup across the Maryland line with a Class C!

[hicrop10]

They tell me there's only one person out in harrisburg that looks at the 4 photos when you send them in for antique or classic tags.They gave me alittle problem when I wanted antique tags for my 79 r model,I had to paint it before they would issue them.I was going to paint it anyhow,once i did that they could't have given me the tag any quicker.I think they may have throught it was to nice to be considered as a antique,it only had 70,000 orignal miles on it.

[farmer52]

One more funny thing...the law says after I pass the written CDL test, I may begin "practicing" the skills portion...it does not say anything about being with a licensed driver!

FYI this is Ohio's requirment..."The permit gives you the ability to drive a commercial vehicle only when accompanied by a CDL holder sitting in the passenger seat. The CDL holder must have the appropriate license for the type of commercial vehicle you are driving. Also, the CDL holder must be there for the purpose of giving you driving instruction."

[Freightrain]

I got my CDL the home taught way also. After dragging my 40ft trailer with my pickup the driving part was not hard. I only had to remember the air brake stuff. Took my temp test and then waited a few weeks before scheduling a road test. Presto, all was good. The place about an hour south of me rented trucks so you didn't have to bring one. Makes it really easy because you know it will pass the pretrip LOL!

I'm in Ohio, my truck is registered Historical and I've dragged my race car around for 12 yrs now. Been to PA, MI, KY, IN, NY without much issue. Just fly under the radar and keep the truck clean and they ignore me for the most part.

[Harrisburg Mack]

From what I hear Pa has done away with the photo requirement for antique registry.