I Found Her!

[joemac]

After a somewhat frustrating search involving perhaps a dozen people, I found my favorite rig: the former Oreland pumper.

In case you missed it, she's a 1958 Mack C85 with an ENF 707C engine coupled to a Spicer automatic with a two-speed rear.

The current owner also has two L models that he bought with the C as a package deal. One is a 1950, the other, a 1951, both in semi-rough condition. We're negotiating a deal whereby I help him with the two L models in exchange for ownership of the C. Barter is still alive.

This is my dream truck. To think that I may actually own her is mind blowing.

It currently has a stalling problem that I'm going to help to diagnose. Since it's spent most of the time sitting since 1994, it's probably a given that it needs fuel system work. I hope to be going out again next week to begin diagnosis.

I may be jumping the gun, but I've located a source for an electronic ignition conversion (PerTronix) to delete the points in the primary distributor. Has anyone done this conversion to this type of engine?

The speedometer has been replaced, so I'll be looking for an original Mack speedo, unless the original somehow surfaces.

Are manuals available for this truck? I'd like to learn as much as possible about the drivetrain, even if I don't end up owning her.

[Freightrain]

Congrats on finding it!! Hope it all works out for you.

[41chevy]

All the Pertronix instructions for all their units. I installed in in a '60 international, easy as pie. Paul

http://www.pertronix.com/support/instructions/

[j hancock]

Excellent! Glad you found it.

[bulldogboy]

Congratulations, perseverance pays off, hopefully. I used to drive a "C" model aerial ladder.

Nice truck; had a few "big ones" with it.

bulldogboy

[Mack458]

I placed two of the Pertronix systems in my 65 with 707C engine without much trouble. As was stated the instructions come with the unit. Make sure to specify positive or negative ground when ordering. As far as information I would contact the Mack Museum with the serial number, and also Oreland Fire Company. They still have a fantastic CF in service and are good guys. Also try contacting Supplee Brothers pump service in Oreland @ 215-884-1611. They are members of Oreland and most likely can tell you everything about the truck, including photos. Again great folks to work with. Mark

[kmeitz]

Glad to hear that you found her. Next time you go out, don't forget to get some photos.

[General Ike]

I've driven rigs with 2-speed rears over the years but it escapes me on how an automatic coupled to a 2-speed would operate. Do you manually hold the main transmission in each gear while shifting the rear, then select the next range on the main transmission.... Is the 2-speed shifting automated too? I'm confused.

[57 bcr]

Congrats on finding the pumper,joemac! Ike, some garbage trucks use the Allison/2-speed axle combo as a "street gear" and an "off road gear", as to not heat up the trans. in certain situations. Maybe that's the way this set-up was used? Just a thought.

[frictionman]

It sure is good to know another truck has been matched up with its joyful owner/caregiver! Wish they all could be adopted and given good homes. Best wishes. Joe

[1958 F.W.D.]

The manuals may be available through the Mack museum. Send them the serial number and ask for copies of the factory file and any manuals they may have, which will be sent to you for free- however when you get them THOU SHALT SEND THEM A SUITABLE DONATION CHECK. (Dont be cheap.) There is an 8-10 week wait on requests.

And as suggested, call the Oreland Mack Branch on Lorraine Ave. Howard is usually there during daytime and Daniel shows up a few days a week after 1600.

[609albert]

electronic ignition by petroncis is simple to install ,you have to know if you have a negative or positive ground system on your Mack, most had positive systems. let us know what the problem with stalling out is.

[fxfymn]

Congrats on the find. Keep us posted with pictures. The C models are great looking trucks.

We had a couple of straight ladder trucks with the Spicer two speeds in them. To say they are not the best choice for a fire truck transmission is being kind. I have lots of memories of Mom's holding their ears while pushing baby carriages past us as we attempted to climb a hill while responding in those units as it screamed along in low gear. One was finally replaced with a five speed manual and the other went on to be refrigerators and boat anchors.

IMO the use of the Spicer 2 speeds is probably what kept many departments from adopting automatic transmissions sooner. I know it did for our department.

[yarnall]

Good work on finding the C model. I hope it works out.

My CF719 had a 2 speed spicer in when it was new. They considered scrapping the truck because the the spicer gave them so much trouble. They finally replaced it with an Allison.

Let see some pictures.

Mike

[mowerman]

excellent have a ball with it...bob

[j hancock]

Maybe Spicer was trying to save the fire companies some money by combining the siren function with the transmission???

[joemac]

Thanks for the support and suggestions.

I've known the Supplees my whole life. I went to school with Dan and Bill. I was a member of Oreland Fire Co., years ago. I see everyone at the firehouse every fourth of July. I talk with Bill every now and then and visit with Howard occasionally.

I've been helping with the restoration of old 704, the '37 International. I have the two script badges from the hood right now that I'm polishing, as well as the build plate.

Bill emailed me this morning that he may have tracked down the original beacon that was replaced, apparently by the folks at Barto, who bought in from Oreland when the CFs arrived.

I did take a few photos when I was out at the truck on Monday...just can't figure out how to post them here. My son is going to come by and help me out with it.

My only real dilemma is where I would park the truck if I get it. I don't want it sitting out in the weather and I can't afford storage fees to keep it in a garage. I might be able to put it in the driveway and cover it, or put up a large carport over it.

First things first- I need a manual with mechanical specs so I can go over everything for inspection and maintenance. I was an auto tech for about 35 years, so I know mechanicals and body work.

Photos to follow...

[Charlie Hatfield]

I have a big manual for fire apparatus that has a lot of info in it, including the spicer 2 speed automatic. I don't want to sell it, but could possibly make some copies.

[1958 F.W.D.]

joemac, about storage:

1. DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT store it outside if at all possible, even with a cover. And those awning things are just about useless after the first good wind or snow. Additionally, check with your local code enforcement official about storing something in your driveway- many communities have ordinances forbidding storing "derelict" vehicles and/or large vehicles on your residential property. What municipality do you live in?

2. Check with the Supplees- last time I was over at the shop they had an awful lot of vacant space.....perhaps an arrangement could be made???

[joemac]

[j hancock]

Very nice!

You can take it off your bucket list now

[yarnall]

That looks great. This truck sits out near me. It still has the antique tag on but no roof over it. You see how important it is. You need a building. One of those car ports is not good enough. That is what I had at first. It ruined he paint on the truck I kept in there. Mike

Hard to read unless it is enlarged, but it is also from Barto.

[joemac]

Wow! That L is what the C replaced at Barto.

[yarnall]

It could be bought if anyone is interested. The doors are rough. There used to be an old Seagrave next to it that he sold. He has three other fire trucks inside.

[Loadstar]

Joemac, best of luck with the truck.....hopefully she'll be yours someday!