Red Horse Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 KSCI saw a piece on the BON website that referred to Ford spending 100 million with Turkish partner Otosan to develop new 11and 13 liter diesels for trucks and industrial applications. You have any thoughts on that? I can't believe they would spend that kind of money and npot give consideration to the US market. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36423-11l-13l-ford-ecotorque-diesels/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Just to keep things in perspective, in the world of Ford, $100 million is a small investment.The 2013 annual report of KOC Holding, Ford's Turkish partner in the Ford-Otosan truckmaking joint-venture states:Ford Otosan is to invest US$ 100 million in the production of the new 11-liter and 13-liter Ecotorq engines. The intellectual property rights of the engines, designed by Ford Otosan engineers, belong to Ford Otosan. The new Ecotorq engines that will be manufactured at Euro 6 emission standards, are expected to have wide use including heavy commercial vehicles as well as industrial and marine applications.Apparently, Ford has purchased the old 10.3-liter Cursor 10 and old 12.7-liter Cursor 13 for its heavy Cargo range from Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT). Iveco has replaced the Cursor 10 with the 11.1-liter Cursor 11.The 12.7-liter Cursor 13 was found in agricultural machinery, while the 12.9-liter Cursor 13 is used in Iveco trucks. Fiat needs the money, so it's a win-win both ways.As for the U.S. market, Ford certainly has a better chance of re-entering the U.S. heavy truck market than Iveco does under the Dodge brand with their conventional Powerstar series (though it's an impressive truck). However, unless Ford buys International (to immediately obtain a heavy truck network), I don't feel the U.S. market is robust enough to support an additional heavy truck maker. The high point of the U.S. heavy truck market has passed. High volumes and profitability are a thing of the past. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36423-11l-13l-ford-ecotorque-diesels/#findComment-253619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Horse Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Just to keep things in perspective, in the world of Ford, $100 million is a small investment.The 2013 annual report of KOC Holding, Ford's Turkish partner in the Ford-Otosan truckmaking joint-venture states:Ford Otosan is to invest US$ 100 million in the production of the new 11-liter and 13-liter Ecotorq engines. The intellectual property rights of the engines, designed by Ford Otosan engineers, belong to Ford Otosan. The new Ecotorq engines that will be manufactured at Euro 6 emission standards, are expected to have wide use including heavy commercial vehicles as well as industrial and marine applications.Ford is already equipping the heavy Cargo range with the 10.3-liter Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) Cursor 10 found in Iveco trucks.So I'm sure that Ford is now planning to produce the 11.1-liter Cursor 11 and 12.9-liter Cursor 13 under license in Turkey (The Cursor 11 replaces the Cursor 10). We all know that Fiat needs the money, so it's a win-win both ways.As for the U.S. market, Ford certainly has a better chance of re-entering the U.S. heavy truck market than Iveco does under the Dodge brand with their conventional Powerstar series (though it's an impressive truck). However, unless Ford buys International (to immediately obtain a heavy truck network), I don't feel the U.S. market is robust enough to support an additional heavy truck maker. The high point of the U.S. heavy truck market has passed. High volumes and profitability are a thing of the past. KS-Are you saying that these "new" 11 and 13 liters are in fact Fiat/Iveco s built under license? the article clearly states these are proprietory Ford Otosan engines designed and built in house. by the way, I did a google search and there was some big press show in Turkey in I think February. Very professional "show biz" media show to a room of a few hundred "suits". seated in the middle of the front romm with headphones on to get the translation is a smiling Bill Ford.! Mr Ford going to Turkey says a lot to me.By the way, your comment on the "high point" of the US heavy truck market "passing" is I think correct in the sense that 500 HP "large cars" will be on a downward slide is I think correct- as intermodal gains speed. But the short haul class 8 (11, 13 Liter??) market I think will thrive as you can only have so many intermodal break bulk facilities. Also, 11 and 13 liters will work very well in a lot of the vocational markets. There will always be a need for big power in vocational too but 11-13 IMO will be the volume.As always value your world wide view! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36423-11l-13l-ford-ecotorque-diesels/#findComment-253661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yes, the new 11 and 13 liter engines they mention will be the rebadged Cursor 10 and Cursor 13 powerplants. Either Ford is producing them under license, or it has purchased the technology. They're fairly good engines too. It's a win-win for Ford in Turkey and Fiat. Fiat very much needs the money, and the enthusiastic truck people at Ford-Otosan are serious about producing a high-end European truck. They need to at least get up to 13 liters. Bill Ford is a wonderful human being and has great fondness for Otosan in Turkey (as we've mentioned, Ford-Otosan was born out of a vision shared by Henry Ford himself and Mr. Vehbi Koc (the family still behind Otosan today), resulting in Koc becoming Ford's distributor in 1928. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36423-11l-13l-ford-ecotorque-diesels/#findComment-253757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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