ENDT-673C LuberFiner Gasket

[doubleclutchinweasel]

So, I was looking at oil filters and such for the old Dog.

The ENDT-673C has the LuberFiner canister (combination full-flow & bypass) on it. Filter element number 236GB311A, I do believe. At least that's one of the numbers on the build sheet. That number crosses over to several still-available filters (Wix, Baldwin, etc...). So, no problem there. And, the dimensions & pictures I find are very familiar to me. I have handled this type before, but it has been YEARS ago.

But, I have found 2 different housing gaskets (see pictures), and wonder if anybody can shed any light on it, without me having to take mine apart first. Might be a 121SB45.

The first gasket I have found, which might work in there, appears to be an O-ring...round cross-section. This is what Wix calls for for their element.

The other gasket I have found is a "beveled" cross-section. Personally, I would have called this a "diamond" cross-section.

Both these numbers come up on one cross-reference or another. Some of these cross-references would tend to suggest interchangeability between the 2 parts. But, when you look at the dimensions, the "diamond" one is quite a bit thicker.

Without taking the canister apart, I wonder if there is any way to tell what the gasket is supposed to look like. I just can't remember what the seal looked like all those years ago. And, maybe there are 2 different types of canisters. I just don't know.

I suppose the "safe" way would be to have one of each on hand, and use whichever one looks right. But, that's guesswork; I hate guesswork!

[Freightrain]

Mine was just a round O ring.

You could just drain a bit out of the cansiter and take the lid off to see. Or at least just remove the clamp and see what is in there. Not much to pour the oil back in again.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Mine was just a round O ring.

You could just drain a bit out of the cansiter and take the lid off to see. Or at least just remove the clamp and see what is in there. Not much to pour the oil back in again.

Was yours the full-flow/bypass combo, or just a single-purpose?

[Freightrain]

full flow, three lines out the bottom.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Yeah. That's me, too.

The local guy said he could get me one of each tomorrow. Said to use whichever one I need & return the other. Can't beat that.

Looking between the gaps, at the shape of the bottom of the canister lip, it looks like it would use a round seal.

[theakerstwo]

If that is a working truck you should do what Larry did and go to the screw on filter.There is one that uses three full flow and one that uses two full flow and the later one use two full flow and one spinner filter.But the best I remember your use the round o/ring.The squar is a luberfiner brand for a 750 and will bot work.If you can find the o/ring there is stores that sell o/rings and most can make a o/ring from stock rubber rope which is cut and glued together like all o/rings.We have two stores here I know of.

[39 Baby Mack]

Glenn and Larry are right, your filter uses an "O" ring.

It is not a Luberfiner!!!!!!

It is a WGB oil clarifier made in Kingston N.Y. for the Mack Co.

The Baldwin filter # is P706M, does not come with the gasket but I will find the gasket # for you.

Ron

[39 Baby Mack]

The Baldwin gasket number is G157.

Ron

[doubleclutchinweasel]

WGB, huh? Cool! Never knew that.

All those numbers match up with the ones I have. So that's good.

This is a hobby truck, and will likely stay with the factory filter.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

full flow, three lines out the bottom.

Curiosity has set in!

Didn't you actually convert yours over to spin-ons?

After doing a lot of reading, and being very confused, it sounds like the "3-line" units (full-flow and bypass) were a bit easier to convert to spin-on than the ones which were only bypass or only full flow.

Can you shed any light???

[doubleclutchinweasel]

%^$#$%^^&$#!!!

I just checked the oil filter canister. I appears that, after a time, the oil is draining out of the filter canister. Can't tell if it is some of the oil or all of the oil.

This surprises me, because the oil pressure is not terribly slow to build up on this engine.

So, "full" on the dipstick is NOT full, apparently. I guess you would have to check the oil level immediately after shutdown, while there was still oil in the filter, to see if the crankcase was actually full. And, when the filter drained, it would be way over-full. I have tried checking it at idle, but the dipstick has oil all over it then.

I doubt it would be possible to get parts for these old canisters (check valves, springs, etc...). I'm sure that's what it needs; the check valves rebuilt.

So, I may have to try to convert it over to spin-on filters, after all. Really did not want to do that.

This may be the one that puts me over the top. I am about tired of doing this.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Okay. So, what is a 215SB123 oil filter conversion kit?

That can't possibly be all there is to it? Can it?

[Freightrain]

Sorry...........as I went through this crap years ago. Mine always took forever to get pressure after cold start up. Same situation as you.

I pulled the drain back valves out of the bottom and cleaned/polished them(nounted to dremel drill and polished the cups with scotchbrite) to make sure they worked better. Seemed it was okay for a few weeks and went back to 10 seconds to get oil pressure at cold start. Ugh.

I mentioned it here and Phil(counterman6 is his screen name) from Global Truck Traders Anyhow, he contacted me and told me he had a spin on unit for me. We confirmed everything and he shipped it. Bolted it on and works like a charm.

It has to be motor specific. Mine had no turbo and no oil cooler. He had an R model with apparently a 711 with no oil cooler and no turbo?

Only thing I shoulda got was the down draft tube. The one for spin on is different then the big full flow and I had to "massage" mine to get it to fit. Oh well.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Sorry...........as I went through this crap years ago. Mine always took forever to get pressure after cold start up. Same situation as you.

I pulled the drain back valves out of the bottom and cleaned/polished them(nounted to dremel drill and polished the cups with scotchbrite) to make sure they worked better. Seemed it was okay for a few weeks and went back to 10 seconds to get oil pressure at cold start. Ugh.

I mentioned it here and Phil(counterman6 is his screen name) from Global Truck Traders Anyhow, he contacted me and told me he had a spin on unit for me. We confirmed everything and he shipped it. Bolted it on and works like a charm.

It has to be motor specific. Mine had no turbo and no oil cooler. He had an R model with apparently a 711 with no oil cooler and no turbo?

Counterman6? At gloaltrucktraders?

[Freightrain]

phil@globaltrucktraders.com

603-239-7008

Yours being a turbo will likely be easier to match up.

[j hancock]

Phil is not working at Global anymore but someone there should be able help.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

phil@globaltrucktraders.com

603-239-7008

Yours being a turbo will likely be easier to match up.

I sent a PM to counterman6, who I believe is that same guy. Told him what I was looking at. I guess we'll see.

If there is a "kit", and all I need to do is have hoses made, or something like that, I might be able to convince myself to do it. Otherwise...

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Phil is not working at Global anymore but someone there should be able help.

Oh! Then that PM won't do much good, will it?!

[j hancock]

I sent a PM to counterman6, who I believe is that same guy. Told him what I was looking at. I guess we'll see.

If there is a "kit", and all I need to do is have hoses made, or something like that, I might be able to convince myself to do it. Otherwise...

Same guy. Call or email Global and see what they have.

Gene at State Line truck Fitzwilliam, NH (Mack Service Dealer) may be of help. Prices will be for new.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

I sent Global a message. Will contact State Line, also. Thanks, all.

[Freightrain]

Likely won't take any new hoses. Just unbolt all the crap from your existing set up and bolt on the spin on. Only thing different is you have oil pressure line to turbo.

You'll have to plug the drain line into the bottom of the block(small line from your old set up). I pulled the brass fitting and put a pipe plug in.

"IF" you have block heater, you may have to remove it. I did, as the new filter set up bolts up snug against the block and my heater was installed right there. Once you get the heater element out you will have to finesse the old fitting out(I heated and hacked mine out with cold chisel. Then a new block plug to replace it.

Old mount: (they are o-ring and was pretty crusty after 50 odd years in the block)

new plug: screws in with new o-ring.

[Maddog13407]

like Larry said its engine specific. one from a 237 might work, but it might not. I think it all depends If your engine has piston oil squirters as this will have an extra hole under that block once you take it off. I think 5 holes and the older engines without piston squirters had 4 holes. I know I have the same filter on my end707 the full flow bypass type. I know its takes the $37.00 filter instead of the $7.00 one! anyways I tried putting the filter set up from a 237 on it and I know something was funky and it wouldn't work so I put the 750c back on it

[Freightrain]

Yup, I went off my big motor manual(it has nice pictures of all the mounting surfaces) and then pulled my filter housing and Phil and I compared notes.

Mine being a very stripped down version I think made it a bit more of a needle in a haystack to find spin on filter housing to fit.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Larry, I think I found your project all over the web! Looks like you searched every diesel form out there. Sounds familiar.

Yeah, mine has a block heater in that area, as well. It just might have to go.

Sounds like, from your description, you eliminated the bypass portion of the original filter? That is, I believe, what the smaller, center line is for. Right? Filtered bypass oil that is dumped back into the pan?

Here are a few pictures of the side of my engine, just to see if it helps anybody's memory...

[Freightrain]

I posted my project on a few other truck forums that I used to frequent.

I see you have an oil cooler, that will take into account also. Likely not needed since it is just a toy truck. Not sure how that comes off and if you can just bypass it?

Yes, the small line just puts oil back into the pan. I just removed the fitting from the block and plugged it. Typical spin on will not have that drain line, unless like Glenn mentioned it is a 3 filter set up with a spinner filter. Which I would guess would do the same, put just filter oil back into the pan.

My local Mack dealer had(got for me) the new plug to replace the block heater fitting. It was not a big deal to get apart, just some light heat with propane torch and a chisel broke it right loose. Wire brushed everything and installed the new plug.