brutus998 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Quick question. Where does cheater gear (high side all the way over and down)fall into the pattern on a fuller. Is it between 4 and 5th?Tranny is a 15 speed double over Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 question again? Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_martell Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Between 3 and 4 sorta in my 8LL over..... Quote Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.... Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb61sx Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 On mine its from 5th high down to low in high and back up to 5th but does fall between 3rd and 4th ratio wise and I have an 8LL Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bts-4120 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 on a 15 isn't that a regular gear you use there a 10 speed with a deep reduction box the one I had used the U shift patern Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutus998 Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 Yes mine has the u pattern Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ws721 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Are you talking about starting off in "deep" then shifting to low without stopping? On the 15 speeds I have had most any gear would work depending on the terrain. But I preffered 4th deep coming out to 3 low seemed to work for me. Maybe I am misunderstanding the question 1 Quote Remember if it's got a hood it's no good! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Dash Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I've only used that gear on a 9 speed. The ratio was close to 5th and came in handy because it eliminated the need to drop into low and go "right and down", epsecially when turning.I'm just lazy, I reckon. Quote Jim Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
other dog Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I've only used that gear on a 9 speed. The ratio was close to 5th and came in handy because it eliminated the need to drop into low and go "right and down", epsecially when turning.I'm just lazy, I reckon.That's me, i've only heard of "cheater gear" in 9 and 13 speeds,only tried it a time or two. Quote Producer of poorly photo-chopped pictures since 1999. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterwelder Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 8LL has it to. It's where lo is on the "low"side just on the high side. Same as the 9 and 13. It works but really feels like it shouldn't be in there.I can't believe there are u tube videos calling it the hidden gear. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
other dog Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 8LL has it to. It's where lo is on the "low"side just on the high side. Same as the 9 and 13.It works but really feels like it shouldn't be in there.I can't believe there are u tube videos calling it the hidden gear.I only drove a dump truck with an 8LL, hauling dirt at the shop when we had to biggerize the driveway. That was for about half a day, and about a 300 yard haul. I never drove a 15 speed deep reduction. Quote Producer of poorly photo-chopped pictures since 1999. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm still trying to figure out an extra gear on a 15-speed. Don't know where that would be. I'm like everyone else, familiar with "nothing" & "double-nothing" on a 13-speed. But my 15-speed doesn't have any unused gears... 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterwelder Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 My spicer 10sp uses them all to. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 So, basically, if you gave a 15-speed, & aren't using "1st" in high range, you are missing 6th gear... Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post theakerstwo Posted August 18, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2014 Who ever told you about a cheater gear was having fun with you.A 15 speed eaton has 12 useable ratios.It is a 10 speed with a deep reduction which has 5 lower ratios but 3 will be same speed as others when in low range.There is another way of explaining it like there is 2 lower ratios below 1st gear in low range. 4 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jdfordhd Posted August 18, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Who ever told you about a cheater gear was having fun with you.A 15 speed eaton has 12 useable ratios.It is a 10 speed with a deep reduction which has 5 lower ratios but 3 will be same speed as others when in low range.There is another way of explaining it like there is 2 lower ratios below 1st gear in low range. BINGO...!! We have a winner..! My Superdog has an RTX15715 (X denotes std. shift pattern, single OD). When shaking a heavy load, I run thru all 5 stick positions in "deep", then shift back up to the 4th stick position simultaneously flipping the deep button which gets it ready for two gears in the low side of the range selector. Then shift the range selector to high for the remaining 5 gears. This yields a total of 12 perfectly spaced ratios with no duplicates. This method will gain the most ground speed before an air shift takes place. Edited August 18, 2014 by jdfordhd 3 Quote "If it ain't got a motor, I ain't interested.!!" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Exactly!!!They really should have called them "12-speeds", shouldn't they?!Mine is the RTF-915. Direct in high gear. Normal shift pattern.If you swap the gearsets in the box to make it an overdrive in high (see pic), every gear (except "direct") gets raised one notch, so the 4th and 5th positions would be reversed. If you didn't like that pattern, Fuller offers a shift plate (basically the top of the trans) which reverses the 4th and 5th shifter fork movement. This would put the pattern back to "normal". There's where all the "x-pattern" and "h-pattern" business comes from.The older boxes, incidentally, should have an "O" in the number to indicate overdrive...like RTO-915. I can't tell you a blasted thing about the newer stuff.My RTF-915 would be Roadranger, Transmission, Front-shift-tower, 950 ft-lbs torque rating, 15 speeds. Elegant system, isn't it? Just wish it was an RTFO-915, with the X-pattern body... Maybe if I ever pull it out, I'll change it! 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Yes you can change from direct to over drive by swapping the gears around and I have did a lot of them in years past but when you do you will dislike it. It will have a coming home gear when in hi. There is too much of a split between the two gears.A factory o/d has all different gears in it and you end up with a smaller split from the factory set up.But in the early years we upgraded HP at over haul time and then next thing was add some speed.I never saw a man that was happy with swapping the gears.I never did try to figure the o/d ratio but its big. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
job14-1 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 BINGO...!! We have a winner..! My Superdog has an RTX15715 (X denotes std. shift pattern, single OD). When shaking a heavy load, I run thru all 5 stick positions in "deep", then shift back up to the 4th stick position simultaneously flipping the deep button which gets it ready for two gears in the low side of the range selector. Then shift the range selector to high for the remaining 5 gears. This yields a total of 12 perfectly spaced ratios with no duplicates. This method will gain the most ground speed before an air shift takes place. Used to do the same thing on my RD with a 8LL. My brother was brutal (on his truck) . Showed him how to do it, he said "Oh", but he would rather slip the clutch like riding a two stroke MX bike than use deep, think the blue button scared him. One reason I never let him drive mine. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stacksuperdog Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Used to do the same thing on my RD with a 8LL. My brother was brutal (on his truck) . Showed him how to do it, he said "Oh", but he would rather slip the clutch like riding a two stroke MX bike than use deep, think the blue button scared him. One reason I never let him drive mine.I could never figure out what was so hard about flipping that button. Guys never do it with 8lls. 1 Quote Matt Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
6368 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 When i went to look at the brockway the previous owner told me it was a nine speed. When i was looking underneath i saw the trans and knew it wasn't a nine speed because of the extra section on the back. I thought it looked like a fifteen speed but the id tag was long gone. Then i found the deep reduction switch next to seat ( it was safety wired in out position). When i asked the guy about it he said " I never used it it was too slow". What is strange about this trans is you don't use the first gear position in the high side. It does act like a nine speed instead of a ten speed like any fifteen speed i remember driving. So what is it? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Yes you can change from direct to over drive by swapping the gears around and I have did a lot of them in years past but when you do you will dislike it. It will have a coming home gear when in hi. There is too much of a split between the two gears.A factory o/d has all different gears in it and you end up with a smaller split from the factory set up.But in the early years we upgraded HP at over haul time and then next thing was add some speed.I never saw a man that was happy with swapping the gears.I never did try to figure the o/d ratio but its big. According to the Fuller service manual...15-speed directDeep ReductionR - 13.03:11 - 12.0:12 - 9.42:13 - 7.45:14 - 5.90:15 - 4.78:1Low RangeR - 8.73:11 - 8.05:12 - 6.30:1 (22%)3 - 4.99:1 (21%)4 - 3.95:1 (21%)5 - 3.20:1 (19%)High RangeR - 2.73:16 - 2.51:1 (22%)7 - 1.97:1 (22%)8 - 1.56:1 (21%)9 - 1.24:1 (21%)10 - 1.00:1 (19%)15-speed overdriveDeep ReductionR - 10.55:11 - 9.73:12 - 7.62:13 - 6.03:14 - 4.78:15 - 3.87:1Low RangeR - 7.06:11 - 6.51:12 - 5.10:1 (22%)3 - 4.07:1 (20%)4 - 3.20:1 (21%)5 - 2.59:1 (19%)High RangeR - 2.21:16 - 2.04:1 (21%)7 - 1.59:1 (22%)8 - 1.26:1 (21%)9 - 1.00:1 (21%)10 - 0.81:1 (19%)Swapping the drive gears changes the speed of the countershafts. The spacing between gears is determined by the relative number of teeth on the various gear sets. 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Exactly!!!They really should have called them "12-speeds", shouldn't they?!Mine is the RTF-915. Direct in high gear. Normal shift pattern.If you swap the gearsets in the box to make it an overdrive in high (see pic), every gear (except "direct") gets raised one notch, so the 4th and 5th positions would be reversed. If you didn't like that pattern, Fuller offers a shift plate (basically the top of the trans) which reverses the 4th and 5th shifter fork movement. This would put the pattern back to "normal". There's where all the "x-pattern" and "h-pattern" business comes from.The older boxes, incidentally, should have an "O" in the number to indicate overdrive...like RTO-915. I can't tell you a blasted thing about the newer stuff.My RTF-915 would be Roadranger, Transmission, Front-shift-tower, 950 ft-lbs torque rating, 15 speeds. Elegant system, isn't it? Just wish it was an RTFO-915, with the X-pattern body... Maybe if I ever pull it out, I'll change it!Sorry...the "T" is for "twin countershaft". Stepped out for a moment there... Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 O is overdrive.X is overdrive with pattern "fixed". Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slpwlker Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I could never figure out what was so hard about flipping that button. Guys never do it with 8lls.Had a guy when we had dumps that would not touch it for any reason. Think he was scared or tearing up driveline. I do not know why and he is in the fed pen. Damn truck was a beast. Slower then hell but would go everywhere. 270 Cat 8LL with 5.29's in the back Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/36704-eaton-fuller/#findComment-256538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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