kscarbel2 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Background: Ford joint-ventured with Jiangling Motors Corp. (JMC) in 1997 to build European Ford “Transit” full-size vans (the latest version now being launched in the U.S. market). Ford increased its stake in JMC to (a still modest) 31.5 percent in 2013. Located in east China's Jiangxi Province, the JMC-Ford joint venture also builds JMC-branded SUVs, pickups, vans and light trucks. Ford also has a passenger car joint venture with Changan Automobile Co. in Chongqing. In August 2012, 2nd tier level vehicle manufacturer JMC acquired a small, young truckmaker called Taiyuan Changan Heavy Truck Co. Ltd. (founded in 2007) for US$42 million and renamed it JMC Heavy Duty Vehicle Corporation (JMCH). In 2010 and 2011, Taiyuan Changan Heavy Truck had only managed to sell about 3,000 trucks annually, and 2012 January thru July sales only amounted to 309 units. In contrast, China’s top five truckmakers each sell 100,000 to 220,000 trucks annually. “JMC’s acquisition represents a great opportunity to continue to expand the breadth of our business in China across vehicle segments,” said Dave Schoch, Chairman and CEO, Ford Motor China. “A strong heavy truck operation like Taiyuan will complement Ford’s existing passenger car and light commercial vehicle operations here in the world’s largest and fastest-growing vehicle market.” “With Ford’s support, JMC will quickly introduce new products and improve Taiyuan’s (JMCH) existing truck products in order to bolster the competitiveness of Taiyuan Heavy Truck,” said Schoch. “Ford has enormous experience and world-class products and technologies, including in the heavy truck business, which can be deployed to support JMC after the acquisition.” Note: While automobile joint ventures in China have been enormously successful due to the preference for foreign brands, there to date has never been a successful truckmaking joint venture owing to the rapid development of Chinese heavy trucks and satisfaction with domestic brands. In April 2013, JMC signed a 12-year technology license contract with Ford Otosan* to produce the latter company’s “Ecotorq” diesel truck engines (JMC code-named J17) for upcoming Ford Otosan “Cargo” based heavy trucks (JMC code-named J19). In the heavy Cargo range, Ford Otosan has been offering the 10.3-liter Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) Cursor 10 found in Iveco trucks. Following last years announcement (below), we learned that Ford Otosan will produce the 11.1-liter Cursor 11 and 12.9-liter Cursor 13 under license in Turkey (The Cursor 11 replaces the Cursor 10). For the JMC-Ford joint venture to find success in China’s heavy truck market, they would have to build these FPT engines in China. Ford Otosan is to invest US$ 100 million in the production of the new 11-liter and 13-liter Ecotorq engines. The intellectual property rights of the engines, designed by Ford Otosan engineers, belong to Ford Otosan. The new Ecotorq engines that will be manufactured at Euro 6 emission standards, are expected to have wide use including heavy commercial vehicles as well as industrial and marine applications. JMC agreed to pay Ford Otosan an initial licensing fee of one million Euros, plus an additional 150 to 190 Euros for each Ford Otosan-based J17 engine produced. JMC agreed not to directly or indirectly design or develop a competing engine to the contractual products during the contract term. Engine production at the JMC/Ford joint venture’s new US$82 million facility is expected to launch in the second half of 2015 and initially build up to 10,000 engines a year. This year on July 24, JMC announced plans to sign a technology license contract for the JMC-branded J19 heavy truck project with Ford Motor, Ford Global Technology**, and Ford Otosan. JMC will gain a technology license for the design, manufacture and service of Ford Otosan Cargo heavy trucks including chassis, cab, and related parts and components. Under the planned agreement, JMC will pay Ford Otosan an initial licensing fee of 8 million Euros, plus an additional 330 to 485 Euros for each chassis constructed with Ford Otosan-licensed components, and 20 to 40 Euros for each truck completed with a Ford Otosan Cargo cab. Some of the media has exaggerated what’s taking place here. In summary, JMC will build Ford Otosan-derived heavy trucks under license wearing the JMC badge, and principally for the Chinese domestic market. Ford Otosan remains responsible for global Ford heavy truck sales. While Otosan has done an impressive job of keeping the Cargo series updated and competitive, Otosan truly needs a massive investment from Ford so as to design/build an all-new heavy truck that can compete with the latest European and Chinese heavy trucks. * Ford Otomotiv Sanayi A.S. (Ford Otosan) is incorporated in Turkey and operates as a joint venture between Ford Motor Company and Koç Holding. Ford Otosan is currently the global heavy truck making arm of Ford Motor Company. While the Ford/Koc cooperation dates back 54 years, the relationship began when Henry Ford made the Koc family a distributor in 1928. Today, Ford and Koc Group each hold a 41 percent equity stake each, and the remaining shares are listed on the Istanbul Stock Exchange. ** Ford Global Technologies, LLC owns, manages and commercializes patents and copyrights for Ford Motors. The company was incorporated in 2002 and is based in Dearborn, Michigan. Ford Global Technologies, LLC operates as a subsidiary of Ford Motor Co. PDF Brochure - Ford 1846T 4x2 tractor (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ford.com.tr%2Fcs%2FBlobServer%3Fblobtable%3DMungoBlobs%26blobcol%3Durldata%26blobheadervalue1%3Dattachment%253Bfilename%253D%25221846T_Katalog%2B.pdf%2522%26blobheadervalue2%3Dabinary%253Bcharset%253DUTF-8%26blobheadername1%3DContent-Disposition%26blobheadername2%3DMDT-Type%26blobheader%3Dapplication%252Fpdf%26blobwhere%3D1214447692351%26blobkey%3Did&ei=-1tHVP2cDZapyASd0IKoCQ&usg=AFQjCNH7ELcqWN_YBMz3mLR0x9uaych3hQ&bvm=bv.77880786,d.aWw&cad=rjt) . 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Horse Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Background: Ford joint-ventured with Jiangling Motors Corp. (JMC) in 1997 to build European Ford “Transit” full-size vans (the latest version now being launched in the U.S. market). Ford increased its stake in JMC to (a still modest) 31.5 percent in 2013. Located in east China's Jiangxi Province, the JMC-Ford joint venture also builds JMC-branded SUVs, pickups, vans and light trucks. Ford also has a passenger car joint venture with Changan Automobile Co. in Chongqing.In August 2012, 2nd tier level vehicle manufacturer JMC acquired a small, young truckmaker called Taiyuan Changan Heavy Truck Co. Ltd. (founded in 2007) for US$42 million and renamed it JMC Heavy Duty Vehicle Corporation (JMCH).In 2010 and 2011, Taiyuan Changan Heavy Truck had only managed to sell about 3,000 trucks annually, and 2012 January thru July sales only amounted to 309 units. In contrast, China’s top five truckmakers each sell 100,000 to 220,000 trucks annually. “JMC’s acquisition represents a great opportunity to continue to expand the breadth of our business in China across vehicle segments,” said Dave Schoch, Chairman and CEO, Ford Motor China. “A strong heavy truck operation like Taiyuan will complement Ford’s existing passenger car and light commercial vehicle operations here in the world’s largest and fastest-growing vehicle market.”“With Ford’s support, JMC will quickly introduce new products and improve Taiyuan’s (JMCH) existing truck products in order to bolster the competitiveness of Taiyuan Heavy Truck,” said Schoch. “Ford has enormous experience and world-class products and technologies, including in the heavy truck business, which can be deployed to support JMC after the acquisition.”Note: While automobile joint ventures in China have been enormously successful due to the preference for foreign brands, there to date has never been a successful truckmaking joint venture owing to the rapid development of Chinese heavy trucks and satisfaction with domestic brands.In April 2013, JMC signed a 12-year technology license contract with Ford Otosan* to produce the latter company’s “Ecotorq” diesel truck engines (JMC code-named J17) for upcoming Ford Otosan “Cargo” based heavy trucks (JMC code-named J19). In the heavy Cargo range, Ford Otosan has been offering the 10.3-liter Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) Cursor 10 found in Iveco trucks. Following last years announcement (below), we learned that Ford Otosan will produce the 11.1-liter Cursor 11 and 12.9-liter Cursor 13 under license in Turkey (The Cursor 11 replaces the Cursor 10). For the JMC-Ford joint venture to find success in China’s heavy truck market, they would have to build these FPT engines in China.Ford Otosan is to invest US$ 100 million in the production of the new 11-liter and 13-liter Ecotorq engines. The intellectual property rights of the engines, designed by Ford Otosan engineers, belong to Ford Otosan. The new Ecotorq engines that will be manufactured at Euro 6 emission standards, are expected to have wide use including heavy commercial vehicles as well as industrial and marine applications.JMC agreed to pay Ford Otosan an initial licensing fee of one million Euros, plus an additional 150 to 190 Euros for each Ford Otosan-based J17 engine produced. JMC agreed not to directly or indirectly design or develop a competing engine to the contractual products during the contract term.Engine production at the JMC/Ford joint venture’s new US$82 million facility is expected to launch in the second half of 2015 and initially build up to 10,000 engines a year.This year on July 24, JMC signed a technology license contract for the JMC-branded J19 heavy truck project with Ford Motor, Ford Global Technology**, and Ford Otosan. JMC gained a technology license for the design, manufacture and service of Ford Otosan Cargo heavy trucks including chassis, cab, and related parts and components. JMC agreed to pay Ford Otosan an initial licensing fee of 8 million Euros, plus an additional 330 to 485 Euros for each chassis constructed with Ford Otosan-licensed components, and 20 to 40 Euros for each truck completed with a Ford Otosan Cargo cab.Some of the media has exaggerated what’s taking place here. In summary, JMC will build Ford Otosan-derived heavy trucks under license wearing the JMC badge, and principally for the Chinese domestic market. Ford Otosan remains responsible for global Ford heavy truck sales.While Otosan has done an impressive job of keeping the Cargo series updated and competitive, Otosan truly needs a massive investment from Ford so as to design/build an all-new heavy truck that can compete with the latest European and Chinese heavy trucks. * Ford Otomotiv Sanayi A.S. (Ford Otosan) is incorporated in Turkey and operates as a joint venture between Ford Motor Company and Koç Holding. Ford Otosan is currently the global heavy truck making arm of Ford Motor Company. While the Ford/Koc cooperation dates back 54 years, the relationship began when Henry Ford made the Koc family a distributor in 1928. Today, Ford and Koc Group each hold a 41 percent equity stake each, and the remaining shares are listed on the Istanbul Stock Exchange.** Ford Global Technologies, LLC owns, manages and commercializes patents and copyrights for Ford Motors. The company was incorporated in 2002 and is based in Dearborn, Michigan. Ford Global Technologies, LLC operates as a subsidiary of Ford Motor Co.PDF Brochure - Ford 1846T 4x2 tractor (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ford.com.tr%2Fcs%2FBlobServer%3Fblobtable%3DMungoBlobs%26blobcol%3Durldata%26blobheadervalue1%3Dattachment%253Bfilename%253D%25221846T_Katalog%2B.pdf%2522%26blobheadervalue2%3Dabinary%253Bcharset%253DUTF-8%26blobheadername1%3DContent-Disposition%26blobheadername2%3DMDT-Type%26blobheader%3Dapplication%252Fpdf%26blobwhere%3D1214447692351%26blobkey%3Did&ei=-1tHVP2cDZapyASd0IKoCQ&usg=AFQjCNH7ELcqWN_YBMz3mLR0x9uaych3hQ&bvm=bv.77880786,d.aWw&cad=rjt).I must be dense.Just what does the following say:In the heavy Cargo range, Ford Otosan has been offering the 10.3-liter Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) Cursor 10 found in Iveco trucks. Following last years announcement (below), we learned that Ford Otosan will produce the 11.1-liter Cursor 11 and 12.9-liter Cursor 13 under license in Turkey (The Cursor 11 replaces the Cursor 10). For the JMC-Ford joint venture to find success in China’s heavy truck market, they would have to build these FPT engines in China.Ford Otosan is to invest US$ 100 million in the production of the new 11-liter and 13-liter Ecotorq engines. The intellectual property rights of the engines, designed by Ford Otosan engineers, belong to Ford Otosan. The new Ecotorq engines that will be manufactured at Euro 6 emission standards, are expected to have wide use including heavy commercial vehicles as well as industrial and marine applications.In first paragraph, clearly states these are FPT engines that are being built under license in Turkey.Second paragraph talks about "intellectual property rights"...designed by Ford Otosan engineers" ...that.."belong to Ford Otosan".What am I missing-they didn't design anything-they are building Fiat Power under license!Also, just how close does this guy Marchione want to FPT to be involved with any Ford re entry into heavy trucks? I assume FPT is NOT a spin off and is in fact under Chrysler/Fiat control??? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/#findComment-264073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead204 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The CL9000 got reborn and re styled! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/#findComment-264080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Horse Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The CL9000 got reborn and re styled!Nah- the "two story Falcon" has at least a foot and a half over the Cargo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/#findComment-264084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 I must be dense.Just what does the following say:In the heavy Cargo range, Ford Otosan has been offering the 10.3-liter Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) Cursor 10 found in Iveco trucks. Following last years announcement (below), we learned that Ford Otosan will produce the 11.1-liter Cursor 11 and 12.9-liter Cursor 13 under license in Turkey (The Cursor 11 replaces the Cursor 10). For the JMC-Ford joint venture to find success in China’s heavy truck market, they would have to build these FPT engines in China.Ford Otosan is to invest US$ 100 million in the production of the new 11-liter and 13-liter Ecotorq engines. The intellectual property rights of the engines, designed by Ford Otosan engineers, belong to Ford Otosan. The new Ecotorq engines that will be manufactured at Euro 6 emission standards, are expected to have wide use including heavy commercial vehicles as well as industrial and marine applications.In first paragraph, clearly states these are FPT engines that are being built under license in Turkey.Second paragraph talks about "intellectual property rights"...designed by Ford Otosan engineers" ...that.."belong to Ford Otosan".What am I missing-they didn't design anything-they are building Fiat Power under license!Also, just how close does this guy Marchione want to FPT to be involved with any Ford re entry into heavy trucks? I assume FPT is NOT a spin off and is in fact under Chrysler/Fiat control???Before I respond, I have to say that I was troubled by your recent derogatory “Ruski” comment. It was rude and inappropriate. While I’ve never met Vladislav and the other Eastern Europeans who read this forum, I as an American was embarrassed, because your remarks put America in a bad light, which inherently reflects negatively on all Americans including myself. Living in the past is not going to create a better future. In a world which has become much smaller and intertwined, there is no place for such demeaning rhetoric. Thousands of immigrants from Eastern Europe, as well as Western Europe, came to our great country since its founding. From Irving Berlin and George Gershwin to Alexander Seversky and Igor Sikorsky, the list of Russian Americans that have enhanced the fabric of America is impressive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_Americans and http://www.rach-c.org/pages/russianamericans.htm).As a nation of immigrants, we have an obligation to hold ourselves to higher standards and not ridicule the people of other global regions simply because we don’t care for their governments. Most people worldwide are genuinely a good lot........it is the governments that disappoint. Ford Otosan is paying FPT for a license to build the Cursor 11 and Cursor 13, which includes installing their own external accessories to meet their unique requirements, and installing a valve cover that wears the Ford name. Ford Otosan’s agreement with FPT and license payments then allows them to call it a Ford Otosan-designed powerplant.This is no different than the Navistar HT570 that was modified for the Volkswagen Constellation requirement and rebadged Volkswagen NGD. Nor is it any different than the current 6.7-liter Ford Powerstroke. There’s nothing American about the Powerstroke, as its design was farmed out to the Austrian contract engineering design firm AVL. Ford ordered a 6.7-liter diesel V-8, and AVL went to work. Ford was the paying customer, so the engine naturally wears the Ford name. FPT (Fiat Powertrain Technologies) is under the control of parent company CNH Industrial, which controls Iveco, Case-IH, New Holland and Steyr. Sergio Marchionne’s FPT powertrain unit builds a good engine, but very much needs to increase sales. Thus licensing the Cursor 11 and Cursor 13 to Ford Otosan is a smart move with minimal conflict to Iveco. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/#findComment-264129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Horse Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Before I respond, I have to say that I was troubled by your recent derogatory “Ruski” comment. It was rude and inappropriate. While I’ve never met Vladislav and the other Eastern Europeans who read this forum, I as an American was embarrassed, because your remarks put America in a bad light, which inherently reflects negatively on all Americans including myself. Living in the past is not going to create a better future. In a world which has become much smaller and intertwined, there is no place for such demeaning rhetoric. Thousands of immigrants from Eastern Europe, as well as Western Europe, came to our great country since its founding. From Irving Berlin and George Gershwin to Alexander Seversky and Igor Sikorsky, the list of Russian Americans that have enhanced the fabric of America is impressive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_Americans and http://www.rach-c.org/pages/russianamericans.htm).As a nation of immigrants, we have an obligation to hold ourselves to higher standards and not ridicule the people of other global regions simply because we don’t care for their governments. Most people worldwide are genuinely a good lot........it is the governments that disappoint. Ford Otosan is paying FPT for a license to build the Cursor 11 and Cursor 13, which includes installing their own external accessories to meet their unique requirements, and installing a valve cover that wears the Ford name. Ford Otosan’s agreement with FPT and license payments then allows them to call it a Ford Otosan-designed powerplant.This is no different than the Navistar HT570 that was modified for the Volkswagen Constellation requirement and rebadged Volkswagen NGD. Nor is it any different than the current 6.7-liter Ford Powerstroke. There’s nothing American about the Powerstroke, as its design was farmed out to the Austrian contract engineering design firm AVL. Ford ordered a 6.7-liter diesel V-8, and AVL went to work. Ford was the paying customer, so the engine naturally wears the Ford name. FPT (Fiat Powertrain Technologies) is under the control of parent company CNH Industrial, which controls Iveco, Case-IH, New Holland and Steyr. Sergio Marchionne’s FPT powertrain unit builds a good engine, but very much needs to increase sales. Thus licensing the Cursor 11 and Cursor 13 to Ford Otosan is a smart move with minimal conflict to Iveco.And before I respond to your comment, I would have to say go back and read the thread again. Perhaps then your panties won't remain twisted! Was my use of the term Ruski offensive? I never thought of it as such but rather an abbreviation for things Russian.Was my comment on Russian design offensive? I don't think so- my opinion. If you think typical Russian (make that Ruski as that is not degrogatory IMO) automotive design has typically been good, that is your opinion. The truck in question looks good-hence my tongue in cheek comment on hacking Ford's design center.I would also add that after your first little "admonition", I apologized to Vlad-which I believe he acknowledged. I hardly think I attacked all those of Russian ancestry with my comment.Lighten up pal-you take yourself too seriously. Now, to get to the issue, I guess what you are saying is use of a Ford logo on a valve cover, or perhaps modifying an accessory drive, qualifies them to say they "designed" the engine. So be it. Sounds to me like they are playing word games Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/#findComment-264140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 I would also add that after your first little "admonition", I apologized to Vlad-which I believe he acknowledged. I hardly think I attacked all those of Russian ancestry with my comment.I had felt that I responded to your misconception in a friendly and polite manner (below), making you aware of the actual fact. I had no idea you felt admonished, nor was that my intention. I apologize for somehow giving you that impression.I humbly suggest that terms such as "Ruskys", which in the U.S. has a history of being used in a derogitory fashion, are best avoided on the forum out of respect for others. Truck (and car) sales marketing in this day and age does indeed involve a great deal of colorful creativity.Not so fast my friend. GAZ didn't copy anyone. In 2006, GAZ purchased the assets of troubled LDV, a UK-based van manufacturer. This gave GAZ the modern LDV Maxus van. That's the cab on their new medium truck.LDV made a good van, but wasn't large or diversified enough to survive.The GAZ Gazelle (LDV Maxus), Ford Transit, Mercedes-Benz Sprint, Fiat Ducato and particularly the Volkswagen Crafter all have unique styling themes. Come to the IAA commercial truck show and see them in person (Sept 25 - Oct 2).http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/37160-russian-vehicle-maker-gaz-launches-new-gazon-next-medium-truck/ Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/#findComment-264149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 A very happy Bill Ford at the Ford Otosan plant. Bill has long felt a personal connection with Koc Group owing to the long time friendship forged by Henry Ford.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/#findComment-264150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Horse Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 A very happy Bill Ford at the Ford Otosan plant. Bill has long felt a personal connection with Koc Group owing to the long time friendship forged by Henry Ford..Well in any case, give the FordOtosan workers a "A" for dress code. Look at any US assembly scenes and it seems "hip hop" shorts, sneakers etc are acceptable. These FordOtosan guys look like they actually are wearing work shoes, reflectorized safety striping on pants etc. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/#findComment-264242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Nah- the "two story Falcon" has at least a foot and a half over the CargoInterestingly, the Ford Otosan Cargo and the CL-9000 both share the same height of 125.8 inches.Transcontinental Mark 2 - 127.6" (unladen)CL-9000 - 125.8"Ford Otosan Cargo 1846T - 125.8"Transcontinental Mark 2- 124.3" (laden)(cab heights excluding air fairings)What was the height of the H-Model?. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/37456-update-on-ford%E2%80%99s-expansion-into-china%E2%80%99s-heavy-truck-market/#findComment-264261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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