So pissed off.........

[other dog]

...and everybody rushes to look up "bloviate"...

[carlotpilot]

...and everybody rushes to look up "bloviate"...

PROBABLY

[Maddog13407]

I try not to buy anything Craftsman anymore. been that way for a few years ago, everything is made in China. pissed me off a few years ago when Sears quit makin the old yellow and black tape measures. they started with the red and black ones that all of a sudden weren't warrenteed anymore. I remember when Sears use to actually sell the tape and spring so you could fix and wind up your own tape measure about 10 years ago.

[b615rich]

It can be a little depressing if you think about it too long or hard. Years back I got a replacement craftsman combination wrench which when I got home saw it said made in Japan. I felt the same way then but it's been OK. A lot of Craftsman stuff is still good, and over the years they've happily exchanged wrenches, sockets, drivers, hammers, hoses, axes, shovels, etc. I just got a replacement for my 30 yr old maul, for the broken hickory handle, they gave me fiberglass. Nothing lasts as long as the memories. Just glad you're teaching the kids to use tools, the next generation will be mechanically helpless. The new trucks are powerful, start right up, and are easy to drive (and steer) - we keep the history alive. Our greatest loss will be the knowledge - how many guys can adjust points, rebuild a carb, starter, or alternator, etc.? R models and B's are one thing, but most of the experts on the chain drives I've met aren't even on line.

[1958 F.W.D.]

true that b615rich.....true that.

[39 Baby Mack]

Just because it comes of the Snap-on truck doesn't mean it's all made in the USA either.

All the hard Snap-on tools I'm pretty sure are American made but a lot of, if not all the stuff in, in the Blue Point line

is now made overseas.

Was looking at a "Snap-on" 18 volt cordless 1/2" impact the other day, couldn't find a country of origin for the gun itself but the battery

clearly read "made in China"

Ron

[gearhead204]

Don't think i'll be going to Fastenall for a 1" drive set $3500 seems a little steep, but I'm kinda cheap on things I use once or twice a year,

I bought New Brittan tools from NAPA 1/4 thru 3/4 drive in 1984 as a graduation present for my self from high school, and wouldn't you know same shit as sears life time warranty, they take a nice well machined item and hand you a crudely finished oversized piece of crap!. I wish I had a S-K dealer closer to me, I have had excellent luck with there product and not near the cost as my snap on, mac, or matco stuff.

[220cummins]

Yeah, I got my first Craftsman 3/8 ratchet set for Christmas 55 years ago. Worked on everything from lawnmowers and go carts to trucks and a dozen cars at least in between and still working. Never had to replace any of the set.

It's a damn shame the government can't figure it out... Value added manufacturing is the true source of all wealth. Example -

Man "A" mines iron ore, employs hundreds of people to refine it (adds value) and all those people pay income taxes

Man "B" makes the iron ore into steel, employs hundreds of people (adding value) and all those people pay income taxes

Man "C" draws the steel into wire coils, employs hundreds of people (adding value) and all those people pay income taxes

Man "D" forms the wire into bolts, employs hundreds of people (adding value) and all those people pay income taxes

Man "E" assembles bolts and steel sheet and a 1000 other similarly manufactured items into farm tractors (or airplanes, or trucks, or vacuum cleaners)

and a similar story for 1000's of manufactured products. And all those workers employ doctors and dentists and plumbers, and accountants, etc.

But when you tax the living shat out of the employers you can finally, eventually, kill the whole damn thing. Not to mention the non-enforcement of our foreign trade agreements.

Sorry to bloviate. My two cents.

There is no doubt I agree with you except of the part of corporate taxes but that's another story. We have lived in a time (last 35 years) where maximizing profits for shareholders including CEO bonus's are what drives business. It's all about greed. The better the company performs on paper the bigger the bonus' for the upper management is. Layoffs and plant closing increases profits. The upside down trade agreements only strengthen that. Free trade isn't free it cost jobs like you noted. Its a race to the bottom. Asia is the center manufacturing that once was here in the US. Dirt Cheap Labor, uneducated workers, corrupt governments that subsidize industries, and no environmental laws, basically no regulation of any type, make higher profit margins. Higher profit margins blow small towns and communities off the map. Sears held out for a good number of years but were forced into it. Everybody else is over there making tools dirt cheap and selling them here cheaper. The days of quality are over. I have refused to buy Craftsman for a few years now. I have taken old Craftsman tools that were just wore out over DECADES back for exchange; only to have them replaced with Chinese and Taiwanese made tools that broke MONTHS later. Kolbalt and husky are made overseas too. Basically anything you see at the local stores is not made here. Start checking labels and you'll see. I only buy Snap-on now. I gladly buy the Made in the USA from them, but some of there stuff is made over there as well. I love how all politicians talk about jobs and how they are job creators. Then they talk tax breaks for everyone. How about tax breaks for the companies that make stuff here? How about instead of just jobs, talk about good paying manufacturing jobs here? Its a Trickle Up effect. Its not only the politicians fault it's society's fault. Everyone wants something for nothing. When everyone wants the stuff cheap they get cheap stuff from CHINA. My only hope is that when my children are grown up, that the attitude will change and we will see a RESHORING of manufacturing...

[hurstscrambler]

Amen 220, well said. Andy

[41chevy]

Yeah, I got my first Craftsman 3/8 ratchet set for Christmas 55 years ago. Worked on everything from lawnmowers and go carts to trucks and a dozen cars at least in between and still working. Never had to replace any of the set.

It's a damn shame the government can't figure it out... Value added manufacturing is the true source of all wealth. Example -

Man "A" mines iron ore, employs hundreds of people to refine it (adds value) and all those people pay income taxes

Man "B" makes the iron ore into steel, employs hundreds of people (adding value) and all those people pay income taxes

Man "C" draws the steel into wire coils, employs hundreds of people (adding value) and all those people pay income taxes

Man "D" forms the wire into bolts, employs hundreds of people (adding value) and all those people pay income taxes

Man "E" assembles bolts and steel sheet and a 1000 other similarly manufactured items into farm tractors (or airplanes, or trucks, or vacuum cleaners)

and a similar story for 1000's of manufactured products. And all those workers employ doctors and dentists and plumbers, and accountants, etc.

But when you tax the living shat out of the employers you can finally, eventually, kill the whole damn thing. Not to mention the non-enforcement of our foreign trade agreements.

Sorry to bloviate. My two cents.

"A" mining is a no no per EPA and OSHA

"B" Steel Mills are a no no per EPA and OSHA

"C" Wire coils come from a manufacturing friendly country

"D" Cheaper to make those products overseas than deal with EPA, OSHA and IRS and NIMBY's.

Many batteries are made off shore because the Federal, State and Local Permits, OSHA compliance, EPA regulations, Environmental Impact studies and NIMBY's make it more cost effective to just open off shore.

Sadly we have done it to ourselves with onerous regulations made by people with no practical knowledge of the real world.

A pair of prime examples are the proposed EPA regulations on Co2 emissions. . . the Pine Forests in the Northwest will NOT be compliant with the allowable amounts set by the EPA.

EPA requires 10 % addition of a recycled unknown fiber based ethanol additive to all Gasoline. The additive does not exist yet. The original idea was "if we mandate the use of this compound some company will develop it" Hasn't happened. So rather than drop the law, the EPA fines the gasoline companies for non compliance. The EPA has just raised the amount of non existent additive to 15% and the fines for non compliance accordingly. Since the EPA regulations are set by the EPA alone they cannot be over ruled with out the courts help, and they will not get involved.

How can any manufacturing business start or stay open with this environment? Not to mention the new Corporate tax rates, required Health coverage and EOE hiring requirements the are based on race and not the ability to do the job. Paul

[thomastractorsvc]

I buy typical hand and impact tools at Harbor Freight and have had great luck. Not all of the tools are made in China the professional end tools are made in Taiwan and in ISO 9000 factory the same as in the US. China and India also has US owned/ partnered factory's that are also ISO 9000 compliant as well as other certifications and make decent tools otherwise the name brands would not make them there. I don't like to spent 3K on a 3/4 ratchet set that I can get for under $50 with a coupon at HF. I don't know who has money to buy tools like that other than the Government.

I have not had any more failures with the Harbor Freight tools than I have had with other "Top Quality" brands and I don't have to fight the rep to get a replacement or wait on one to come in. Harbor Freight tools have come a long way and the standardization and compliance is very similar to the US. A HF 3/4" ratchet had a 12ft pipe, a two hundred pound man on the end of it and it still works, I had to use the HF 1" impact with a 3/4 adapter to loosen the spindle nut using a OTC socket. I have an expensive 1/2" drive non ratcheting bar style torque wrench and like what was said before the ratcheting HF style are dead on and I have never had to calibrate them.

One good thing about HF is I have no qualms about making my own specialized tools out of them due to the price. I actually pick up a set or to of the wrenches or sockets to keep on the shelf just for that purpose. Years ago I used to hit pawn shops up and yard sales.

The bottom line anything that is sold in the US, employs someone at a dock, rail yard, trucking company or store and you should not have to pay 3-4 times more because it is made in the U.S.

Added-

My neighbor holds a patent on a mud flap bracket that I am sure most have seen, when he was ready to start producing a proto type for testing he needed a mold made, (we are talking about a mud flap bracket not the hood for the space shuttle) and it was over $20K a 6 month lead time to be made in the US. He ended up finding a place, through another business deal unrelated, in China at a ISO 9000 shop which was spot on to the technical drawing and he had it in his hands in 4 weeks for 2K.

[mrsmackpaul]

well all I can say is when everybody wants something for nothing it can only go on so long before we all get what we deserve NOTHING no jobs for our kids grand kids or even us no pride in what we do because the sad thing is most of us didnt care to start with thats why we bought that cheap tool TV oven car what ever I remember once upon a time when we were not just buying a product we were buying our future so I guess if we are to cheap to invest in our own countrys future we will get what we deserve so next time you go shopping just think a bit further down the road than your hip pocket about the reel cost of what your buying or saving

Paul

[thomastractorsvc]

well all I can say is when everybody wants something for nothing it can only go on so long before we all get what we deserve NOTHING no jobs for our kids grand kids or even us no pride in what we do because the sad thing is most of us didnt care to start with thats why we bought that cheap tool TV oven car what ever I remember once upon a time when we were not just buying a product we were buying our future so I guess if we are to cheap to invest in our own countrys future we will get what we deserve so next time you go shopping just think a bit further down the road than your hip pocket about the reel cost of what your buying or saving

Paul

I here what you are saying but John Deere does not charge less for part made in China or India than one made in Waterloo Iowa.

[other dog]

I buy typical hand and impact tools at Harbor Freight and have had great luck. Not all of the tools are made in China the professional end tools are made in Taiwan and in ISO 9000 factory the same as in the US. China and India also has US owned/ partnered factory's that are also ISO 9000 compliant as well as other certifications and make decent tools otherwise the name brands would not make them there. I don't like to spent 3K on a 3/4 ratchet set that I can get for under $50 with a coupon at HF. I don't know who has money to buy tools like that other than the Government.

I have not had any more failures with the Harbor Freight tools than I have had with other "Top Quality" brands and I don't have to fight the rep to get a replacement or wait on one to come in. Harbor Freight tools have come a long way and the standardization and compliance is very similar to the US. A HF 3/4" ratchet had a 12ft pipe, a two hundred pound man on the end of it and it still works, I had to use the HF 1" impact with a 3/4 adapter to loosen the spindle nut using a OTC socket. I have an expensive 1/2" drive non ratcheting bar style torque wrench and like what was said before the ratcheting HF style are dead on and I have never had to calibrate them.

One good thing about HF is I have no qualms about making my own specialized tools out of them due to the price. I actually pick up a set or to of the wrenches or sockets to keep on the shelf just for that purpose. Years ago I used to hit pawn shops up and yard sales.

The bottom line anything that is sold in the US, employs someone at a dock, rail yard, trucking company or store and you should not have to pay 3-4 times more because it is made in the U.S.

Added-

My neighbor holds a patent on a mud flap bracket that I am sure most have seen, when he was ready to start producing a proto type for testing he needed a mold made, (we are talking about a mud flap bracket not the hood for the space shuttle) and it was over $20K a 6 month lead time to be made in the US. He ended up finding a place, through another business deal unrelated, in China at a ISO 9000 shop which was spot on to the technical drawing and he had it in his hands in 4 weeks for 2K.

I hate to be anti-union here because a lot of people are all about the union, but they're a big part of the problem in my opinion. Too many American workers just want more and more pay and benefits for doing less and less work and that's a big reason companies relocate, or shut down altogether.

[41chevy]

well all I can say is when everybody wants something for nothing it can only go on so long before we all get what we deserve NOTHING no jobs for our kids grand kids or even us no pride in what we do because the sad thing is most of us didnt care to start with thats why we bought that cheap tool TV oven car what ever I remember once upon a time when we were not just buying a product we were buying our future so I guess if we are to cheap to invest in our own countrys future we will get what we deserve so next time you go shopping just think a bit further down the road than your hip pocket about the reel cost of what your buying or saving

Paul

Unfortunately in the U.S. the Federal , State and Local agency's cause you to pay so many licensing costs, impact studies, permits and compliance bonds (any of which can stop you and cause the entire process and fees to start all over again) that you end up with very little or no money left to open and produce an item.

[carlotpilot]

and whose fault is that ?

[vision386]

I had an entirely different definition for "bloviate" rattling around my empty head!........................................Mark

[Joe Ditchkus]

Husky tools that I saw are made in China. Not sure on the Kobalt. Joe D.

[1958 F.W.D.]

LARGE received his 58-piece (China-Made) 3/8ths & 1/4 drive Craftsman set tonight from SWMBO, myself, and his brothers and sister. It did not matter to him that it was made in China. I did not bring it up, and he did not mention it. You guys should have all seen the look on his face, he was as happy as a pig in shit. His Haynes small engine repair manual is due to be delivered on Monday, and he has been hitting youtube videos explaining engines for the last 2-3 weeks. I have the computer programmed not to show any 2-cycle diesel videos.

[j hancock]

Will have to have "the talk" soon with Large.

Warn him about the seductive color called Alpine Green. Easy to rev up and all equipped with a blower and some with a turbo too...

[1958 F.W.D.]

Will have to have "the talk" soon with Large.

Warn him about the seductive color called Alpine Green. Easy to rev up and all equipped with a blower and some with a turbo too...

Maybe I should get him that Kobalt ball-peen hammer tomorrow when I go to Lowes..........

[j hancock]

Maybe I should get him that Kobalt ball-peen hammer tomorrow when I go to Lowes..........

That will work or a mini sledge.

[Red Horse]

Hah-was in Sears today picking up some stuff for my "kids" (not the "grandkids"-I'm probably a true senior citizen on this site). In any case, I refuse to buy China crap- so I'm looking for USA labels. Found a nice Craftsman nut driver set, A Swenson Speed Square, and a Craftsman 10" pipe wrench-painted Rigid orange- all made in USA. so there still is some Craftsman stuff US sourced.

And I do believe most of the Kobalt sockets, wrenchs etc are China.

Channel Lock USA!

Crescent-mostly China-they are now part of Apex Group

Irwin-China--They own Vise Grip-sucks when you look at a Vise Grip and it has the MIC on it.

[41chevy]

and whose fault is that ?

The fault goes back NIXON who created the EPA and NOAA by executive order in December of 1970 and gave them the power to enact laws and standards with out the approval of any other branch of government. The order was ratified in 1971. Jimmy Carter actually gave the EPA nearly unlimited power over all things affecting the environment and "quality of life" Obama named Gina Mcarthy( former CEO of The Earth Legal Defense Group) to replace former EPA head Lisa Jackson so she could advise the President on all U.N. environmental initiative projects.

[220cummins]

I hate to be anti-union here because a lot of people are all about the union, but they're a big part of the problem in my opinion. Too many American workers just want more and more pay and benefits for doing less and less work and that's a big reason companies relocate, or shut down altogether.

I'm union and proud but were a shrinking minority. The problem is so far past that, in my opinion. The unions shops that closed and moved to southern/non union states are closed up and moved overseas too. Union membership in the private sector is around 7% which is around the level it was during the Great Depression. So I say it's past the union/non-union argument. Its an American problem. We can't be a nation of service providers. We need to be a nation that makes things . Union or non union were all still Americans . I am first an American Citizen and second a union member. I'd rather buy products produced by my neighbor; either union or non union, than buy from some no name from a country in a far off land. Spend it where you make it.

If you'd rather buy cheap Asian import tools from Harbor Freight or the likes then your part of the issue . I use my tools to make a living. I've had more defective junk that I had to return to HF than you can imagine. My $1100 3/4" snap on ratchet set gets used daily and I haven't had a problem. My 1" drive HF set get used seldom and already bent the breaker bar and cracked 2 sockets. The time I wasted dealing with downtime added a lot of cost to the low purchase price. Just my $.02