So pissed off.........

[grayhair]

220cummins, 41chevy, thomastractorsvc, and other dog, you guys are very insightful and informed indeed! It's a pleasure to know you even if only by posts.

Seems my bloviating (a propensity for verbosity) got you guys all wound up. And yes, there is plenty of blame to go around.

As George Carlin said to his audience "The problem is Congress is a club. And you don't belong."

On a lighter note... So the kid behind the counter says... "Timing light? What year model sir?"

[carlotpilot]

The fault goes back NIXON who created the EPA and NOAA by executive order in December of 1970 and gave them the power to enact laws and standards with out the approval of any other branch of government. The order was ratified in 1971. Jimmy Carter actually gave the EPA nearly unlimited power over all things affecting the environment and "quality of life" Obama named Gina Mcarthy( former CEO of The Earth Legal Defense Group) to replace former EPA head Lisa Jackson so she could advise the President on all U.N. environmental initiative projects.

sorry guys but the fault lies squarely on us. we were the ones working our asses off making a living and trying to get ahead and not paying attention to what was happening around us . by not doing so we have let the situation get so far out of hand we may never get it back

[thomastractorsvc]

I'm union and proud but were a shrinking minority. The problem is so far past that, in my opinion. The unions shops that closed and moved to southern/non union states are closed up and moved overseas too. Union membership in the private sector is around 7% which is around the level it was during the Great Depression. So I say it's past the union/non-union argument. Its an American problem. We can't be a nation of service providers. We need to be a nation that makes things . Union or non union were all still Americans . I am first an American Citizen and second a union member. I'd rather buy products produced by my neighbor; either union or non union, than buy from some no name from a country in a far off land. Spend it where you make it.

If you'd rather buy cheap Asian import tools from Harbor Freight or the likes then your part of the issue . I use my tools to make a living. I've had more defective junk that I had to return to HF than you can imagine. My $1100 3/4" snap on ratchet set gets used daily and I haven't had a problem. My 1" drive HF set get used seldom and already bent the breaker bar and cracked 2 sockets. The time I wasted dealing with downtime added a lot of cost to the low purchase price. Just my $.02

If you go here you will see that Snap On uses Chinese manufacturing plants http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=48808508, and I doubt just like John Deere they price point the product on where it is made.

Harbor Freight uses the same manufactures and they also purchase some tools from domestic US manufactures. Does HF sell the best of everything no but I know that when I walk into the store up front. I don't want to have to chase the Snap on guy around for two weeks for $30 socket replacement when I can buy a whole set for that and return to any HF store no questions asked. The last time I took back anything and it has been a while, it was a two finger puller for stripped threads that was 10 years old and used my 18v impact on they said just grab another box, I ended up with two additional pullers because they came in a set, I asked if they wanted the extra back and they said no you had to come in. I doubt the Mac or Snap on guy would say that. I have broken just as many brand name as HF in fact I just exchanged a pair of dikes with craftsman and had to drive half way across KC because the sears outlet by me that specializes in tools and appliances can't exchange them, only the super sears does that.

I disagree with your assumption that a person can't make a living using HF Tools, sometimes it is a sound business decision to buy them instead of a $1100 socket set. I have a variety of tools made by different manufactures I would guess that 40% of my hand tools are HF and I seem to be doing just fine. I have a ridged 18v impact driver that I am constantly using with a 6pt set of 3/8" drive sockets. I can honestly tell you that I have never had a customer tell me not to use HF tools on the repair. I also use my 15 year old 3/4'" HF sockets almost daily with my 1/2 and 3/4 inch air ratchets and I have never broken one, I have had to re weld a few OTC 3/4" sockets after using an impact with them.

[blackdog2]

I had a1/2 sears ratchet wasn't working to well so I put it in 12inch Snap on vice put a little pipe on the handle of ratchet and broke the vice the sales man didn't think that was funny.

[thomastractorsvc]

Merry Christmas

25% off Single Item.pdf

[other dog]

Merry Christmas

25% off Single Item.pdf

Thank you, merry Christmas to you- nice coupon!

[41chevy]

sorry guys but the fault lies squarely on us. we were the ones working our asses off making a living and trying to get ahead and not paying attention to what was happening around us . by not doing so we have let the situation get so far out of hand we may never get it back

I agree to a point. Most Executive Orders like the one that created the EPA bypass public and Congressional opinions and wishes. Granted our elected officials should have the ability to defund or negate the E.O.s but like Nixon and the EPA, Johnson's HUD, once you start giving grants and other so called freebes to the states, counties and towns any hopes of reversal is gone. Think of the monies that have been made by all involved. Once a government agency is created they are never scaled back or eliminated.

Here on the Northfork we are fighting Suffolk County and the Township of Riverhead and Peconic over the proposed farm legislation to limit irrigation water use, limit nitrogen in fertilizer to 1.5% and limit the amount of "air borne particles" during plowing and harvesting. The legislation does not include home owners, sod farms or wineries. Our association of 250 to 300 farmers affected by this proposed law is considered to inconsequential to have any effect. We have already been told of the monies lost to the communities through grants will be devastating to them if the regulations do not go through.

Paying attention means crap, since the end of WWI all government is all about the money

[mrsmackpaul]

Just wondering if any of you blokes have ever heard of this I was sent a link to it at least 12 months ago wonder if any of it sounds familiar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ8f4RxGbP8

dont know if its all true or not but sure is interesting I reckon have look and maybe have a laugh maybe not

Paul

[mowerman]

right there with ya,,,man,,,,been buying american all my life,,,,not only has it seem to make no differance to the economy,,,,were still in the toilet,,,but now you cant even find anything made here ,,,,or atleast very little,,,,worst part,,,,,comes here,,in a china can,,,,and they stilll want american made prices....wow bob...

[220cummins]

If you go here you will see that Snap On uses Chinese manufacturing plants http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=48808508, and I doubt just like John Deere they price point the product on where it is made.

Harbor Freight uses the same manufactures and they also purchase some tools from domestic US manufactures. Does HF sell the best of everything no but I know that when I walk into the store up front. I don't want to have to chase the Snap on guy around for two weeks for $30 socket replacement when I can buy a whole set for that and return to any HF store no questions asked. The last time I took back anything and it has been a while, it was a two finger puller for stripped threads that was 10 years old and used my 18v impact on they said just grab another box, I ended up with two additional pullers because they came in a set, I asked if they wanted the extra back and they said no you had to come in. I doubt the Mac or Snap on guy would say that. I have broken just as many brand name as HF in fact I just exchanged a pair of dikes with craftsman and had to drive half way across KC because the sears outlet by me that specializes in tools and appliances can't exchange them, only the super sears does that.

I disagree with your assumption that a person can't make a living using HF Tools, sometimes it is a sound business decision to buy them instead of a $1100 socket set. I have a variety of tools made by different manufactures I would guess that 40% of my hand tools are HF and I seem to be doing just fine. I have a ridged 18v impact driver that I am constantly using with a 6pt set of 3/8" drive sockets. I can honestly tell you that I have never had a customer tell me not to use HF tools on the repair. I also use my 15 year old 3/4'" HF sockets almost daily with my 1/2 and 3/4 inch air ratchets and I have never broken one, I have had to re weld a few OTC 3/4" sockets after using an impact with them.

I stated before that even snap on has manufacturing abroad. I check labels. I will not buy the import stuff when US made can be had. I can't say really anything good about HF. I didn't say you couldn't make a living with junk tools. What I meant by "I use my tools to make a living" is, its my opinion and experience, that running back and forth to a HF store is a loss in production. I'd rather pay for a quality tool that doesn't fail in comparison to an import tool. I have a very good relationship with my snap on rep. He has bailed me out of a bind a few times. He visits my shop every Friday around 2pm. He is available locally throughout the week and is only a phone call away. He has sent a E-style socket overnight to me once for a defect at no charge and comp my account. I have far fewer, hardly any, defects with quality tools versus HF level tools. Plus, the Harbor Freight store is only about a mile away, but there again I'd rather be turning wrenches than returning them. Getting back to the point of supporting an AMERICAN worker and citizen. Its a bonus. Grayhair pretty much summed it up.

Summary- Premium Price for Quality=Increase in Productivity and Supports the local economy in more than just a "handling type" way

[41chevy]

I Getting back to the point of supporting an AMERICAN worker and citizen. Its a bonus. Grayhair pretty much summed it up.

Summary- Premium Price for Quality=Increase in Productivity and Supports the local economy in more than just a "handling type" way

I have Matco and Snap on come to my yard. I feel that buying from them benefits both sides. They own the franchise and the profit they make supports the local economy directly. I have Craftsman I got when I was 12, SK, Mac, Matco, Snap On that I've bought over the past 40 plus years, Bonnie and Plumb tools I inherited from my dad. I learned you get what you pay for.I do have some China tools, my small engine crane and engine stands and some misc tools I bought to use a few time or modify for a one shot job. Basically it comes down to personal preference and convenience. SEARS for me is a 65 mile round trip, HF is about the same I don't have a few hours to spend, when I can call my Matco or Snap On rep and get it ASAP. Even in a jam I can hit NAPA or ACE for SK and have it delivered.