Timken Diffs Ass end

[mrsmackpaul]

Ok I was naughty boy and sought of hijacked another topic about a Brockway truck with my stupid questions about Timken Diffs

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/37655-brockway-progress/page-3

Anyway Joe Ditchkus asked me what backend I had and the truth is I really am not sure all I know is they are an 8 rod 55,000 lbs Timken made in 1942 for Federal and Diamond T Tank transporters the ratio is 10.22 and they are what we call a top mount diff like a Mack

Now I am pretty sure that they are a worm drive although I have never had them apart so I'm not real sure and they have no power divider

now I am chasing a faster diff ratio of around the low 5's dont no whats around

I have never had any luck trying to find anything out about them so I'm not real sure all anyone can tell me is there tough you wont break them and so on

Years ago I phoned Timken in the states all they called tell me was they sold Timken Axles to to Rockwell I'm pretty sure it was this was in the days before the internet

I put a joey box in years ago when it was last in for a rebuild a spicer 4 speed direct in top around 2.5 to 1 in deep reduction anyway I put in backwards to give me a good over drive not real successful not enough power in the 6-71 for any load

anyway enough waffle from me heres picture of the type of backend I'm talking about

I have emailed the people suggested to me from BULLHUSK have heard nothing back yet might have to jump on the blower shortly just gotta get the time difference right

Paul

[Vladislav]

Paul, I'm not going to tell you I'm ready to clear up totally the matter of this fact although that setup too look like the axles used in Mack NM.

Not shure what they were of rating (the truck's pay load was 6 ton) but they were Timken and were 7.33.

Not a worm drive but double reduction and with no divider or any other 3rd diff.

I have the most of description in the books, can post if you need.

[mrsmackpaul]

He thanks Vlad it looks like the same type of back end to me will get some picks of mine and put them up but it looks the same to me

Paul

[Vladislav]

Paul, I checked out the book by the way today, they are common double reduction's and are 7.33.

There was at least one guy in Brisbane who had NM but I don't know does he have anything as spares.

[Joe Ditchkus]

mrsmackpaul or Vlad As the U.S. Govt. was known for ordering heavy tactical trucks with air over hydraulic brakes ( Duece+one half-5 ton) could you tell me what brakes are on your trucks with the heavy Timken Rears ? Thanks Joe D.

[mrsmackpaul]

Gudday Joe my truck has full air brakes westinghouse a row of bolts around the outside air chamber

Anyway Vlad I dont whether you can read the casting numbers on the housings but they sure are looking like the same type of diff to me

now for the big question what is interchangeable with them ?

the last two scans show some specs for timken back end in a Federal Truck 1948 it is the only reference I have ever found with close to the right specs that I believe 10.22-1 so does make them SD-3010-P ??? wonder what that number means

Paul

[6368]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380517915233?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT brochure

[mrsmackpaul]

thanks for that done deal I wonder what I will learn when it turns up

Paul

[Vladislav]

mrsmackpaul or Vlad As the U.S. Govt. was known for ordering heavy tactical trucks with air over hydraulic brakes ( Duece+one half-5 ton) could you tell me what brakes are on your trucks with the heavy Timken Rears ? Thanks Joe D.

Joe, Mack NM has all wheel air brakes made by BW. Nothing extraordinal was noted over them so far.

[Vladislav]

Paul,

if you're looking for a swap to faser diffs I think you should just relate the mounting bolts pattern and the type of the jack shaft end splines.

To be top-secured I'd also measure the distance from the diff center to the mounting flange surface.

I have no of them NM carriers out of the truck but may try to ask for a diff mounting gasket and can pull out one of the jack shafts to determine the splines.

Funny fact I found the ad with such the stuff for sale. Not shure you'll be jumping enjoying seeing that because it was in British Columbia.

http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?189258-1940-s-mack-NM-6-ton-6x6-chassis

[Vladislav]

By the word as far as I know Whire 666 and some WW2 Brockway had almost the same axles as Mack NM.

Here's one more pic for you but I'd suppose those numbers are just # of the bracket.

[mrsmackpaul]

Thanks for that Vlad I would have thought someone out there must no what can be changed with what I did get hold of a bloke in the states who reckoned he had the right ones and they were but the ratio matched and try as I may he couldnt under stand that 10.22 was what I had not what I was after so I gave up with him in the end

Paul

[fifth wheel]

Unknown to me that Mack used vendor axles in there units ,until I saw a picture of a Mack NM? 6x4. I believe a straight rail frame and have the cab and sheet metal from this one.

Could be the military used air over hydraulic because of their fording capabilities.

FW

(nek photo)

[Joe Ditchkus]

fifth wheel I have been asking that question for years about the air over hydraulic brakes on U.S.Military Tactical trucks for years. So far yours is the best answer I received about fording capabilities. Thanks Joe D.

[mrsmackpaul]

I dont know I would have thought air brakes would be ok for fording streams

My grand father used to drive a NR Mack with a tmber jinker for years and it had full air brakes

FW that truck in the picture looks to have the same Timken front axle and drive axles as my Federal ? maybe its just my funny eyes

Paul

[Vladislav]

Unknown to me that Mack used vendor axles in there units ,until I saw a picture of a Mack NM? 6x4. I believe a straight rail frame and have the cab and sheet metal from this one.

Could be the military used air over hydraulic because of their fording capabilities.

FW

(nek photo)

Neil,

There was a reason to standartize all 6 ton 6x6 military trucks during the war so White 666, Brockway F666 and Corbitt all had the same Timken-Detroit axles and transfer case.

As for Mack NM it was 6x6 and had a frame stepped up in front to clear the front axle (the 3rd pic I posted on this page).

Green truck is too interesting combo.

From what I see it's shure not Mack NM and much more probably LT.

But there are interesting NM traces.

The cab looks like a early military one, has no vent windows. Although early commercial cabs also hadn't. Hood sides look off very early (and too rare) Mack NM. But they are longer. NM had shorter (standard L-model) hood. I probably saw the same louvre setup on eary LT's in the book.

Those rear axles don't look much like Timken's and might be Mack from what I see.

Taking to account front spring front bracket, air filter and the box on the right hand step I would say LT. But with strange looking set back axle...

[fifth wheel]

NR? definitely a military issue, it had Detroit-Timken axles, door glass hemmed with steel edge, slots and hand screws to open front windshields, single person seats, similar to the WW2 dodges.

Nothing related to an LT.

FW

(nek photos)

[Vladislav]

All the NR's had double reduction Mack SWD (#44000-?) bogie. I see no NR components excepting the air tank on the right rail wich is common.

The cab and the sides of the bonnet are quite similar to early NM. Although those sides look much longer, maybe off a Cummins powered L.

The fenders are a mistery. They aren't from NM, NR or LT. Looking at the last shot I'd risk to say BX.

From the Mack military record book there were NM's with Timken axles although in early 40's two small bunches of Mack EXBX were built, EXBX and EXBX-2. The last ones (50 trucks) had Timken axles.

Those trucks had the wheel base long enough and had hood sides with louvres.

If you look on the front side wiev you might note some especial head light brackets. What are they from? BX-?

[mrsmackpaul]

well Im out and about at the moment and you will never guess what I came across a Flinstone Mack with a Timken back end like the ones in the picture the sales man fella told me it was built that way But I tend to think he is wrong as they have the truck down as 1970 Timken wasnt making axles then as far as I know and I can see the chassis has been extended and streched and some more crap welded on Im not sure what the chassis is but I dont think its Mack it has a big double set just at the back of the cab I reckon it would have to 8 or 9 inches

does anybody no what these numbers mean

I dont know whether the front axle is timken or not

You can clearly see the chassis change in height between the front and back axle in the photo below

And the double set in the chassis at the back of the truck

theres so many things that tell me this a made up truck from bits and pieces and not from Mack the axles are army green they are rivited to the chassis which I have never seen a Mack like that and one of this age and that chassis double set did Mack ever build a chassis like that ?

heres the add for it http://www.westerntraders87.com/buy/used/truck/mack/r600/prime-mover/86425?returnurl=#.VMI9-dKUfC8

Paul

[fifth wheel]

All the NR's had double reduction Mack SWD (#44000-?) bogie. I see no NR components excepting the air tank on the right rail wich is common.

The cab and the sides of the bonnet are quite similar to early NM. Although those sides look much longer, maybe off a Cummins powered L.

The fenders are a mistery. They aren't from NM, NR or LT. Looking at the last shot I'd risk to say BX.

From the Mack military record book there were NM's with Timken axles although in early 40's two small bunches of Mack EXBX were built, EXBX and EXBX-2. The last ones (50 trucks) had Timken axles.

Those trucks had the wheel base long enough and had hood sides with louvres.

If you look on the front side wiev you might note some especial head light brackets. What are they from? BX

I believe the hood length is std. LJ, not sure if I have the headlight bracket.

FW

[41chevy]

mrsmackpaul or Vlad As the U.S. Govt. was known for ordering heavy tactical trucks with air over hydraulic brakes ( Duece+one half-5 ton) could you tell me what brakes are on your trucks with the heavy Timken Rears ? Thanks Joe D.

All U.S. Tank Transporters, Heavy Trailers and 155, 204mm and up Artillery after 1940 ran the Westinghouse Air Brakes. Mainly for ease of hooking brakes on the Heavy Transport trailers and Gun carriages.

MACK did run their own design Front driven steer axles and their design was bullet proof, nearly un breakable. No universals on the axle ends, MACK designed a gear driven set up.

The Timkin rears were designed to MIL specs and no matter what company made them the all were the same design. Like the Grumman Wildcat and the General Motors versions all MIL Spec 90% alike. Paul

[Vladislav]

I believe the hood length is std. LJ, not sure if I have the headlight bracket.

FW

That's the head light bracket. Or more correct to say it's lower half. The kind of NR although LF or LJ. Not a BX one.

Any access to this truck? Would be tooooo interesting to clear off dust from the chassis number.

[Vladislav]

well Im out and about at the moment and you will never guess what I came across a Flinstone Mack with a Timken back end like the ones in the picture the sales man fella told me it was built that way But I tend to think he is wrong as they have the truck down as 1970 Timken wasnt making axles then as far as I know and I can see the chassis has been extended and streched and some more crap welded on Im not sure what the chassis is but I dont think its Mack it has a big double set just at the back of the cab I reckon it would have to 8 or 9 inches

does anybody no what these numbers mean

I dont know whether the front axle is timken or not

You can clearly see the chassis change in height between the front and back axle in the photo below

And the double set in the chassis at the back of the truck

theres so many things that tell me this a made up truck from bits and pieces and not from Mack the axles are army green they are rivited to the chassis which I have never seen a Mack like that and one of this age and that chassis double set did Mack ever build a chassis like that ?

heres the add for it http://www.westerntraders87.com/buy/used/truck/mack/r600/prime-mover/86425?returnurl=#.VMI9-dKUfC8

Paul

Hmmm... Paul, from what I see the chassis is off Mack NM. Stretched up and reworked but still with many original components. That front axle is shure Timken but differs of the one I have in the NM. It took me for some while scratching my head until I figured it out. It was used on very early NM's of 1940-41 and the similar one is present on this Sterling. So the youngest possible birth year of that Flintstone chassis is 1945 If you're near watch out the chassis number on the left hand rail above the front axle beam.

[Joe Ditchkus]

Thanks for the info to all. I never saw that old style brake chamber on a truck as late as 1970. I would think that late 1950'S was the last that style with all the bolts were used.I have a few trucks from the early 1960'S and none with those brake chambers.Joe D.

[41chevy]

Here's the MACK front axle NO to M-123 ran them. 8 for sale right now on e Bay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Military-10-ton-M123-G792-Mack-6x6-Front-Steer-Axle-/360285454410