b61fred Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hi,Question about Injection pumps. I have installed a 237 into a B-61 with a duplex trans. I am having the Injection pump worked on now and would be a good time to adjust it differently if needed.My question is , since my truck has a 10 speed trans I will shift much sooner that a truck with a 5 speed trans. My power band will be much narrower and I will not need to let the rpm to drop down to 1200 RPM like the 5 speed Maxidyne engines. I think it should be set to specs. that would have a power band 1600 to 2100 RPM. I have drove the truck before and it has more power if I just shift the main with no split shifting. I also know that the old two stick transmissions don't like to have that much torque put through them at that RPM. Has anyone had these adjustment done to their Injection Pumps? I know that Mack v8's had different torque and horsepower specs. for different transmission applications all because of the 5 speeds being of the "low torque rise" versions. Quote 15 gears...no waiting! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdogtrucker Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I've driven B's with 237's "dropped in" and they were sweet, I'd leave it alone if it were mine. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-284814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 By leaving it the way it is you have the option of skipping a few gears here and there. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-284820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I've heard differing views about using a 237 behind a du/tri/quad. Usually just skip splitting the gears. No need to, and the way the power comes on with a 237 it just doesn't like to be short shifted. I can't say for sure, never driven one. Had the same reservations about using one in my truck. I like all the gears(so far) and I guess it would be a change not having to change gears every 10 seconds.Can you just put a thermodyne pump on a 237 and make it respond correctly? I would suppose there is A LOT more to it. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-284821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It would be a shame to take away the low end power of a 237,those engines can really pull in the low rpm when you need it to. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-284824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdogtrucker Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The C model dump I had a couple years ago had a 350(when new), detuned with a pump/turbo ect. from a 250 Thermodyne. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-284825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 B61 fred go ahead and have the pump reset to a thermodyne setting and you will be happy.If you don't what happens because of the hi torque rise the maxidyne has is at 2100 under load you hit a hill it will fall down the 1400 real fast then hold there.For a working truck with a ten speed you will be sick of this.With the thermodyne setting if will have the torque more even thru the RPM range and will not fall on it face as fast and will hold up higher rpm longer.There is nothen wrong with keeping it as a maxidyne but just remnber to skip gears when shifting and plus the maxidyne is putting more torque thru that trans than should be.I have been thru this more than once.Also the thermodyne that is in it now will not have the right pump for a ENDT 250C.The barrels and plungers are not big enough. 1 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-284827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamsterGrrrl Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Maxitorque 5 speeds seem t be a dime a dozen, why not just put the proper transmission behind the 237 Maxidyne? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-284925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b61fred Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Thanks for the advice, I don't want to put a five speed trans in my truck. I like what I have now. The clutch is a push type and the maxidyne had a cable operated pull clutch. I don't want to change that all over. I know what you mean by falling off to 1400-1500 range while pulling. I just think the truck would be much more pleasurable to drive if I matched the rpm range to the type of transmission. I didn't know if that could be done with only adjustments to the injection pump or do I need different injectors and turbocharger to get this accomplished? I have been told that it should be only pump work. I might add a tip turbine and after cooler at a later date. Quote 15 gears...no waiting! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Interesting read Glenn. So basically you can take a 237 and put a thermodyne pump to it and make it more like a 250 thermodyne style engine? Maybe not quite the same HP, but better then just a turbo on a 673 na motor. I would suppose it would be the same with the two different 300 motors? 1 Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You can have the maxidyne pump set to what a thermosdyne set would be but not the old thermodyne cause the 187 and turboed 205 HP pumps was not big enough.You can make a ENDT250C engine with out doing no more than resetting the pump but it has to be done by a pump rebuild shop.For the guy that said just leve the pump like it is nothen wrong with that but again like I said you done have no top end power with a ten speed trans. 1 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog13407 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 its a major operation putting a maxitorque 5 speed in a B model. the motor mounts have to be changed on the frame, new holes drilled and like he said the clutch is also an issue unless you bolt up a swing down clutch pedal out of an R model. I also think the shifting lever is far enough back where it will be into the cab floor board piece a little and not the removeable section. I think id either just leave it in high and don't mash it or have the pump set to 673c Thermodyne specs 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Thanks for the info Glenn. Not that I have any motors in line but knowing I can make a 250 thermodyne out of a 237 is interesting. Figured that the 205 couldn't move the fuel. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b61fred Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 So is the Thermodyne 250 the biggest engine for this pump or is the 315+ a Thermodyne also. I am pretty sure the 285hp. and 300 hp. versions are both Maxidynes. I don't know where the 350 fits in other than the intercooler setups. So lets look at this a little further and see what I come up with here is correct. Please reply with updated information and I will add or fix any discrepancies.Horsepower Turbocharged Intercooler Maxidyne or Thermodyne Notes180 Hp no no Thermodyne195 Hp no no Thermodyne Split manifold205 Hp yes no Thermodyne B model turbocharged225Hp yes no Thermodyne B model turbocharged 237 Hp yes no Maxidyne 250 Hp yes no Thermodyne 285 Hp yes yes Maxidyne Tip turbo fan 300 Hp yes yes Maxidyne Tip turbo fan 315 Hp yes yes Thermodyne Tip turbo fan 350 Hp yes yes Thermodyne Air to Air Quote 15 gears...no waiting! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 300 or 300 plus. One is Maxidyne the other is thermodyne. Don't remember which is which. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 300 is a Maxidyne.300 Plus is a Thermodyne with engine number ETAZ673A at 315-320 HP.350 Thermodyne ETAZ677 350 HP. 1 Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog13407 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 there was also a 225 version of the thermodyne 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 The 225 HP was a ENDT673B it was a thermodyne Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackdaddytruckfixer Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I don't want to high jack your thread but I need some help and I guess this is where the Mack guys are. I have a E6 2 valve that I just had a total overhaul done on less than a 1000 miles on it. I'm seeing water in the oil and oil in the water. Runs real bad when I first start it with some white fuel smoke. Had the heads totally rebuilt also and new injectors. Really it dose run ok after it warms up and is using alot less oil and water but that isn't what I spent $8000 for. And it has a small bit of blow by. Getting alittle milky looking crap under valve pans to. Any help would be great so please help. I'm thinking they rebuilt junk cracked heads that cost me $1200. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I think you need to take it back to who overhauled the engine.You keep driving it will not help on the warranty and can damage the engine. 2 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b61fred Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Updated earlier post with information Thank you! 1 Quote 15 gears...no waiting! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdogtrucker Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Would a 237 with a quadbox be better with the pump setup as a 250 Thermodyne also? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 That is what I'm thinking. Or just drive it like a 5spd. Seems from what I am hearing, the powerband is at too low of an rpm to use tight splits. It needs to lug down to 1100 to make maximum torque. Seems like it would just be making noise at 1800+ rpm.I'm thinking now it might be easier to find a 237 and make it a 250 then try to find a 250 thermodyne? 1 Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdogtrucker Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 237's would be much easier to find IMO. Would like to put some more power in my B someday, problem is it runs SO darn good... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 My old 673 runs pretty well too. Can't complain for the 14 yrs of service it has given me. More power would be a plus. Don't have the budget for it no matter what I dream about unless someone is giving one away? Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/39504-injection-pump-setting-maxidyne-vs-thermodyne/#findComment-285859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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