Dayton rims

[Walt1967]

I have a 1991 superliner with Dayton rims.what is the proper torque for the lug nuts.i was told around 300-400 lbs using a 1/2 inch air gun.i don't know but it kinda makes sense seeing how the studs end up bottoming out and the rim end up slipping.is this because guys use a 1 inch air gun and over torque them? Thanks for answers.

[Joe Ditchkus]

If the cleats are bottoming out they are too short or wrong spacer. I would never use a 1" gun on spoke wheels.I use a 3/4" drive ratchet it works well for me. Joe D.

[j hancock]

200-250 torque with dry threads.

If using a 1" gun the spacer ring has probably been bent out of shape and can be causing the slippage or the wrong lug and spacer combination.

It isn't lots of fun but changing Daytons only requires hand tools like Joe said.

[Maddog13407]

nope and the biggest problem with Daytons is no one cleans the hub!. if you change an outside tire, you should take the spacer off, and the other tire. wire brush the flat surfaces and put it back together clean. once you break the outside tire loose, usually dirt and rust get behind the inside one and it wont tighten properly. like the guys said, the heel part of the wedge doesn't need to touch the hub, if it does and the rims are loose, then the angled part of the wedge is worn. you can always grind a little bit off and get away with. most Macks all had 3 5/8s spacers to unless they had say wider tires on the rear. lots of times guys change the tires and screw up the spacer and put a 4'' one on and screws everything up.

[theakerstwo]

What joe said.

[Swishy]

Wobbly Wheelz Rule n R Kool

A loose wheel fix

cya

§wishy

[mrsmackpaul]

I dunno about all this 200 lbs plus tension sounds way to tight to me it should be as simple as Swishy's lower left hand picture drive twenty minutes or so then pull up and re tighten after all the studs are only mild steel as far as I know and they dont hold the cleats in once they are tight they hold like a morse taper drill bit

Or at least thats the way I under stand it

Walt sounds like your spacer has being squashed to me or maybe the wrong spacer has being fitted at some stage you can get different width spacers for different brands of rims and hubs

Paul

[Underdog]

If the cleats are bottoming out they are too short or wrong spacer. I would never use a 1" gun on spoke wheels.I use a 3/4" drive ratchet it works well for me. Joe D.

I don't even own a 1" gun... Way too much torque even for Budd wheels! Too tight is just as bad as too loose, resulting in stretched and/or broken studs.

[Red Horse]

nope and the biggest problem with Daytons is no one cleans the hub!. if you change an outside tire, you should take the spacer off, and the other tire. wire brush the flat surfaces and put it back together clean. once you break the outside tire loose, usually dirt and rust get behind the inside one and it wont tighten properly. like the guys said, the heel part of the wedge doesn't need to touch the hub, if it does and the rims are loose, then the angled part of the wedge is worn. you can always grind a little bit off and get away with. most Macks all had 3 5/8s spacers to unless they had say wider tires on the rear. lots of times guys change the tires and screw up the spacer and put a 4'' one on and screws everything up.

So Matt, you ruined my night. Took the B out today for first time to get inspection sticker and mentioned my right rear had a wobble that I could not get rid of. My buddy looks at it and says.."squashed spacer" Plus wedges are in contact with spokes. Looks like spacer is 3-3/4, one on other side is a 4"-runs true!. So I order a 4"-have to pick it up in AM. Truck is a 61X, 11:00 24 radials. If I stick my fist between tires with 4" it swallows my hand. do it with the 3-3/4 my fist is flush with top of tire (scientific huh?)

so what is with your comment on .."4" screws everything up"??

[Red Horse]

Further to this subject, replaced my spacer with a 4". Clamps now are not touching the spokes. Question-what is acceptable runout? I've had someone tell me anything up to 1/2" is acceptable.

[mrsmackpaul]

which way I reckon they should run spot on both ways eg side ways and round and round if that makes any sense

I can always adjust my wheels ok so they dont wobble maybe Im just lucky

Paul

[Underdog]

which way I reckon they should run spot on both ways eg side ways and round and round if that makes any sense

I can always adjust my wheels ok so they dont wobble maybe Im just lucky

Paul

Not bragging but I've always been pretty good at this myself practiced a lot when I was younger took pride in getting the boss's wheels on straight. He always like to keep the green and white paint fresh too after any tire work.

Joe D. You might remember Kearney Trucking in Portland, PA that's where I got my start in the garage

Gregg

[Maddog13407]

ok maybe i should add STOCK Macks had 3 5/8 spacers with 10.00 x 20 or 22s or 11 22.5's or 11 24.5 tires.. when you ran 11.00 20s or 12.00 20s or bigger 22's you have to run a 4'' spacer and run shorter wedges to get the DOT approved space between the tires when they squish with weight.

[Red Horse]

Ok guys- my frustration level goes up. Screwed around with this some more and 1/2" is best I can get. have space between clamps and spoke so that is not an issue. One thing I see, when I look at inner rim, the inner bevel edge on one of the spokes does NOT make contact anywhere with the angled edge of the rim.

My next move is to flip the inner with the outer wheel and see what that does. By the way I've had more than one experienced guy tell me..."1/2"? forget about it-" I do use the truck, not uncommon to hit 38,000 lbs (its a single axle) but I'm always on rural/secondary state roads.

[j hancock]

It is a pain to wrestle 24 inchers around but I would check to see if the "void" on the rim stays consistent with other spokes. Put a piece of masking tape on the rim to mark the spot. If the void is moving spoke to spoke than the rim is tweaked. If the problem only seems to be on just one spoke than at same point , it has become worn.

All the parts need to be good to have them draw up even to get a minimum amount of run out. If a part is out of spec, there will be a wobble. I had a spoke welded up to reshape the profile because of some damage. It was on a 1941 and a replacement was just not to be found. After welding and some grinding, all spoke profiles matched and the run out was minimized.

[Red Horse]

It is a pain to wrestle 24 inchers around but I would check to see if the "void" on the rim stays consistent with other spokes. Put a piece of masking tape on the rim to mark the spot. If the void is moving spoke to spoke than the rim is tweaked. If the problem only seems to be on just one spoke than at same point , it has become worn.

All the parts need to be good to have them draw up even to get a minimum amount of run out. If a part is out of spec, there will be a wobble. I had a spoke welded up to reshape the profile because of some damage. It was on a 1941 and a replacement was just not to be found. After welding and some grinding, all spoke profiles matched and the run out was minimized.

Thx Jim I'm sure your advice is right on-just wonder how you can bend a rim as heavy as they are. Friend of mine just bought some new 24"- $$$$$$$!

By the way I did make a quick attempt at rotating- needed a good nights sleep and gave up. think a peavey would work??

[j hancock]

Bending rims can happen. They are pretty rugged but if someone in the past drove a rim clamp down with an impact wrench on "stun", it can effectively stretch the metal of the rim.

Never tried a peavey, but have used a long crowbar. Wouldn't mind having a single or dual tire jack.

[fifth wheel]

Ok guys- my frustration level goes up. Screwed around with this some more and 1/2" is best I can get. have space between clamps and spoke so that is not an issue. One thing I see, when I look at inner rim, the inner bevel edge on one of the spokes does NOT make contact anywhere with the angled edge of the rim.

My next move is to flip the inner with the outer wheel and see what that does. By the way I've had more than one experienced guy tell me..."1/2"? forget about it-" I do use the truck, not uncommon to hit 38,000 lbs (its a single axle) but I'm always on rural/secondary state roads.

There is a difference in the inside diameter between the 8 x 24 and the 8.5 x 24 rims, the 8.5 is smaller. Most all of the heavy single axle 24' spokes were set up for 12 x 24 tires and 8.5 rims. 8" rims will be loose on the rear spokes and 8.5" rims will not seat properly on the front spoke . FA 600,601

FW

[mrsmackpaul]

so do you blokes loosen the oppiste side to the one you trying tighten or are just trying to pull it in tighter and not allowing somewhere else for the rim to go

dunno if that makes any sense I cant see how it could be such a drama loosen one side of the rim tighten the other it has to run true

no need for all this other high tech measuring and sliding rims on the spider maybe all this stuff only works in Australia ???????

Paul

[j hancock]

so do you blokes loosen the oppiste side to the one you trying tighten or are just trying to pull it in tighter and not allowing somewhere else for the rim to go

I think most people do exactly as you describe.

Sometimes we have equipment that is purchased and we don't always know the history of who has worked on it or if they have done something STUPID like using a 1" air gun when mounting Daytons rims.

[Red Horse]

There is a difference in the inside diameter between the 8 x 24 and the 8.5 x 24 rims, the 8.5 is smaller. Most all of the heavy single axle 24' spokes were set up for 12 x 24 tires and 8.5 rims. 8" rims will be loose on the rear spokes and 8.5" rims will not seat properly on the front spoke . FA 600,601

FW

Well the build sheet says in 1956 it came down line with 11:00 x 24's .Doesn't give rim size just a part no. 14QJ314P3

so do you blokes loosen the oppiste side to the one you trying tighten or are just trying to pull it in tighter and not allowing somewhere else for the rim to go

dunno if that makes any sense I cant see how it could be such a drama loosen one side of the rim tighten the other it has to run true

no need for all this other high tech measuring and sliding rims on the spider maybe all this stuff only works in Australia ???????

Paul

For sure- loosen all the clamps, nuts in place and then start gradual hand tightening using star pattern

I think most people do exactly as you describe.

Sometimes we have equipment that is purchased and we don't always know the history of who has worked on it or if they have done something STUPID like using a 1" air gun when mounting Daytons rims.

Your key word Jim-"History". This truck was a B-60X with a 9.05 RAD-111. I believe original owner converted it to a 711 and the rear was changed to a 6.??. Guy I bought it from then pulled 711 and put a factory reman 237 that had 10,000 miles on it. He also had 3 or 4 heavy B's so you can imagine the rim swapping over the 50 years before I bought it.

Question- proper way to measure width- I'm putting rule at start of bevel and calling it at the radius edge. Was there such a thing as an 8.25?

[j hancock]

On page 21, Accuride has a diagram that indicates the width is between the beads.

http://www.accuridewheelendsolutions.com/files/2014/08/W1.000-Accuride-Wheels-Catalog-2014-reduced.pdf

There is a note on page 21 about using an M type spacer on a 8.5 rims that may be helpful information to know.

[Red Horse]

On page 21, Accuride has a diagram that indicates the width is between the beads.

http://www.accuridewheelendsolutions.com/files/2014/08/W1.000-Accuride-Wheels-Catalog-2014-reduced.pdf

There is a note on page 21 about using an M type spacer on a 8.5 rims that may be helpful information to know.

Well Jim thx for this- for sure I am clueless-always thought it was the outside dimension. In any case, this schematic looks nothing like my spare rim. I should take a pix and post.

PS Nice article in newest ATCA mag!

[mowerman]

i used to change them in the 70,s ....300 sounds too tite..but i think thats what they require...bob