1963 C85 Pumper

[ff6cav]

Going to try my hand at a fundraiser for the engine, figured I would post it here in case anybody is interested.  Shirts are $20 for sizes S-XL, $22 for sizes larger than that.  Delivery available in Gettysburg or Carlisle (PA) areas, or to PA Pump Primers and York Fire Muster.  Send me a PM if interested.

[Gmerrill0516]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 8:58 AM, fxfymn said:

Make sure the switch that controls the new pump is tied to the ignition circuit so you cannot leave it on with the engine shut down. This should prevent you from filling the crankcase with gasoline if the carb float sticks.

You may want to put a fuel pressure regulator on even though the pump you are using appears to have a low enough pressure.

By "replace fuel lines" I assume you mean only the existing rubber lines?? I would not use rubber all the way from the tank to the engine as the pump will happily keep fuel flowing through a broken line until it finds an ignition source. If the existing lines are rusty replace them with a steel line (steel brake line works fine).

You can place the pump almost anywhere in the lines, but if you put it near the tank it will act as a "lift" pump to deliver fuel more quickly after the truck has sat idle for awhile. (I assume the tank is in the rear near the back step) The downside is if a line leaks it will supply fuel to the leak; if it is mounted near the engine it will lose prime from a leak between it and the tank.

"Should".  Famous last words.  I guess I should dig into the ignition switches or find the proper circuit on mine...it's a manual switch I pirated (unused) in the dash...can hear it if the engine isn't running but...good advice

[ff6cav]

Finally some progress!  Had the clutch adjusted on Monday, which put some freeplay back in the pedal and she grabs a lot better, with no slipping!  Also put new batteries in, as the old ones finally "gave up the ghost" so to speak.  Looking forward to the CAFAA muster on Saturday!

[ff6cav]

Had the rig at the CAFAA muster on Saturday, which was great, and the rig did great going down and back.  I did hit one snag on the way home, suddenly the engine started cutting out and not wanting to go, but after a few seconds it resolved itself.  A minute or two down the road, the same thing, so I pulled off on a side road and the engine died.  I go back, pop the hood, and start looking for what's wrong- come to find out, the wires on the bottom of the fuel pump had worked themselves loose, so no power was getting to the fuel pump.  A simple fix, and we were back on the road and running great.  

Today (Monday), I took her about a 15 minute drive to the Hampton Fire Co. to work out the pump and flow some water.  There were really no leaks to speak of coming from the pump, but when the supply line was pressurized, part of the clamp on the piping for the front suction broke and caused a pretty heavy leak; but that should be an easy fix.  A few other items of concern:
1. None of the gauges on the pump panel are working (tach, supply pressure and master pressure)

2. The primer is not working.  When I pull on the lever for the primer, the lights on the pump panel get dim, but the primer will not engage. 

3. There is a slight leak (more of a constant drip) coming from some small black lines around the pump- they look like small black hoses, about the size of small fuel hose.  I honestly have no idea what they are or what they go to, can somebody point me in the right direction?

[General Ike]

The hoses you are describing... do they run to the back side of the gauges on the pump panel?  Or do they run to a series of valves usually located under the pump panel step.

Option 1 they are the lines that give you your readings (or lack there of) on your gauges.

Option 2 they are bleeders for the various plumbing that comes and goes from the pump.

[General Ike]

Is that one of Medic 28's old rigs that Hampton is running as a QRS or Duty Ride?

[ff6cav]

4 hours ago, General Ike said:

The hoses you are describing... do they run to the back side of the gauges on the pump panel?  Or do they run to a series of valves usually located under the pump panel step.

Option 1 they are the lines that give you your readings (or lack there of) on your gauges.

Option 2 they are bleeders for the various plumbing that comes and goes from the pump.

Ok, so I did some investigating and spent some 'quality time' under the rig and found out a few things today-

1- the lines that were dripping are copper or brass lines running to a valve on the pump panel, I'm not too concerned about them at the moment.

2- the more pressing issue is the primer- I have the electric motor off, and it spins with no problem, also spins when power is put to it, but the primer itself seems to be frozen up.  Any thoughts on that other than taking it apart?

 

I will try to upload some pics, but am posting this from my phone,so no promises

[ff6cav]

9 hours ago, General Ike said:

Is that one of Medic 28's old rigs that Hampton is running as a QRS or Duty Ride?

I'm not sure, I will have to ask and get back to you.  They're running it as "Special Unit 10", and mostly run it as their QRS piece

[ff6cav]

A few pics related to my previous post- first, the broken clamp from the front suction.  I am currently attempting to find somewhere that I can find one of these.

The leaky water line on the pump.  The source of the leak is right in the middle of the picture, appears to be a small crack or rust hole:

Where the line leads to:

What it looks like on the outside(black knob):

Bottom of the primer:

Inside of the primer where the motor attaches- the primer itself will not move at all:

!

Cleaning up the primer motor:

Repainted the primer motor:

[General Ike]

Your rig is a gasser right? The pic with the black knob leads me to believe that you have a two stage pump which isn't uncommon for old has fired rigs as a single stage pump pushing more than 1000gpm (or even that much) with a gas motor was tough. I'd say the knob was there to adjust pump pressure while switching the pump between stages which is what the transfer valve fitting to the left would have done. I'm above my pay grade however as I only have limited experience with two stage pumps and they were all on diesels that made them obsolete and we left the transfer valve in "volume" all the time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ff6cav]

4 minutes ago, General Ike said:

Your rig is a gasser right? The pic with the black knob leads me to believe that you have a two stage pump which isn't uncommon for old has fired rigs as a single stage pump pushing more than 1000gpm (or even that much) with a gas motor was tough. I'd say the knob was there to adjust pump pressure while switching the pump between stages which is what the transfer valve fitting to the left would have done. I'm above my pay grade however as I only have limited experience with two stage pumps and they were all on diesels that made them obsolete and we left the transfer valve in "volume" all the time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's correct, gas engine and has a 2 stage pump.  I'm a fairly new pump operator, and obviously this is different from the newer pumps I operate on our in service rigs, so this whole thing is a learning experience for me!  

[ff6cav]

As a supplemental question in reference to the primer- would it hurt anything to soak it with rust penetrant to see if that would break it free?  I really don't want to take it apart if I don't have to

[fxfymn]

Your coupler looks like a "Victraulic" (sp??) connector that is commonly used on sprinkler piping. I'd check with a local sprinkler shop to see if they can help you out.

[1958 F.W.D.]

If you are having issues with your primer, you really should bite the bullet and rebuild it while its out. Contact Waterous and get a rebuild kit for it.

Also, if you are interested, if you plan on drafting a lot, look into converting it over to a Trident Air Primer. What a world of difference. 

 

[ff6cav]

On 6/8/2016 at 0:40 PM, General Ike said:

Is that one of Medic 28's old rigs that Hampton is running as a QRS or Duty Ride?

I checked with one of their members and that is correct

[ff6cav]

A little bit of progress from yesterday:

New Victaulic clamp on the front intake piping

Loaded some "new" hose that I acquired from the Bendersville Fire Co.  150' dead load 3", (2) 200' 1-3/4" attack lines, additional 50' of 3" in the compartment

Shot of my little helper; he doesn't like to sit still very long!

 

[609albert]

where are you in pa.    Delaware Valley?

[ff6cav]

3 hours ago, 609albert said:

where are you in pa.    Delaware Valley?

Negative, Susquehanna Valley- Gettysburg area

[609albert]

that was a big mack fire apparatus area

[kevink1955]

The valve with the black handle and the 1/4" copper lines is the Master Pump Drain valve.  The copper lines run to all the low points on the pump and allow it to be drained to prevent a freeze up in cold weather.  If the pump was not drained the lines may have split from a freeze up.

I would not rely on the master drain that has not been maintained in years to drain a pump for winter storage

[fxfymn]

You cannot open the master drain under pressure; there is an "O" ring that will blow out, but you need to make sure it is working so the best way is to blow air back through it. If water does not drain when you open it chances are it is plugged.

 

[ff6cav]

On 6/22/2016 at 9:36 PM, kevink1955 said:

The valve with the black handle and the 1/4" copper lines is the Master Pump Drain valve.  The copper lines run to all the low points on the pump and allow it to be drained to prevent a freeze up in cold weather.  If the pump was not drained the lines may have split from a freeze up.

I would not rely on the master drain that has not been maintained in years to drain a pump for winter storage

That makes sense now, thank you!  Would there be anything wrong with replacing the copper lines with, say, rubber fuel line?

[fxfymn]

Quote

Would there be anything wrong with replacing the copper lines with, say, rubber fuel line?

I would not. The lines are pressurized by the pump to whatever pressure the pump is developing. A broken rubber line whipping around at 200 psi is not what you want.

[ff6cav]

11 hours ago, fxfymn said:

I would not. The lines are pressurized by the pump to whatever pressure the pump is developing. A broken rubber line whipping around at 200 psi is not what you want.

Good point!

[kevink1955]

I think the new engines are using plastic DOT brake line for all drain and gauge lines. I will look the next time I am in the shop to make sure. 

If that's what they are using you could reuse all the brass fittings, all you would need would be new ferrules  and tube inserts, the DOT brake line is so easy to work with you could have the entire pump re-plumed in a few hours