1963 C85 Pumper

[ff6cav]

Decided to bite the bullet and take the primer apart to see what was ailing it.  Looks like maybe just enough corrosion to keep the sprockets from moving?  I did a little bit of cleanup on them, but ran out of time to do anything else before I had to go to work tonight. 

Cleaned up a little bit:

[ff6cav]

Got the primer put back together yesterday, and the motor back on today with a new solenoid, and the primer works great.  I tested it out by drafting out of a small kiddie pool at my parent's house, and it pulled a prime in less than 10 seconds using 1 section of hard sleeve on the 4-1/2" intake, but couldn't keep primed for more than a few seconds.  My thoughts on the lack of prime are this:

1. There are 2 pump drain lines that are cracked and leaking at a steady rate (water running out), which would introduce air into the pump and disrupt the draft

2. The cap on the 2-1/2" suction was not the same threads as the collar and was only on by about 1-2 threads, which resulted in a bad seal.  The ball valve on that suction was also leaking.

3. After I packed everything up, I double checked all of the discharge/intake caps, and found a few that were not as tight as they should be.

4. The kiddie pool wasn't very deep/big

 

I wasn't expecting it to hold a prime, since to my knowledge it's been around 10 years since it drafted, and was mostly drafting just to make sure the primer would do its job.  At least now I know what else I need to work on!

Short video of the drafting attempt:

https://www.facebook.com/896316497056489/videos/1160698303951639/

[Loadstar]

Sounds like your gaining on it....Nice job!

[General Ike]

15 hours ago, ff6cav said:

Got the primer put back together yesterday, and the motor back on today with a new solenoid, and the primer works great.  I tested it out by drafting out of a small kiddie pool at my parent's house, and it pulled a prime in less than 10 seconds using 1 section of hard sleeve on the 4-1/2" intake, but couldn't keep primed for more than a few seconds.  My thoughts on the lack of prime are this:

1. There are 2 pump drain lines that are cracked and leaking at a steady rate (water running out), which would introduce air into the pump and disrupt the draft

2. The cap on the 2-1/2" suction was not the same threads as the collar and was only on by about 1-2 threads, which resulted in a bad seal.  The ball valve on that suction was also leaking.

3. After I packed everything up, I double checked all of the discharge/intake caps, and found a few that were not as tight as they should be.

4. The kiddie pool wasn't very deep/big

 

I wasn't expecting it to hold a prime, since to my knowledge it's been around 10 years since it drafted, and was mostly drafting just to make sure the primer would do its job.  At least now I know what else I need to work on!

Short video of the drafting attempt:

https://www.facebook.com/896316497056489/videos/1160698303951639/

Any form of air getting through to the pump will prevent it from holding a prime.  Contrary to popular belief, you're not actually sucking the water up the hard tube.  You are lowering the atmospheric pressure in the pump housing (assuming its got no leaks) and the higher force of atmospheric pressure acting upon a static water supply is pushing the water up the hard tube.  This being said, a culprit to a pump not holding a prime are bad valves, drains and bleeders any where on the rig but specifically on the intake side of the pump.  Tank to pump valves, because they are constantly wet on the tank side are notorious for corroding and developing leaks over the years.  Therefore if your TTP valve is original or older, and you're not keeping the booster tank full, you'll draw air into the pump that way.  Also, even if you do have water in the tank, for extended drafting operations, a leaky TTP valve will siphon off the water in the tank and you'll lose prime randomly, hours later.  To solve this, after you've established a draft, crack the pump to tank valve just enough for the tank to stay full and drizzle out of the overflow.

[fxfymn]

What General Ike said. And one of the old tricks for getting a prime is to dump the tank water into the pump and out the hard sleeve to evacuate the air. It is kind of like the old song about using the last water to prime the pump instead of drinking it; you get one shot and you hope like hell it will work.

You don't need to use a sleeve to test the primer. Just watch the compound gauge and see if it holds a vacuum.

[ff6cav]

Went out drafting today, and the rig pumped for about 45 minutes with no problems!  Yesterday, I figured out which drain lines were broken and leaking, and capped off the ports for those lines where they come out of the pump; I'm pretty sure that was the main thing impeding it from keeping a prime before.

[ff6cav]

I spent this afternoon working on taking out the lines for the heat exchanger and removing the broken drain lines for the pump.  The drain lines had already been isolated and capped off at the pump.  One of them had 2 holes, and the other had 1, it appears that they  had frozen at one time and split.  

[ff6cav]

So in attempting to cap off the heat exchanger, I've found that nobody seems to carry fittings that fit those size lines.  I believe they are 7/16", because 3/8 is too small and 1/2 is too big, but can't find the correct size anywhere- advance auto, autozone, napa, even tried lowes and home depot in the plumbing section.  I was hoping to do the same thing as I did for the drain lines, cap it off with unions and plugs.  Anybody else done this before or have any insight?

[41chevy]

Try a hot rod or speed shop for  AN fittings.

[ff6cav]

1 hour ago, 41chevy said:

Try a hot rod or speed shop for  AN fittings.

That appears to be the solution, thank you!

[fxfymn]

Just remember that if you cap off the drains the pump will freeze if it is stored in below freezing temps this winter. I'd leave a reminder on the dash that you need to uncap the lines come this fall.

[1958 F.W.D.]

3 hours ago, fxfymn said:

Just remember that if you cap off the drains the pump will freeze if it is stored in below freezing temps this winter. I'd leave a reminder on the dash that you need to uncap the lines come this fall.

Very good advice however that alone will not prevent water that has accumulated in the rest of the pump (especially low points) from freezing. I am a firm believer in pressurizing a pump with LOW PRESSURE (no more than 10-15psi) air and opening each discharge and drain one at a time to evacuate any standing wayer. You need to take an extra discharge cap and drill and tap a hole for an air chuck. 

[fxfymn]

What Randy says. Any time you open a drain plug or valve and you don't see water (or Coolant) coming out you need to ensure the drain is not blocked. Use air, a piece of wire, or water pressure to make sure the drain is actually open.

[j hancock]

This may not be the case but I have sometimes run into National Pipe Straight thread (NPS) which is different than National Pipe Taper thread (NPT) when searching for bits and pieces.  Both threads have the same shape, angle and pitch.  NPT threads are tapered and the NPS thread are straight or parallel.

If this is redundant information please disregard the last transmission.

[609albert]

also you can put in RV antifreeze in the pump if you don't have any leaks ,my 750 mack takes about 12 gal. ,if the pump is left dry for any length of time rusting will start

[ff6cav]

Today, I acquired a set of hose reels, thanks to @Mike Rugh!

[ff6cav]

Started the process today of removing the exhaust manifold so I can get it fixed.  Soaked the nuts with PB blaster, and got 3 of them off before I had to go to work tonight.  1 whole stud came out, 1 just the nut came off(used some heat on that one), and 1 the stud broke off; there is enough sticking out that I should be able to get it out after I get the whole manifold off.  

Also a few days ago, I began prepping to paint some of the parts around the dog box, this is an in-progress shot

[609albert]

looks like a plan

[fxfymn]

Heat is a must for removing old exhaust manifold nuts and studs. You might try double nutting the stud and then turning the bottom nut so you back out the stud which is probably less corroded than the exposed portion. Good luck.

[ff6cav]

Some more progress over the last few days.  The exhaust manifold is off after a lot of sweat, heat, PB Blaster, and more than a few choice words directed at the rig!  Some of the nuts are a huge pain in the @$$ to access to try to remove!  The manifold was a little worse than originally thought, with 7 of the ears cracked all the way through.  I have a guy who says he can weld it, but he advised that I would probably be better off trying to find a good used one first, so with that said, I'm in the market for a 707 exhaust manifold.  I also plan to replace the right side spark plugs and at least some of the plug wires while the manifold is off; at least one was bad from the exhaust leak blowing directly on it for the last year and a half(and who knows how long before I got it), and we accidentally lit one on fire while working on the manifold 

[fxfymn]

Send Loadstar a PM. I think he has already been down this road so he may have some information about where to locate a manifold.

[Loadstar]

I would look for a replacement manifold....I had several people try welding mine, and each time it got progressively worse. 

[ff6cav]

8 hours ago, Loadstar said:

I would look for a replacement manifold....I had several people try welding mine, and each time it got progressively worse. 

10-4 on that, any suggestions on where to look? Nothing on ebay at the moment, and can't think of where to look locally other than Cal Little

[ff6cav]

Did a little paint work over the last few days on the pieces of the dog box.  Still scouring the interwebs for a replacement exhaust manifold

[HarryS]

If you can't find a manifold try these folks for welding:

http://www.castmetalwelding.com/Services.html

I've had him do several cast iron pieces for me including 1930s Cadillac  exhaust manifolds. Buck (I think that is his name) did a great job that is still holding up after about 10 years. The turn around time wasn't too bad, a couple of weeks, price was reasonable considering I couldn't find replacements. Good Luck.