firenut Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I am sure this has been asked before but a search proved no results... I am looking for a match to "Mack Medium Red #400". I recently purchased what was explained to be correct from a reputable online restoration paint company, and it seemed pinkish... Any suggestions as to where I can get a match or at least something close??? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 According to this link, Mack 400 matches different PPG codes depending on the year of the vehicle. Maybe this will help?http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?style=print&&manuf=Mack&gncl=Red&con=mc&rows=100&sort=dupont1950 should be PPG 70174. Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-291895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog13407 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 that's a pretty confusing chart Jim. so a B model could have been about 4 different numbers for code 400?? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-291906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah, I am not a fan of the chart either. Accuracy of information is suspect.Just use as a way to narrow down what codes are out there and get an idea of info to take to the paint store. It seems if I go into a paint store with some info, it lessens the blank stares from the staff. Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-291908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenut Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Thank You all... problem is that PPG says that 70174 is not a good number.... any other thoughts?? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-291992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Got any small part you can easily remove and carry with the color you need to match? A paint supplier can scan it and match it almost dead nuts. Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-291999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxfymn Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Are you totally repainting the rig or trying to match existing paint to do some repairs? Quote Money, sex, and fire; everybody thinks everyone else is getting more than they are! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-292054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenut Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Are you totally repainting the rig or trying to match existing paint to do some repairs?I am repainting some parts... I hope to have enough $$ in the next few years to send to Matt Pfahl for a complete repaint..... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-292104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Got any small part you can easily remove and carry with the color you need to match? A paint supplier can scan it and match it almost dead nuts.This is the route I went..... I took one of the compartment doors off. The paint supplier scanned it, got it close and then gave me some pigment to add to get it just right. The color looks a lot different when sprayed. Also the color the truck is now looks different then when it was new. You can see the difference from the inside compared to the outside of a compartment door. Some great advice I got was to get it close and call it good.... Otherwise you will drive yourself insane. Good luck......Louie 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-292107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxfymn Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Matching existing old paint is an entirely different game than just getting a factory number. The paint has faded, etc, over the years, so you will never match it with a direct factory correct color.I had mine scanned; make sure the piece is well waxed and try to do it in the sunshine; painted a fender and not even close. Went back to have it scanned again and ended up with a different number. Sanded off the new paint, re-shot it, and still no match. I then started mixing the two paints while keeping careful track of the ratios I mixed. After several tries I finally found the right mix. Bottom line is if you want a really close match you will need to experiment a little. Small patches held against the existing paint will help, but to get a true match you really have to shoot an area, let it dry, sand it out, and then look at it.I shot the fender at least five times before I was happy with it. The nice thing about paint is all you have to do is sand it off and try again.Your truck was probably shot with some type of acrylic enamel, so I would use that if it is available in your area. It is pretty easy to use and is not too outrageously expensive. I am paying about $50.00 per pint retail for red at my local supplier. Good luck. 2 Quote Money, sex, and fire; everybody thinks everyone else is getting more than they are! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-292270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Hatfield Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Kirker paint makes a correct red paint for Mack, It is reasonably priced and you should be able to find locally, Also a Mack Dealer has red paint also. The original paint number used on th e fire trucks in the '50's is a different number and is superceded to the #400 paint. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-292502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenut Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Well folks I am lost... I cannot get a good match to my 50 L model #400 medium red paint. Paint ref had it but it is the lacquer number and there is no cross according to ppg.. I tried contacting Matt Phfal but he doesn't give advice... Does anyone know any restorers out there who can help?? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-293890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Matching existing old paint is an entirely different game than just getting a factory number. The paint has faded, etc, over the years, so you will never match it with a direct factory correct color.I had mine scanned; make sure the piece is well waxed and try to do it in the sunshine; painted a fender and not even close. Went back to have it scanned again and ended up with a different number. Sanded off the new paint, re-shot it, and still no match. I then started mixing the two paints while keeping careful track of the ratios I mixed. After several tries I finally found the right mix. Bottom line is if you want a really close match you will need to experiment a little. Small patches held against the existing paint will help, but to get a true match you really have to shoot an area, let it dry, sand it out, and then look at it.I shot the fender at least five times before I was happy with it. The nice thing about paint is all you have to do is sand it off and try again.Your truck was probably shot with some type of acrylic enamel, so I would use that if it is available in your area. It is pretty easy to use and is not too outrageously expensive. I am paying about $50.00 per pint retail for red at my local supplier. Good luck. 1 Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-293892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxfymn Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Did they scan it? Quote Money, sex, and fire; everybody thinks everyone else is getting more than they are! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-293921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenut Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 They did but its too faded to get a good match... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-293924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddeere Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is a long shot. A few years ago Dupont had a color matching book. It had a page for each color with chips that showed what various tints did to change the colors and gave you the tint # to add to the paint. I had one and it was helpful. You might try a body shop and see what they are doing on color matches if the are not using the computer. Maybe some old shop still has this book. Some old paint and body men could look at a color and know what to add to match a color. Good luck on finding any of this. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-293928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 My supplier linked me to this sites to answer my question. Shows MACK color code # 400 from 1939 to 1986 listed as four different reds and four different Ditzler/ PPG mix codes. Appears to be year specific in many cases.http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?code=400&manuf=Mack&rows=50 Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-293940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenut Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 thanks! many folks have sent me to Paint Ref, and 70174 IS my color.... unfortunately the 70174 number is no good acording to my supplier.. by chance can you share your suppliers name? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-293944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 thanks! many folks have sent me to Paint Ref, and 70174 IS my color.... unfortunately the 70174 number is no good acording to my supplier.. by chance can you share your suppliers name?I use Goodfellow Auto Body Supply on L.I. THe MACK paint according to the manager was made by Ditzler from the mid 1930's to early mid 1950's. The #10174 DQE (DQE is ditzlco quick dry enamel) number is the mix code for plain old fashioned Enamel. Since the number does not cross reference to a DMR or DAR Ditzler/ PPG number they can't mix it. The DMR is Acrylic Urethane Enamel and DAR is PPG Del Star. It was also explained that when the original colors were made up to the mid 1960's there was only 12 to 15 tints now there are 80 plus tints. They suggested trying to find an older auto body supply, body shop or vintage collector that has late 1940's early 1950's color chips in R/M or Dupont. I mentioned TCI-Global for their Resto colors, their #400 / 70174 RED cross references to a 70185 DQE Light Red Diamond T / Dodge from 1934 to 1949 NOT MACK.I mentioned what you got was pinkish. If you sprayed it and let it dry 24 hours wa it still pinkish? If it was, their suggestion was to ask the people you got it from to give or sell the needed tint(s) to darken it up to close the needed color. Best I could do for you. Paul Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-294065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxfymn Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The faded color is what you are trying to match. If you put a panel painted with the original color next to a faded panel it will look like hell. Do a wet sanding using 2000 grit paper and then buff it with compound followed by polish, followed by wax. Have the sanded/polished panel scanned and then use whatever they come up with as your starting point.If the paint is too far gone to buff/sand out than your only choice is a total re-paint. 1 Quote Money, sex, and fire; everybody thinks everyone else is getting more than they are! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/40263-paint-troubles/#findComment-294112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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