Building a shop

[HeavyGunner]

I am starting to map out my shop that I hope gets built this summer. I am looking for any advice on any of those "wished I had did/or put blank in my shop". Right now I am not entirely sure if the shop gets to be a separate building ($$$) from the two stall garage for our daily drivers. If it is a separate building I'm thinking 30X50 with 12' walls and lean-to's on three sides with 2 overhead doors on the fourth side. I helped my dad build his shop and that was a good size for my needs. I plan on dedicating one stall to my Mack for its resto so I can tear it a part and not have to clean things up or move it when I'm done. The second overhead door will be at the opposite end of the shop (on the long side of the rectangle) and will be an open stall that I can pull in anything else that I need to work on. The middle of the shop is where I plan to have my fabrication stuff located for easy access to the tools from either stall. I would like to do radiant floor heat but from what I've heard it's really expensive so some kind of natural gas shop furnace will likely have to do. So am I overlooking anything? Or does anybody have any clever ideas I should use? Thanks for any help and advice.

[carlotpilot]

for your location don`t skimp on insulation

[Quickfarms]

Build it as big as you can afford

I built a 24 x 34.5 with a 16 wide 12 foot high door on one end and it is to small.

I planning a 30 x 40 with a 15 foot lean to on one side.

[gearhead204]

if you arnt fighting a heigth requirement i would go taller, a 12 eve heigth will only allow for a 10 foot high door if you use roll up doors. i would go 14' min, my shop im building is 20' but i plan on a bridge crane in the near future. the extra heigth would allow for windows just under the eves and still allow for a decent lean to. heres what i did ..... not saying its right but might give you some ideas, my next step is to lean to the sides once i finish the shell and get the floor in, i will go 20 feet on each side.

[Phase 1]

I would put a grease pit in a shop that I would build. And put steps on the edges to cover it with planks for times that floor space may be needed.

[HeavyGunner]

I would put a grease pit in a shop that I would build. And put steps on the edges to cover it with planks for times that floor space may be needed.

I was thinking of either a pit or maybe a lift. Either way it would be very handy to have.

if you arnt fighting a heigth requirement i would go taller, a 12 eve heigth will only allow for a 10 foot high door if you use roll up doors. i would go 14' min, my shop im building is 20' but i plan on a bridge crane in the near future. the extra heigth would allow for windows just under the eves and still allow for a decent lean to. heres what i did ..... not saying its right but might give you some ideas, my next step is to lean to the sides once i finish the shell and get the floor in, i will go 20 feet on each side.

Hardly any ordinances out here in BFE, I like the idea of having the windows under the eves for the extra natural light and like carlotpilot said don't skimp on insulation I am not. That is one place I will spend lots of money because it's not unusual to go for weeks at times where the high temp for the day might be in the single digits. Thanks for the ideas guys keep 'me coming.

[mrsmackpaul]

I would go tall as you can never know when you will have something big on and the truck needs some work just drive it strait in

3 phase power big wires for heaps of power

If its going to be on the same block of land I would put a second set of wires in so if the power goes out in the house you can sit a generator in the shed that way its nice and quiet at the house

water hot and cold

a big concrete apron out side for washing the toys on that slopes away from the shed

the list could go on for ever

Paul

[68-f-model]

Run the radiant heat. It isnt that expensive and will be much more comfortable than a regular furnace. Just put down couple inches of insulation under and around your slab before you pour it. Regardless of the idea that you won't loose heat to the ground which is b.s. insulated the slab or you WILL be heating the ground and that is wasted $$. Having the floor warm is something you will never regret. Simply run 1/2 inch pex in 300 ft loops on about a 8 inch spacing, hook to your choice of hot water source and pump.

My house is entirely radiant as is my buddies 40x60 shop and attached garage. I wouldn't trade it for all the forced air furnaces in the world.

[1958 F.W.D.]

1. Another vote for radiant slab heat. We have it in our firehouse and the shit is AWESOME.

2. Install a waste oil burner for the boiler for the radiant slab heat, but with a natural gas or propane backup if all of your friends stop bringing you their waste oil.

3. Slab: minimum of 8" thick, 4000psi concrete with #5 bars 16" OCEW with 5" WWM.

4. If you do any trailer work you'd need 14' high doors.

5. Don't forget a man cave with an office for your research and of course a bar and pool table. And locking doors with electronic sensors that disable the doorknobs if they detect females.

6. Big power. Don't skimp.

[Maddog13407]

agree on the radient floor heat. it will make you wanna lay on a creeper on a cold day. forced air oil or gas is a thing of the past

[mowerman]

best of luck with it,,,,,exciting.woohoo...bob

[HarryS]

I would definitely go with the radiant heat. My shop is 30X60 with 12' ceilings and hanging electric heat which works from the waist up and your feet freeze. Our winters are nowhere near as cold as yours. I would also trade the 12'X12' five foot deep pit for a lift, might just do it one day.

[HeavyGunner]

a big concrete apron out side for washing the toys on that slopes away from the shed

the list could go on for ever

Paul

That is a great idea, never thought of that but boy would be nice to wash things off and not be standing in mud and then wait a week for the puddle in front of the shop to dry up

[Gmerrill0516]

It is a luxury but even a hand geared overhead bridge crane is an excellent tool when working on heavy stuff...My Dad has one in his shop and it has always made jobs easy for one man to do, no matter how heavy the load. I'd start at 5 ton capacity and go up. You can do one bay or the whole thing...covering the whole floor is the most flexible arrangement of course.

I like the radiant heat concept too...If I ever wind up owning the old man's place I'll have to look at some serious insulation as there isn't any...I think I could just use 4" refer panels all over to make it toasty/cool depending on the season.

[DCR]

I built a 32 X 60 building for the home of my bus, think motorhome. I used ceiling mounted radiant heat and am very satisfied with it. The walls are 2 x 6 X 16 studs which allows for a 14 x 14 overhead door and 6 inches of wall insulation. The ceiling is nearly 17 feet high. The concrete floor is 6 inches thick consisting of fiber reinforcement and rebar. My bus weighs almost 50,000 lbs and I do not have a single crack in it after 7 years. It has center floor drains and running water.

I have since added a lean-to on either side for additional covered protection for outdoor equipment.

A pit is nice but it greatly restricts the use of the building. I thought about having one in mine but decided against it and have not regretted it.

[eddeere]

A lot of good ideas here. Radiant heat is the way to go if you use the shop a lot in the winter. Some of the farmers here have that most love it. A couple who use their shops on an infrequent basis have installed waste oil or propane back up on days that they will only be in the short time and not plan on using the shop for a while. I have a 40'x60'14'H. 20x12 and a 10x10 door. A paint booth on one corner with a rest room and shower. Hot and cold water, a slop sink and grate floor drain. I have wood heat with celling fans to push the heat down also A/C. I Have 2 overhead beams with 4 chain hoists. My old shop was only 32' deep which was not deep enough. The bigger the better until time to heat and cool it

[68-f-model]

Things to consider about infloor raidiant:

Pros:

-extremely comfortable for working on the floor

-anything touching the floor is warm (toasty wrenches)

-any winter time slush and ice melts quickly

-most energy efficent as it puts the heat where you are not 14 ft about your head

-huge thermal mass in the concrete (maintains constant temp)

-no dust blowing around

-even heat across the shop

Cons:

-not instant at raising building temperature (best for shops that are continunally heated)

-requires some form of antifreeze mix if there is even a chance the heat coud go out

[Kansas farmer]

My 2 cents. I pretty much agree with all these guys. Radiant heat ishe way to go also the taller the better. We have a 18 wide 13 ft tall door and it's not big enough. Taller is better. One thing not mentioned is a bathroom. We just finished ours up and wish we would have done it a long time ago saves a lot of bitching former he wife when you come in the house with greasy hands.

[Kansas farmer]

Oh sorry forgot about lights. The older you get the darker it gets. My neighbor just built a shop and he put in a bunch of t5 fixtures and wired them in so you don't have to turn them all on.

[HeavyGunner]

it sounds like radiant floor heat kept at a reasonable constant temperature might be more cost effective than a furnace with the thermostat left at 50 (so nothing freezes) until you come to work in it and turn it up. I will be doing a lot of work in the shop when it's cold. Winters can be reeeally long here sometimes and I need a warm place to do all my jimmy-riggin' on my treasures.

[Ezrider]

i have a 12 foot door wish i had 14 foot also wish i had more 240 outlets just got one centered in the shop but wish but really both ends and center would be nice. my shop is 25x50 wish it was bigger at least long enough to put a truck and trailer inside at the same time and close the door. figure as big as you need then double it and it will probably still be to small...lol

[HeavyGunner]

. figure as big as you need then double it and it will probably still be to small...lol

That seems to be a common theme among shop owners. I am going to build it as big as I want to afford (within reason, not too small) not necessarily what I can afford. The I am planning things I will have my home paid off in 13years from now my shop in fifteen and I will have my 20 in with the company I work for with 401k + a pension. So I want the option of not being in debt at all and if I choose to start my second career in something that I am really passionate about I could give it a go and not hurt myself as far as retirement goes. Or I could put in 20 more years with the same outfit

[Dirtymilkman]

No matter the cost, spray foam insulation. That stuff is amazing! Seals up all crevices and the R value is amazing. It does pay for itself.

Floor heat is amazing but the recovery time is very poor. And you might as well leave it turned up all winter. I love infrared tube heaters.....no air blowing and runs for pennies.

Another great option is perforated steel on the inside. Quiets things down alot. It'll save your ears.

Make sure you have good floor drains and good drainage for them.

You can never have to much lighting. With the l.e.d. options out there you can have daylight inside and they dont cost alot to run.

If you're thinking of a grease pit, think of this. You can buy a 30,000 pound 4 post hoist for what it would cost to put in a really nice pit. Plus you can use it for cars. You can get a good one for around$13,000.

I also have a chapel style ceiling and I gained about an extra 2 1/2 feet of ceiling.

[fxfymn]

Make sure you have an outlet for the welder near a door for those projects you cannot get inside.

Use hanging outlets between the bays with a pulley arrangement that will allow you to pull the cord up and out of the way. At the least put outlets near the doors.

Run steel or copper pipe for the air system with plenty of outlets and drains. Install a dryer if at all possible.

I used OSB T-111 for the interior finish instead of drywall. It allows you to fasten shelves, cabinets, old Playboy calendars, etc.anywhere you want without looking for a stud. I screwed it up so it allows me to pull it down if I need to add a circuit, cable tv, etc. The sheets were pre-painted, so the cost was about the same as drywall.

From a fire prevention view point a pit is dangerous since most flammable liquid vapors are heavier than air and will "pool" in a pit. I would also check with the insurance carrier to see how they feel about a pit.

Install some type of fire detection system such as rate of rise detection and tie it to a panel that will automatically notify an alarm company. Way too many shops burn down before anybody notices with the loss of irreplaceable trucks and cars. Even if you are in a rural area without good fire service wouldn't you want to know about a problem in time to save a truck or maybe put the fire out yourself?

Raise the concrete or block up at least 12" above the floor to prevent water damage to the walls.

[thomastractorsvc]

I agree and disagree my experience working in mine

Agree

SPRAY FOAM closed cell this past winter had the roof and gables done and all joints/corners and was immediately cost effective

at least 14 high side walls, 16 if you want to do aloft and do scissor truss even on one end for the loft head space

4 post lift vs pit

radiant heat

6" floor with rebar and fiber

water and bath room

concrete apron at least 20 ft in front of doors

220 outlet near door

water near door

Disagree

Radiant Floor-My neighbor was constantly battling fuel use vs warmth. He just finished re-insulating has R 21 in the walls and R 32 on the roof and was only able to cut his propane use by 1/3rd at 60 degrees 40x60 16 ft walls 6 inch slab with reflective insulation on the ceiling. He is now going to install a forced air or overhead radiant heat system to supplement and has also are trenched around the slab and added more stryofoam to the edges based on a ac/heat engineer recommendation

Wish list

add air lines in floor in the center as well as electrical

exhaust fan/ventilation

Doors on side vs end ( mine is 30x50x14) I also have lean to on one side 14 x 50 ( id id not build it it was here when we bought but if it sat the other direction I would not be looking at building another building.