Flying the unfriendly skies

[41chevy]

Actually the head of Chicago Airport Police Union Rep said the officer who dragged the doctor off was a plain clothes agent.. IMO just one more lie /excuse to save their butts.

Seems to be many empty seats in flight out of China. after the CGTN  (Chinese Global Television News) mentioned the doctor was Chinese. Pretty interesting op-ed on it this morning on the U.S. news segment..

Edited April 13, 2017 by 41chevy

[kscarbel2]

1 hour ago, BillyT said:

Was listening to a talk show and several experienced fliers said foreign airlines, especially Asian ones, treat their passengers much better than American based airlines! Another frequent flier recommended that even if you use an American airline, you should book it at one of their foreign bases!

Billy, most global airlines treat you 500 percent better than US airlines. They're among the world's worst. From Finnair to Lufthansa, from Turkish to South African, they all treat you better. And for some time now, Emirates has been the global benchmark. Unlike flying with US airlines, they treat you like a paying customer rather than cattle.

[kscarbel2]

 

[RowdyRebel]

Perhaps that is because in those foreign countries, not everybody CAN fly, so they are used to dealing with people with a little more class who know how to behave? Here, anybody and everybody can afford to fly, and a sense of entitlement permeates amongst the population. Used to be a time here when flying was a big deal...and you dressed "appropriately" for the occasion. I'm sure the decline in quality of service correlates with the decline in the general quality of passengers.

[grayhair]

Heard today the passenger (victim) suffered a broken nose and two teeth were knocked out.  l wonder if those teeth will end up on Ebay?

[Freightrain]

After doing some reading, it seems that "IF" he would have just gotten off and talked he could have discussed the situation, gotten another flight, and been home without any incident.  Guess he chose what's behind curtain #2?

[RowdyRebel]

5 hours ago, Freightrain said:

After doing some reading, it seems that "IF" he would have just gotten off and talked he could have discussed the situation, gotten another flight, and been home without any incident.  Guess he chose what's behind curtain #2?

He paid for that seat on that plane who knows how long ago. Like he said, he had to get home because he had patients scheduled that were relying upon him to be there to see. Why should HIS business have to shut down for a day, leaving HIS customers hung out to dry just because the airline screwed up and overbooked knowing their employees had to get to Louisville? The $800 they were offering wasn't going to cover his losses from taking a flight out the next day...so why should he have accepted it? Hell, $800 wouldn't cover my lost revenues for a day and I'm no doctor! So yeah, the situation could have been avoided had he lost patients because he couldn't see them as promised. The situation could have been avoided if the airline hadn't over booked, or if the airline had offered reasonable enough compensation to have garnered sufficient volunteers so as to avoid forcibly removing paying customers. Hell, the situation also could have been avoided if the airline, realizing the goofed up, made alternate arrangements for their employees...rented a car, put them on a bus, train, or another airline...so as not to inconvenience the paying customers who were already seated on the plane.

So yeah, the situation could have been avoided...but had I been in that same situation, I wouldn't have given up my seat either. If you want me to vacate the plane, you need to compensate me for my time waiting for that next plane IN ADDITION TO the lost revenue I'd suffer from not being able to work PLUS the damage to my reputation from missing work. $800 and a motel room doesn't even come close. The one difference between me & the doc is that I wouldn't have sat there peacefully once the punches started flying. I would have defended myself against the aggression. I wasn't raised to turn the other cheek. You hit me, I hit back.

[Freightrain]

I bet MANY more people read all the fine print before buying a plane ticket?   It's a legal contract, so if you don't like it, ride the bus.

[kscarbel2]

5 hours ago, Freightrain said:

After doing some reading, it seems that "IF" he would have just gotten off and talked he could have discussed the situation, gotten another flight, and been home without any incident.  Guess he chose what's behind curtain #2?

What?  Curtains?

Why should the doctor get off the aircraft?

United offered him a ticket.

He accepted and presented payment.

United accepted his payment and gave him an assigned seat - an agreement was thus consummated.

He was asked to board the plane and take his assigned, purchased seat......and did so.

Then, solely because of the poor management practices at United and/or its privately owned United Express partner, Republic Airlines, it needed to rush a flight crew to another city and desired, incorrectly, to remove the doctor and 3 other paying customers from the aircraft post-boarding.

To say the least, any effort to reduce the customer head count by four to accommodate the 4-person flight crew should have taken place BEFORE boarding.

This gentleman, in my opinion, did nothing wrong.

For the record, customers (passengers) have told the media that Dr. Dao was never "belligerent" at any time.

[kscarbel2]

 

[kscarbel2]

Chicago Tribune  /  April 11, 2017

I was on United flight 3411. Here's what I saw.

Unfortunately, I was aboard United Airlines flight 3411 from Chicago to Louisville, Kentucky on Sunday. Even more unfortunate was the fact that I was returning from a spring break trip with seven of my students from Louisville Male High School who also witnessed the unconscionable treatment of the passenger.

The disgusting mishandling of the situation included everyone from the rude ticket agent who demanded that this man give up his seat on the flight United overbooked, to one of the officers laughing in the midst of the incident, to the violent, abusive way the passenger was dragged off the plane by the officer. It was the worst possible model for my students, and frankly, was traumatizing to many of us who watched this from such close proximity.

What are we modeling for our children? Are we teaching our children to scream at other people, to jump quickly to force if we can’t get the results we want, to use violence to solve problems, to have total disrespect for other people?

I was appalled at how United Airlines and the officers handled the situation, but I was also encouraged by my fellow passengers’ attempts to interfere — despite how helpless we all felt. Some passengers audibly protested to the officers, some stood and removed themselves from the plane rather than continue to witness the abuse, and one father, while trying to console his 8-year-old daughter, confronted the officer saying, among other things, “you ought to be ashamed of yourself!” These are the models of which I hope our children will see more.

 

— Jason Powell, Louisville, Kentucky

[kscarbel2]

A statement from the United Master Executive Council, the union representing the airline's 12,500 pilots.

As the story of United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic Airline, continues to virally circulate in the news and on social media, your United Master Executive Council (MEC) has intentionally withheld judgment because of the rapid pace at which information, both accurate and inaccurate, has been released and manipulated. The safety and well-being of our passengers is the highest priority for United pilots, and this should not have escalated into a violent encounter. United pilots are infuriated by this event. This occurred on one of our contracted Express carriers, separately owned and operated by Republic Airline, and was ultimately caused by the grossly inappropriate response by the Chicago Department of Aviation.

It is important to review these baseline facts:

1. This violent incident should never have happened and was a result of gross excessive force by Chicago Department of Aviation personnel.

2. No United employees were involved in the physical altercation.

3. Social media ire should properly be directed at the Chicago Aviation Department.

4. This occurred on an Express flight operated by Republic Airline, as such, the flight crew and cabin crew of Flight 3411 are employees of Republic Airline, not United Airlines.

5. United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz has apologized for United Airlines, the actions of the Chicago Department of Aviation, and the actions of our Express partner, Republic Airline.

On April 9, 2017, United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic, was preparing to depart Chicago O’Hare (ORD) to Louisville (SDF). Republic Airline made the decision to assign four of their crewmembers to deadhead on Flight 3411 within minutes of the scheduled departure. Although four passengers would have to be removed from this flight to accommodate the Republic crew, the goal was to get the other 70 passengers on their way to SDF and ensure a flight crew needed the next day would also be in place. By all reports, the Republic flight crew was courteous and calm throughout the event, and three passengers left the flight voluntarily for compensation. After repeatedly asking the fourth passenger to give up his seat to no avail, the gate agent requested the assistance of law enforcement.

For reasons unknown to us, instead of trained Chicago Police Department officers being dispatched to the scene, Chicago Department of Aviation personnel responded. At this point, without direction and outside the control of United Airlines or the Republic crew [a lie - blame deflection], the Chicago Department of Aviation forcibly removed the passenger. 

Members of local airport law enforcement are normally important security partners who assist aircrews in ensuring the safety of everyone on the airplane. This event was an anomaly and is not how United or the police are expected to treat passengers when there is no security threat.

United pilots have always been the true leaders of this company, and our fellow employees count on us to continue to do what we do best—deliver a world class product and safely transport our passengers around the world. We cannot let this huge distraction affect our ability to do our jobs. We have successfully flown through more turbulent times, and we will weather this storm as well.

Ultimately, United must be measured by more than this one incident on a single United Express flight; this airline is comprised of more than 82,000 employees, including over 12,500 pilots, working every day to safely fly around the globe. For 91 years, United has earned the trust of millions of passengers, and we will continue earning their trust, despite the incident on this United Express flight. The United Airlines MEC is confident that the steps we are taking as a company will ensure this type of inexcusable event never happens again.'

[fxfymn]

Quote

Perhaps that is because in those foreign countries, not everybody CAN fly, so they are used to dealing with people with a little more class who know how to behave? Here, anybody and everybody can afford to fly, and a sense of entitlement permeates amongst the population. Used to be a time here when flying was a big deal...and you dressed "appropriately" for the occasion. I'm sure the decline in quality of service correlates with the decline in the general quality of passengers.

I would respectfully disagree. One of the worst United flights I took was because of the rude behavior of a large group of Chinese passengers on a flight from Beijing to Dulles. They ignored the crew's orders, roaming the plane even when the fasten seat belt sign was on, and proceeded to put out what could only be described as their own buffet.

People are people no matter their nationality, social status, or wealth. Either you are respectful of others or you are not. 

[41chevy]

5 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

A statement from the United Master Executive Council, the union representing the airline's 12,500 pilots.

As the story of United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic Airline, continues to virally circulate in the news and on social media, your United Master Executive Council (MEC) has intentionally withheld judgment because of the rapid pace at which information, both accurate and inaccurate, has been released and manipulated. The safety and well-being of our passengers is the highest priority for United pilots, and this should not have escalated into a violent encounter. United pilots are infuriated by this event. This occurred on one of our contracted Express carriers, separately owned and operated by Republic Airline, and was ultimately caused by the grossly inappropriate response by the Chicago Department of Aviation.

It is important to review these baseline facts:

1. This violent incident should never have happened and was a result of gross excessive force by Chicago Department of Aviation personnel.

2. No United employees were involved in the physical altercation.

3. Social media ire should properly be directed at the Chicago Aviation Department.

4. This occurred on an Express flight operated by Republic Airline, as such, the flight crew and cabin crew of Flight 3411 are employees of Republic Airline, not United Airlines.

5. United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz has apologized for United Airlines, the actions of the Chicago Department of Aviation, and the actions of our Express partner, Republic Airline.

On April 9, 2017, United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic, was preparing to depart Chicago O’Hare (ORD) to Louisville (SDF). Republic Airline made the decision to assign four of their crewmembers to deadhead on Flight 3411 within minutes of the scheduled departure. Although four passengers would have to be removed from this flight to accommodate the Republic crew, the goal was to get the other 70 passengers on their way to SDF and ensure a flight crew needed the next day would also be in place. By all reports, the Republic flight crew was courteous and calm throughout the event, and three passengers left the flight voluntarily for compensation. After repeatedly asking the fourth passenger to give up his seat to no avail, the gate agent requested the assistance of law enforcement.

For reasons unknown to us, instead of trained Chicago Police Department officers being dispatched to the scene, Chicago Department of Aviation personnel responded. At this point, without direction and outside the control of United Airlines or the Republic crew [a lie - blame deflection], the Chicago Department of Aviation forcibly removed the passenger. 

Members of local airport law enforcement are normally important security partners who assist aircrews in ensuring the safety of everyone on the airplane. This event was an anomaly and is not how United or the police are expected to treat passengers when there is no security threat.

United pilots have always been the true leaders of this company, and our fellow employees count on us to continue to do what we do best—deliver a world class product and safely transport our passengers around the world. We cannot let this huge distraction affect our ability to do our jobs. We have successfully flown through more turbulent times, and we will weather this storm as well.

Ultimately, United must be measured by more than this one incident on a single United Express flight; this airline is comprised of more than 82,000 employees, including over 12,500 pilots, working every day to safely fly around the globe. For 91 years, United has earned the trust of millions of passengers, and we will continue earning their trust, despite the incident on this United Express flight. The United Airlines MEC is confident that the steps we are taking as a company will ensure this type of inexcusable event never happens again.'

Unfortunalty the Captain is involved and responsible. Like the captain of a ship, HE is responsible both directly or indirectly for the safety, needs and well being of his passengers and all actions take on his aircraft by crew, passengers or others.

[Freightrain]

The video clip I watched had the good Doctor spouting off about "you are going to have to take me to jail", and something along the lines of beat me to take me.  Ya, he was not a willing passenger to follow the orders of the police.  The police were doing THEIR job.  He was resisting, he got what he was asking for.

In all my years, I've never seen ONE person that ever walked away from a situation like this.  It always ends up bad no matter how big of an attitude you have.

Three other passengers all got up and walked off without incident.  Barring his doctor credentials, he could have dealt with the situation better.  The old "he's a doctor, he has patients to see" is crap.  Just watch the news and see how many flights get cancelled due to weather or what not.  He is not the first person in the world that would have had to change his plans.  Put your big boy pants on and deal with it like an adult.

 

 

[kscarbel2]

 

[kscarbel2]

3 hours ago, Freightrain said:

The video clip I watched had the good Doctor spouting off about "you are going to have to take me to jail", and something along the lines of beat me to take me.  Ya, he was not a willing passenger to follow the orders of the police.  The police were doing THEIR job.  He was resisting, he got what he was asking for.

In all my years, I've never seen ONE person that ever walked away from a situation like this.  It always ends up bad no matter how big of an attitude you have.

Three other passengers all got up and walked off without incident.  Barring his doctor credentials, he could have dealt with the situation better.  The old "he's a doctor, he has patients to see" is crap.  Just watch the news and see how many flights get cancelled due to weather or what not.  He is not the first person in the world that would have had to change his plans.  Put your big boy pants on and deal with it like an adult.

I'm lost here. How were the Chicago airport security officers doing their job? Is removing a passenger who's done nothing wrong their job? The gentleman purchased a ticket and took his seat. He committed no crime. One of United's regional jet contractors, Republic, didn't do their homework well and needed to get a 4-person flight crew on that plane at the last minute. Why should paying customers with assigned seats "already on the aircraft and seated" have to get off? They've certainly committed no crime. United can "offer" compensation to seek volunteers, but their customers have the right to refuse. It's not the customer's duty to suffer in any way due to United's incompetence.

I'm not a doctor, but I wouldn't have gotten off. Every flight on United is a unique nightmare, because of the airline.......not me. I bought a ticket to fly from A to B on a certain date because I've places to be and things to do.

Weather-related flight issues are an act of God. Those are unavoidable. However 99 percent of the issues I experience when flying United are purely caused by it being a horribly run airline. It's a truck rolling down the road with the wheels ready to fall off.

[41chevy]

Ironically, United has now "lost" Dr Dao's luggage. .  .

[BillyT]

The "politics" of this whole situation make my head hurt! The doctor was not a felon, he was a paid passenger on a major airline! How did he get his teeth knocked out and face smashed? The two officers certainly weren't in any danger from a small elderly person! I don't know when the flight attendants had to report for duty in Louisville,but it is an easy six hour interstate run from Chicago how about rent a camper and Driver so they could nap on the way? Would cost waaay less than what they offered the people to give up their seats! Not to mention the millions the very public civil suit will generate especially when every high dollar attorney in America will stand in line to take the case for the publicity! I love it when an arrogant corporate entity steps in it up to the eyeballs! 

[david wild]

I like KLM, learned about the banana bar in Amsterdam from one of them, flew from Amsterdam to Ghana, woke late in the evening to find a blond goddess curled next to me, first class on KLM is first class, anyway I thought plane crashed and I died then buzzer went off an goddess had to get up and help another passenger but then came back, boy I really like KLM.    

[RowdyRebel]

I don't know that I'd want to fly United. Bet this passenger wishes he'd been bumped from his flight. Not quite snakes on a plane...but potentially just as lethal.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/04/13/scorpion-stings-man-aboard-united-airlines-flight.html

 

[kscarbel2]

United had more pet deaths in 2016 than any other major US airline

Business Insider  /  April 15, 2017

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/2017FebruaryATCR.pdf

.

[mowerman]

I say send the jap a bottle of iodine..And a box of Kleenex. And back to work if he ever really had a job to begin with.. remember the vet... And Jesus......So you got your feelings hurt..... Blow your nose and move on. Bob
 

[kscarbel2]

39 minutes ago, mowerman said:

I say send the jap a bottle of iodine..And a box of Kleenex. And back to work if he ever really had a job to begin with.. remember the vet... And Jesus......So you got your feelings hurt..... Blow your nose and move on. Bob
 

C'mon Bob.   "the Jap"  ???  That kind of talk is not indicative of the high caliber person you are.  (He's Vietnamese anyway)

If United Airlines had thugs drag you out of your seat and smash your head against armrests as they pulled you down the aisle resulting in you getting a concussion, broken nose and two of your front teeth knocked out, all because you criminally wanted to remain in your ticketed seat and get back home and to work the next day, the entire BMT membership would be supporting you.

[kscarbel2]

The Washington Post  /  April 15, 2017

United Airlines has changed its policy to no longer allow crew members to displace passengers who are already seated on a plane.

Under the new policy, airline crews are required to check in at least an hour before a flight leaves [as paying domestic flight customers are asked to do].

United spokeswoman Maggie Schmerin said the new policy is meant to ensure that incidents will "never happen again."

Previously, crews could be booked up until the time of departure, Schmerin said.

According to an internal email, crews who are not checked in within the 60-minute window will have to book the next available flight.

No crew member "can displace a customer who has boarded an aircraft," according to the email, which was sent out Friday.

United Airlines chief executive Oscar Munoz has also promised to review policies on how United handles overbooked flights, and to have a public report by April 30.

In a statement issued Thursday, United said the company will no longer ask law enforcement officers to remove passengers from flights "unless it is a matter of safety and security."