Mack 2v 300 Fuel Engine Problem

[jakebrake13]

To all that put in in to this posting...

THANK YOU!!!!

We finally got her running late last night, changed out pump for spare. ran rack new air cleaner. run great again!!! You guys here are the greatest!

[Rob]

Rob I guess that is what you could call it!

We have a rarly used hi preasure timer at work that requires just hooking it to the inlet and pluging off the outlet it builds enough preasure to lift the delivery valves off the seats!I much rather use the above method my self!

As would I, FJH. High pressure test equipment need periodic recalibration to be accurate. Too much trust is placed into a tool without regard to it's accuracy many times. Example: How many mechanics send their torque wrenches in for calibration over it's life cycle?

My eyeballs do not require outside calibration to see what is right and not. In this fuel example, if fuel is flowing from the missing delivery valve in the injection pump, and your timing pointer is indicating correct reference, something else needs adjusted. This is where the round cover on the timing cover and the bolts through the gear come into play! When the diesel fuel stops flowing at the instant the pointer is referenced to the correct marking on the harmonic balancer, the engine is in time.

I would still send the pump and injectors into a shop for calibration together. The injectors will come back marked with which cylinder they are to be installed into, (usually). This is because each individual plunger and barrel inside the pump housing is adjustable for stoke output. As the plungers and barrels wear from usage, they deliver less output. This can be adjusted by loosening lockscrews holding the discharge adjustment. the barrel is then rotated and calibrated for a specific "pump shot" at a predetermined pressure within the adjustment range.

What I'm saying here is that you know little about the pump you have now installed. It is not calibrated for the injection nozzels it is running. You stand a chance of burning, or washing the engine and neither is what you want to do!

It is great you were able to determine the original pump was bad and that you had a spare part.

If we can help further don't hesitate to ask.

Rob

[fjh]

As would I, FJH. High pressure test equipment need periodic recalibration to be accurate. Too much trust is placed into a tool without regard to it's accuracy many times. Example: How many mechanics send their torque wrenches in for calibration over it's life cycle?

My eyeballs do not require outside calibration to see what is right and not. In this fuel example, if fuel is flowing from the missing delivery valve in the injection pump, and your timing pointer is indicating correct reference, something else needs adjusted. This is where the round cover on the timing cover and the bolts through the gear come into play! When the diesel fuel stops flowing at the instant the pointer is referenced to the correct marking on the harmonic balancer, the engine is in time.

I would still send the pump and injectors into a shop for calibration together. The injectors will come back marked with which cylinder they are to be installed into, (usually). This is because each individual plunger and barrel inside the pump housing is adjustable for stoke output. As the plungers and barrels wear from usage, they deliver less output. This can be adjusted by loosening lockscrews holding the discharge adjustment. the barrel is then rotated and calibrated for a specific "pump shot" at a predetermined pressure within the adjustment range.

What I'm saying here is that you know little about the pump you have now installed. It is not calibrated for the injection nozzels it is running. You stand a chance of burning, or washing the engine and neither is what you want to do!

It is great you were able to determine the original pump was bad and that you had a spare part.

If we can help further don't hesitate to ask.

Rob

Rob amen to that bro!

good luck with it 13

The problem with sending the pump out is that alot of guys hestate to chuck up old pumps to there equipment for fear of contamination of their equipment! Id be hesitant too!Sounds as thou this a play truck so as long as it runs what the hey!

[theakerstwo]

Both ways of timing is great and the end is the same the only thing with the hipressure pump way is it is and so many guys is not clean with the other way of timing and will get dirt in the fuel system. But the end will be the same. For many years that is the way mack recomened to time and that was called port closing by Bosch. The electric pump came out in about 79 or 80 and was so simple for some but we all dont got one.That is the same way with timing the robert Bosch pump you can use the light or buzzer or you can use the little plastic indicator like they had years ago and now cummins is using it on the 5.9 and 8.3 engine. The light is better only because the plastic indicator can break easy and it is about 70.00 to by. The one thing you need to remember about the electric pump is if you have a barrel and plunger that has a lot of wear on it it will take along time to shut off and that could cause you to set it too slow on the timing. glenn

[fjh]

Both ways of timing is great and the end is the same the only thing with the hipressure pump way is it is and so many guys is not clean with the other way of timing and will get dirt in the fuel system. But the end will be the same. For many years that is the way mack recomened to time and that was called port closing by Bosch. The electric pump came out in about 79 or 80 and was so simple for some but we all dont got one.That is the same way with timing the robert Bosch pump you can use the light or buzzer or you can use the little plastic indicator like they had years ago and now cummins is using it on the 5.9 and 8.3 engine. The light is better only because the plastic indicator can break easy and it is about 70.00 to by. The one thing you need to remember about the electric pump is if you have a barrel and plunger that has a lot of wear on it it will take along time to shut off and that could cause you to set it too slow on the timing. glenn

For me its easier to pull out my blow tube and pop out the delivery vale than to drag the dam machine out of moth balls!The light thing is ok as long as the tone wheel hasent sliped I had that once I ended up turning the pump by hand till I could see the fuel just start to rise on no 1 cyl slamed the pump gear back in with the engine on the timng mark and it ran fine!

[Rob]

Both ways of timing is great and the end is the same the only thing with the hipressure pump way is it is and so many guys is not clean with the other way of timing and will get dirt in the fuel system. But the end will be the same. For many years that is the way mack recomened to time and that was called port closing by Bosch. The electric pump came out in about 79 or 80 and was so simple for some but we all dont got one.That is the same way with timing the robert Bosch pump you can use the light or buzzer or you can use the little plastic indicator like they had years ago and now cummins is using it on the 5.9 and 8.3 engine. The light is better only because the plastic indicator can break easy and it is about 70.00 to by. The one thing you need to remember about the electric pump is if you have a barrel and plunger that has a lot of wear on it it will take along time to shut off and that could cause you to set it too slow on the timing. glenn

Hi Glenn, I've never seen one of the high pressure setups for a Mack engine. My limited experience is from training manuals with little hands on experience. The term "spill port timing" is from one of the generator manuals and resident training from many moons ago. I do know that my Thermodyne engines are timed for 27 degrees port closing. This is in effect engine static timing as I recall.

I can't say I've ever been around an electric Mack engine, or pump either. I've seen and played with many mechanical pumps through the years, but never actually calibrated one myself. Always been able to make an acceptable "trade for services" when I needed something done. Always liked business that was fair to both parties rather than swapping funds.

Rob

[theakerstwo]

For me its easier to pull out my blow tube and pop out the delivery vale than to drag the dam machine out of moth balls!The light thing is ok as long as the tone wheel hasent sliped I had that once I ended up turning the pump by hand till I could see the fuel just start to rise on no 1 cyl slamed the pump gear back in with the engine on the timng mark and it ran fine!

My brother had a dozer that he repower with a 5.9 cummins so he said that where he got it they told him they could not start it. so he said i fix. He pulled the pump and sent it to pump shop and it was found to be ok. He installed and still no start. He pull pump again and said check it out some more. This time he got a paint job and a bill cause they had over looked some thing. I had told him to tell the man that was to work on it to check the timing . It was a 7100 p pump.He install and no start. He pulled engine because it was easy and brought to me. We check and by pulling the injectors and i connected one to the # 1 fuel line and as we turn it over it was injecting fuel on the bottom of the stroke. I told him to pull and take back and to tell the same man that checked the pump timing to call. He never did call but told my brother that the tone wheel did slip. That was hard for them to exsplain why he had it in there 2 times and never checked the timing to the cpl. That is the first thing that should have been done.

[fjh]

My brother had a dozer that he repower with a 5.9 cummins so he said that where he got it they told him they could not start it. so he said i fix. He pulled the pump and sent it to pump shop and it was found to be ok. He installed and still no start. He pull pump again and said check it out some more. This time he got a paint job and a bill cause they had over looked some thing. I had told him to tell the man that was to work on it to check the timing . It was a 7100 p pump.He install and no start. He pulled engine because it was easy and brought to me. We check and by pulling the injectors and i connected one to the # 1 fuel line and as we turn it over it was injecting fuel on the bottom of the stroke. I told him to pull and take back and to tell the same man that checked the pump timing to call. He never did call but told my brother that the tone wheel did slip. That was hard for them to exsplain why he had it in there 2 times and never checked the timing to the cpl. That is the first thing that should have been done.

Cool you been there to!

We had our local pump guy come over and bring his plunger tool over and he reset it with that after we got it to the shop it was in a remote location at the time and had very little for toolage, He said i was off by only 2 degrees not bad for a shot in the dark! i was kind a strutin about over that one!Ya get lucky some times so ya got to make hay while the sun shines!To bad it don't happen more often.

Glad Tony Came back At the garage!They would hav lost a true talent had he stayed away

[theakerstwo]

Glad Tony Came back At the garage!They would hav lost a true talent had he stayed away.

Yes you are right that guy knows cat. We have a cat rep. here like that that knows the data on cats but only learned it from the manual instead of working but is a good scourse for info that is not in print but makes good sense when he gets you to think. That some times is what people need is just think about it some. Talking about timing pumps i have a snapon timing light and a clamp on fuel line moduel that will work on any diesel injector fuel line that i like to use on engines. I use it here at the house on cat engines to check the advance. I have checked it on a good timed advace using the cat tool group and then this light and the best i can tell it is 2 degrees slow slow i try to remember that and go with that. never have used it on a mack but have on cat alot. glenn

[bulldoggin']

I've seen the fuel pumps go weak and do what his was doing.