MP8 injector cups

[1965]

What year mack would have the stainless steel injector cups in them from the factory? Thanks

[Macktech689]

Stainless cups were introduced in 2010, There are kits available to upgrade engines back to 2007.

[turckster]

Stainless cups were introduced in 2010, There are kits available to upgrade engines back to 2007.

There are some engines that still had copper cups that were 2010 model engines. I've only seen a few though.

[1965]

Thanks; can you tell by vin if it came with the stainless cups; might try & buy a truck & I would want to buy one that I didn't have to worry bout cup issues

[Macktech689]

Post the VIN and I'll see what I can find.

[1965]

I am just shopping right now; have not seen very many 10's with what I want mostly been seeing 11s & 12's;

[bbigrig]

I had stainless installed in 2 of my 08's and had a couple fail a few years later. Don't think they were installed right on those ones. One of my 2013's had the stainless cups replaced at 36,000kms. It's hit and miss. It's a couple of grand to have them done, buy the truck and budget it into the purchase price. While your guy is in there he can check for fretted/cracked injector tips. Had a few of those on our 08-09 CXU's with MP8's.

[Dieselwrenches]

11's and 12's will definitely have conical cups. Plus will have less regen issues as well.

[Marcel67]

Volvo had big issues with there D13 injector cups on there 2011 2012 models with 300 k miles. I bought 5 used 2012 all had to have the injector cups replaced. What a nightmare!

[bbigrig]

Both engines are made in Hagerstown. If it's a Volvo problem, it's a Mack problem.

[Dieselwrenches]

The biggest problem with injector cups are when they are improperly installed during a replacement and do not last.

[Kingdirt]

bbigrig,

I have many questions about cracked injector tips. I am beginning to believe my DPF problems are coming from that, since I have replaced almost every element of the DPF system.

I go into passive regen every 70-80 miles like clockwork. Then it goes to manual regen needed, then to urgent, then disspears and runs great for 70 more. It doesnt matter if I pull over for a parked regen, or just drive through it, same results, same cycle.

Been to TEC in vegas, la mirada, eugene oregon, and portland. Been to Transport Equip in Missoula, Tri-State in Tupelo MS. Ive had it in 4 independant shops,also.

Ive cleaned the filter twice, replaced dpf seals 3 times. 2 new clamps. cleaned 7th injector, then replaced 7th injector. Replaced flex pipe. Replaced all temp sensors on dpf. replaced diff pressure sensor. Replaced one sensor on aftertreatment fuel pressure valve, then told I should have done the whole thing, so thats new too. EGR diff pressure sensor removed and cleaned.

Over 10,000$ in two months.Ironically, only about 3000$ in parts, labor is whats killing me. Almost every shop ive been into has thrown a new part on it, ran 3 or 4 service regens until they get the numbers looking good, and taken my money. 80 miles down the road Im back in regen.

Smoke is getting worse, its whitish blue. Not a true indicator of excessive fuel, but the way the truck acts is like that filter is getting Soaked, to the point of plugged while regening, until I get to that 3rd stage,.. The URGENT stage, then all that smoke gets forced thru and im clean again. And, Ive also dropped from a steady 7-7.5 mpg to under 6mpg in the last 3 or 4 weeks. Since Transport in Missoula ran 4 back to back regens and had my truck boiling in the sun. At that point they replaced the aftertreatment fuel pressure sensor. I replaced the entire valve a couple days later.

After 2 regens, with PTT on it, im showing under 10% soot rate. But when i first hook to it, it usually reads 144%. Unfortunately, Im getting better at reading PTT than alot of the Techs ive had work on it. They seem to like to just push that button (service regen)and walk away. None have ever actually stayed there and "monitored" anything.

Any symptoms sound familiar? Any help would be greatly appreciated,... Im about to default my loan and lose this truck. I cant run like this, and these shops have exhausted all of my reserves with "uneduacated guesses".

Wow, sorry. Maybe I should have started my own thread!

[Kingdirt]

I should say, after reading my post, I meant no offense to any Mack/Volvo Tech's. I know there are good ones out there, I just seem to have had a very unlucky couple of months, and my frustration level is through the roof.

[Refined Trucker]

Kingdirt you could have done a complete delete of all that EPA crap and spent less money. Then would have a much more efficient and dependable truck. I can't believe more people aren't doing this. I know of several that have done Cummins and had great results. There are now plenty out there that can do Mack.

[wheeler73]

Kingdirt which 7th injector do you have? Is it the big one with wires to it or just the one with only 1 line to it. If it is the big one there should hopefully be 2 lines to it as one is air purge. If not it can be installed. Without air purge the 7th injector gets clogged and will not due a proper regen and cause the issue you have. Also if it does have air purge or the small 7th injector there can be an issue with the air purge system that will cause the 7th injector to clog. I have seen that several times.

[Kingdirt]

Refined,..In retrospect, i wish I would have went that route from the git go. But believe me, If I knew then what I know now. Ive just wanted it fixed, and everytime I stop, and put it in the shop I fall farther behind. I do run California alot, So I am hesitant to delete it, but at this point, Yes, I could have saved myself, alot of headaches.

My 7th injector? I dont "think" it has a purge. 2 coolant lines, and an electrical wire going to, plus the fuel. I was in a Watkins shop in LA, and the mechanics pulled it and cleaned in August. They ran a test when they reinstalled it with PTT and it passed. Then TEC in Vegas told me it was bad a couple days later and replaced it. It definitely looks like a different type, like they put an upgraded one on?

Like I said , Ive only had the truck a couple months, but that first injector had been written on 08/14 So, it wasnt even a year old. I was pretty "heated" about it, because they just did it without even talking to me. I went into regen at Primm, and pulled over and called them. They told me to bring it back and they would "start from scratch" but Ive had it with them. Never again will I go to these places that treat me like im an idiot. Or better yet, They treat me like im a fleet truck, and they can just throw parts at my truck without asking me if I can even pay for it first! LOL

'

[Kingdirt]

I should note, The smoke is white, with a blueish tint. And its thick,.. I watch it fall in my rearview like rain on the pavement. I DO monitor my coolant and oil a couple times a day, and there are no losses or gains. NO contamination that I can detect in either. Im at my wits end, but I have 3 things in the back of my mind.

First, I havent done the EGR, so maybe that needs replaced, or removed and cleaned?

Second, I had it down in Tupelo MS, and those guys were convinced it was exhast related. They replaced my flex pipe, but I believe there is a leak between the injecor housing piece, and the piece thats wrapped in heat tape. I also believe the last time I had the filter removed, they didnt get it set very well where the 4" comes into the top of the DPF system. I can see some soot lines up there. SO, im gonna go down the exhaust and replace all seals and maybe some clamps from the Injector to the DPF system. Going thru the exhaust would be a cheap and easy next move, But also, these regens are SO regular and calculated, I just cant believe its pressure related.

And last,Injectors pushing too much fuel? Like a cracked tip? Thats kinda why I originally posted here, was hoping BBigRig could tell me what his did when he had that happen.

[bbigrig]

I've had a few of my 08's start showing signs of needing to regen often. With that you could smell a rich diesel burn from t exhaust on an engine with 600,000 miles or less. With those issues present we pulled the injectors t find 1 or 2 fetted(cracked) tips. With all of your symptoms and funky readings there is something else going on. But I've seen where you can have injector issues and other sensor issues etc at the same time.

[bbigrig]

Looking at the DPF from a simple point of view, it's purpose is to trap soot, regen it into an ash and pack it away until it is full and needs to be cleaned or replaced new. If your dpf is actually filling up fast and the truck legitimately needs to burn that soot and pack it away (with sensors working properly etc) then you may have an issue of over fueling or a lack of air supply etc, etc. If it's sooting up, go back to your basics of why it's running rich. Our trucks regens happened more frequently when injector issues arose at the same time.

[Kingdirt]

I tend to agree bbigrig. Even if it wasnt properly regening that stuff out, I think just the fact that it is starting on a passive regen every 80 miles or so indicates a fueling or air problem. I got a wild hair this morning during my pretrip and pulled the intake to the turbo off, just to look for oil or coolant, any signs there, and nothing. Its clean as a whistle. Im seriously considering the EGR, although it seems like if that thing was stuck, or loaded up with soot and getting a bad sensor reading, I would have seen some sort of EGR code by now. The only code I ever get is soot level. But like I stated,.. Ive had this filter cleaned twice,..it reads great. After a regen, or service regen, it reads normally.

The MOST frustrating part of this is, I drove the truck for a month, after buying it, with no issues, and ONE call for a parked regen. In the second month (end of June) they increased, maybe one a week- 10 days. Mid july, I got 2 regen lights in the same week, and I immediately figured I had better have it cleaned, since I dont know when the last time it was done. It has been in constant regen ever since.

Worst mistake I ever made, was trying to do a little PM. I would gladly go back to 2 parked regens a week. Of course, what ever has gone out, was probably going out anyway, and im sure I was on the brink of this the whole time.

[Kingdirt]

Wait! thats not the MOST frustrating thing.. I did pay cash for a 2 year/ 200,000 mile 3rd party warranty, too. So far, nothing has been covered,. Engine, Transmission, Turbo, and differentials only. NO DPF or exhaust coverage at all. What a NOOB I am, I probably deserve this.....

[Kingdirt]

Terrible day, I can barely get down the road. Im just trying to limp home up the 5. Constant regen's, and the system wont clean itself, Ive pulled over for 3 parked regens, and the light just comes back on as soon as Im on the road.

2 new codes today though

MID 128 PSID 47 FMI 12

Aftertreatment Hydrocarbon doser clogged/ or DPF catalyst clogged/ damaged.

AND

MID 128 PPID 326

High Soot level

I dont have a doser, so the catalyst must be the problem, but like Ive said.. IT, and the filter have been cleaned twice in the last 2 months. So much white smoke today I got hit up on the Radio and told my trailer was on fire.

[Macktech689]

The doser fault refers to your 7th injector, FMI 12 will set when the DPF pre-filter temperature does not get hot enough for regeneration to take place. Since your injector is new I would suspect the catalyst is plugged, that can be caused by any engine issue, turbo, EGR system, injectors etc. If they are only cleaning the filter and not the catalyst your problem will not go away. I will always do a test of engine smoke with the DPF removed to see if there is excess smoke coming out by snapping the throttle open always a good indication of engine problems, one time the issue was a damaged camshaft. Good luck!

[Kingdirt]

Thanks for the info Macktech. I have spent the whole day tearing it apart. So far, I have a couple suspects. The wrapped pipe behind the 7th injector IS in fact rusted thru. Im headed to Portland tomorrow for a new one. I dont know much about the EGR cooler, but I did pull the hose off of the outlet end, and it dumped soot on the ground. It seems packed full. Havent gotten back to the EGR yet.

Also pulled the Filter assembly all apart again. Catalyst and Filter look clean as could be, and as white as a new one. Even though this is a DPF code, and initially seemed the issue, Its obvious the system is cleaning itself fine. Pressure issues and leaks, and hopefully maybe EGR system needs a good cleaning? Hopefully NOT anything more, like fuel injector issues.

This whole time, it has never sputtered or hard started, or even run rough, So im hopeing An In Depth and thorough cleaning andtightening, buttoning up exhaust leaks is gonna do it. I could probably take my hand and crush that second pipe.

I wanna thank everyone for the insight, Ill keep you posted as to how this turns out...

[Challenger]

Check your Diff pressure sensor lines for being clogged too. The black sensor on the DPF with the 2 hoses going to the metal lines. Check and make sure the metal lines aren't clogged. Might as well clean those with everything else.