B-73 Restoration

[theakerstwo]

What breaks those liners at the seal grooves is the pistons have scored to the liners.I have seen it hunreds of times.When it is built back make sure and have the rods checked for being strait.The engine has been very hot at some time and run under load to do this.Be carefull with the fuel lines to the injectors because they were hard to find 20 years ago.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Ya' know...

Sucks to have to dig into it.  But, once he's finished, the engine will be worthy of the rest of the truck.

[mattb73lt]

It's out, let the tear down begin!! Came out a lot easier than it went in. In the shop and under cover which will be good. I'm hoping to have a better idea by weeks end to see the extent of further damage. I've had a few people reach out to me offering 220 parts that they have to help out, which is phenomenal. Not the direction I had planned on going at this point. I should be confident of the engine going forward, as I plan on going far and wide with the truck in the future. Looking back, I think I would go through this type (wet sleeve) of engine and automatically put a sleeve kit in it before using it due to the time it sat.

[Mark T]

I'm hoping all it really needs is some new cylinder kits ( as  far as damaged parts go )  Any luck the rest will respond to new bearings and bushings and such.  Couple numbers (603) 642-8483 (Mahoney's)  I don't even know if they're still around.  (603) 496-8802.  I think this guy was  a Jones (?)    Going back a few years they had connections to older Cummins parts. Like I said, I'm not even sure if either are still around.

[mattb73lt]

Mahoney's is still around. They were VERY helpful when I was adding the Jake to the engine, by loaning me some fixtures to grind the rocker arms. Thank you for those numbers, They may come in handy as I move forward. I was in contact with the local Cummins shop in Rocky Hill, CT. The person I spoke to was very helpful and optimistic about putting a rebuild kit together, if needed.

 

 

 

[Mark T]

That's good news.  There's not a real lot to those engines, but if it's not available it may as well be a Rolls Royce Merlin 

I still think it had some rot from sitting.  I remember the video, it sounded fine.

[mattb73lt]

It was running great and sounded amazing on the road. Really good oil pressures and temps...until it failed. I think time was my biggest enemy. I was told it was a fairly fresh rebuilt when I bought it, but then it sat 20+ plus years in my shop before I had it running. Even if there was only a little corrosion on the liners it doesn't take much moisture to keep it going, just even a little bit. I pickled it, but I didn't fill the water jacket with anything. Maybe if I had filled and drained the water jacket with oil just in case. Tear down will show it there any corrosion in there.

[1961H67]

Im glad ( under the circumstances) that you got it in the shop before the weather gets messy. I have a 220 parts manual if you need it , I’ll send it up , the part numbers are old but Cummins can still change them over. 

[Red Horse]

Hang in there Matt-after all your fine work I'm sure this will seem like its all downhill.

[mattb73lt]

Ok, breathing a little easier. I've got it opened up and all the pistons and rods are out. It looks like all the damage was contained to #6, to the sleeve and piston. No spun bearings on the journals. I'll have to wait on the mains for a bit, but I think they're OK. The #6 piston took a beating, with most of the damage directed to the skirt and oil ring area. I'm waiting on a sleeve puller from a friend to get all the sleeves out. Lot's of scoring to the skirt and bore, all the others seem normal.  The #6 bore, below where the sleeve broke off, only seems to have a few small burrs on it lower edge. The rotating internals and block area don't seem to have any scarring from the sleeve pieces. My thoughts now are, to check all the dimensions, get it cleaned up, new bearings, sleeves and pistons and back together. I'll have all the rods checked while they're out and overhaul the injectors and pump. So, I believe from what I'm seeing the block and crank have survived.

[Joey Mack]

I have been watching this thread for a while...  I understand where you are at, at this point, and I'm happy for you..  🍻

[Mark T]

Stupid as it sounds, looks like you got lucky.  Good idea about the injectors, be nice to see if #6 was puke'n fuel and washed it down to get the piston starting to seize .   Seems it should have smoked if that was the case though.....and it sounded good in the video .  Something made it happen , that picture looks like exactly what Glen mentioned earlier.

[mattb73lt]

Yeah, I’m in agreement with Glenn, too. I did have wet fuel on top of 3 piston heads, 6 being one of them when the heads came off. I barely ran it when I turned it around in the driveway. Everything was covered in oil as it came apart. I’m hoping to see some other kind of evidence to the cause when the sleeves come out. #1 piston looks brand new with almost no wear seen on it.

[1961H67]

I had a driver call me years ago, 230 Cummins, said it ran hot,, and was knocking,, shut it off and it wouldn’t start back ( locked up) I drove about 30 minutes to him ,, it started up when it cooled , no knock, sounded ok , drove it back to shop and pulled the pan and you could see liner scoring on one cylinder, probably would have did what yours did if it had ran much more, that liner is not that thick in the o ring groves, It’s hard to tell if it was overheated before you got, I think you got some good advice from the other guys , and good call on your part to go through the injectors  . You won’t have to worry about it when you head out on a long road trip. 

[mowerman]

Oh looking good for you thanks for keeping us informed glad it’s not a total loss sounds like you’re well on your way … Bob

[Mean Green]

Thats good it was contained to only one cyl by the amount of parts you had in the bottom of the pan I thought it would be way worse hope you can find everything you need to get it going again

[doubleclutchinweasel]

It's like I said before.  Once you go through that engine, it will be as good as the rest of that ride.  I'm glad it wasn't worse.  I look forward to seeing it back together.

[mattb73lt]

One of theses things is not like the others...... They're out and still no visible damage to the block. We'll see about that as I clean it up and have someone look at it. If I was a betting man, I would say the main cause of the failure was poor workmanship and improper installation of the sleeves. While things were a little crusty on the inside, I found no major pitting on the sleeves. But, #4 & #5 and probably #6(too much is missing to be sure) had lower seals the were damaged, split and broken. What I think happened, was that as I was driving it they began to leak dumping the coolant into the pan. It then began to overheat #6 and score and break the sleeve. The temperature sender is way up in the thermostat housing and not in the block, once it runs dry it's not going to read an overheat internally. 

[theakerstwo]

It looks to me like it may have had some rolled liner seals when they were installed.

[Mark T]

One thing's for sure, it wasn't going far without some problem in that general area. #1 is interesting. Makes me wonder if it was indeed overheated at some point and #1 tried doing that and someone threw a cylinder kit in it figuring it would live.  Time to start measuring after a good cleaning.  Don't forget, the cam is everything in ways. If it or the followers are worn, lots of times that can be adjusted out in the overhead. Then it's out of time and may be allowing too much fuel to enter the injector (especially if it has good rail pressure)  and that's not good for a couple reasons.  Looking at stuff is like an archeological dig, but the micrometer will tell the story.

[Joey Mack]

An old timer told me something many years ago.....   "The Metal Don't Lie !"  I believe he will do a great job getting this one running good again..   jojo

[theakerstwo]

1 hour ago, theakerstwo said:

It looks to me like it may have had some rolled liner seals when they were installed.

For those that dont know what a rolled liner seal does, it makes the liner bore smaller at that point and when the engine runs hot for some reason the piston will score.

[1961H67]

Back in the day Cummins made a “Plug “ that we would drop in the liners to check for a rolled o ring when we were rebuilding,  I was in my 20s and I would question how that rubber o ring would distort a steel liner . The older guys would tell me if that plug hit a tight spot,, pull that liner back out and you will find a rolled o ring . 

[Mean Green]

Glenn is right I saw a guy rebuild an international engine and bout a half hour of running seized a piston rip it down fix it nother half hours seized a nother one had to pull them all out and replace all 6 when he installed the seals he rolled them into the groves and didn't take a screwdriver and run it around them to un roll them but those also look in terrible shape

[1961H67]

Yep brings back many memories, I had several good teachers on the old Cummins, running around those o rings with your pocket screwdriver was a must.