B-73 Restoration

[mechohaulic]

13 hours ago, mattb73lt said:

I did not have a good week with this engine last week. After getting the crank cleaned up they way I wanted it I was convinced the shop I went to did not do any polishing to it. Close inspection revealed that the journals appeared to be in the same condition as when I dropped it off. I was able to get Rocky to come to the shop last Wednesday to look it over with me. We remeasured every journal in four spots and all were within .0008" to .0003" of the undercut it had been given during its last rebuild and well within tolerances for heavy polishing. The week prior I contacted a guy I worked for in high school and sent him pictures of areas I had concern with.  He was of the same opinion as Rocky, that it hadn't been polished. Rocky wasn't happy with any of this either and this was from a shop he'd recommended. He told me he felt bad about sending me there and wasn't comfortable putting this crank into the engine. I had my reservations of this particular shop and voiced them to Rocky before anything left my shop. About the time I contacted my old boss I was shopping for another place to go to. I received several recommendations. I did talk to Tom from Mahoney & Son in NH that week, too. He strongly recommended the shop they go to in Malden, MA. So last Thursday I loaded up the B42 with both crankshafts and hit the road early to make my way through Boston to Malden. Friday, I went to the shop in Hamden and removed the two sets of heads and parts I had there and brought them to Malden as well. The conversation at that shop was not pleasant, but I was professional and adamant that I was through doing business there. As I was leaving the owner did hand me back $1K in cash for the work he didn't complete. Luckily, he hadn't assembled the new parts into the heads before I removed them.

So some set backs and time lost at this shop, but I want the work I'm paying for done right. I don't want to have to do this again. I should've gone with my gut instinct and stayed away from this shop. It is getting so hard to find a reputable shop nowadays in my area. The new shop is a Cummins and Perkins Certified shop and the owner took me on a tour when I arrived. It's also about a two hour ride from me. Driving the B42 through Boston on I90 was a trip and a half. The WAZE app on my phone was my navigator there and extremely helpful. On the way back I stopped in Framingham to have lunch with my brother. That rarely happens due to our jobs and the last time we did, I was still a Trooper.. He's a civil engineer for JF White Construction and has done a lot of bridge, tunnel and rail work in his career around Boston. He was the project engineer on the Bunker Hill cable-stay bridge during it's construction. I had to break his balls that I was lucky to cross it in the Mack without it crashing down. Still moving forward after this hiccup.

If Mr.  Rockwell suggested the place they "must have been good once" like many operations today ; place is still there , personal inside changed along with attitudes and interest. times change and none of the changes seem for the better anymore. 

[mattb73lt]

Just now, mechohaulic said:

If Mr.  Rockwell suggested the place they "must have been good once" like many operations today ; place is still there , personal inside changed along with attitudes and interest. times change and none of the changes seem for the better anymore. 

I agree. The place was renowned in years past and had an awesome reputation. It has dwindled down to a one man show, with not much of a work ethic. It's sad because with a little motivation he could have a great shop. I knew and it still bit me. Even Rocky didn't have much to say, other than agree with me going elsewhere. This has been a big setback time-wise, but should be right back on track by the end of April.

[Frank Y]

Simply put, hearing this is extremely frustrating. I've been hearing and seeing this in my area too much anymore. Fortunately the owner "made good" for the work that wasn't done. But unfortunately it's the sloppy work that was done that you still need to pay for, and get done again. Good luck with the next, and hopefully more competent shop.

[67RModel]

15 hours ago, mattb73lt said:

As I was leaving the owner did hand me back $1K in cash for the work he didn't complete. Luckily, he hadn't assembled the new parts into the heads before I removed them.

I'm confused as to what's going on here. Did you prepay for all the machine work  and he was refunding $1000 worth of head assembly he did not yet complete? Or was he admitting to not polishing the crankshaft and refunding $1000 for what he charged you for "polishing the crank"? Either way it doesn't matter, but I guess I'm just curious. If its the latter he basically admitted he didn't polish it. 

[mattb73lt]

I basically paid him for the work on the block and the parts for the heads he purchased. He did, in a roundabout way, admit to several things I called him out on. I’m done with him. On to another shop and getting this done.

[mattb73lt]

On a better note, other parts have gone really well. My friend the fabricator rebuilt both lifting frames for the body. He ended up replacing about 90% of this lower frame and added the pins and bushings I turned for him. His welding is impressive!!

[Vladislav]

Sorry to hear about the negative experience with the crank polishing. Unfortunately no one is guaranteed 100% from getting in a such situation. And those are lucky who have will and power enough to pass through and continue reaching the target. When we deal with a hobby it's an adventure by its origin. Or a game. Much worse when similar things concern job or business and especially health.

I once had bad experience with a shop boring new sleeves for Lanova engine block. I also had to go to another place. Than a few months later I found out I made a good thing I didn't close the door too loud leaving them. The matter was they didn't complete (atually didn't do at all) the job explaining my custom-cast liners were too hard for their cutting tools. At the same time they asked me to pay nearly 1/4 of the full job cost. I said I wasn't lucky doing that but paid. And later on when I had to look for a place to provide stitching repair for a stress crack in a cylinder head I found out the only place which could do the job was those folks. So I had to come back, they well recognized me and did the repair with full respect and quality.   

P.S. The weld seams are a cat's meau as one of our members used to say

[Mark T]

A true machinist is a dying breed . Most places only want to do CNC stuff and most parts anymore just get thrown away and replaced by something else.  Polishing a big crank shaft like that ?  Not a ten minute job. Not many guys will get involved (more than likely a guy named Matt will end up doing it)  If it miced out ok, polish it and use tri metal bearings. (most likely all that's available for that application) Then you get to go through the whole cleaning ordeal again.  Don't let some guy trying to sell something talk you into aluminum bearings. All the younger guys think they're all the rage. 

[Joey Mack]

It seems to be the case, MarkT.. I have a machine shop here. one of only 2 within an hour from me.. I had some connecting rods re-bushed for a John Deere 3179 I was building..  I brought them home, and when I was ready to install them, I found the bushings werent fitted to the new wrist pin that I put in the box with them.  If I had known that was how it would have been done, I would of just pressed them myself..  I did fit them myself.  I even had to ream out the oil hole in the bushing because they were only half way open. 

I know you will build a sweet running engine..  Jojo

[blackdog2]

E & G in Wallingford has been doing my Work for year's  line bore , head's ? no problem's  ? And Custom precision been doing my work also what I can't do because of time  tank's  ?

 

[Mark T]

My guy here is pretty good. He's also older and isn't able to do as much as fast and all that good stuff.  The Mack dealer that was in the area that did the heads rods and injection components ....all gone.   I guess it's only going to get worse as time goes on.  

[mattb73lt]

Another issue was sending out the injectors and fuel pump for testing and overhaul. Started off with Metro Fuel Injection, they're located in Essex, CT and Agawam, MA and have several other shops in New England. At first they said they could do them, but after three weeks said they no longer had the capability to do NH220 injectors or pumps. More research and I located Premco Diesel Performance in Lampasas, TX. Found them on Facebook, on the Cummins Old Gold page. Spoke to the owner, Warren, who was very helpful. He said send them as he does the old flange type injectors himself. He called Monday to tell me what he found, all kinds of mismatched parts in the injectors, wrong spray pattern nozzles and the pump needed work and he gave it a few needed updates. They're done, payed for and enroute back to me, now. So, another item checked off the To Do list.

[Mark T]

Wait until you have this engine running.  You're going to be surprised at how smooth and quiet the engine is ( not the exhaust ) .  

[1961H67]

Sorry to hear about the trouble with the crankshaft,, I went through the same issue with a 3406 , Its the same EVERYWHERE,,I’ve gotten myself in the same situation that Mr Rockwell did, I have been asked about a Machine shop that once was top notch and the older guys have sold out and the quality is not as good. It’s a Dying trade ! I’m glad you found a good shop. ( My wife wasn’t happy about driving through Boston in a Honda after our visit with you, I’ll tell her you made it in a B Model) 

[skydawg]

I guess polishing journals is more involved than mounting the crank in a lathe and hitting them with emery paper?

[mattb73lt]

Much more. I was just doing a general clean up of the crank and passages. When you polish, you actually remove material, but much finer than grinding a crank. Depending on wear and the manufacturer's tolerances you can remove up to a few thousands of an inch, before you'd need to re-cut it to the next size under.

[Vladislav]

You would barely remove a few ten thousands of an inch polishing camshaft even with sand paper. I had experience "correcting" shape of journals of Mack shaft after "imperfect" grinding. It's a long story to tell right now. The matter is I needed to remove nearly 0.01mm at two opposit sides of a journal. Could not do anything notable with 220 (or so) grid paper. Had to use a diamond file and worked one journal for nearly 30 minutes one side. Than another than smoothing the scratches down with multiple papers lowering the grid. Ended with 800 or 1000 and the surface was a mirror. Sure all the job was well inspected by microgage. I could easily see 0.005mm (0,0002 inch). 

Those journals are damn hard, heat treated.

[mowerman]

Definitely lost art… but I think these days most machine shops are just knocking out quick repairs on people movers  and most times they don’t expect too many fussy older hands to show up looking for overly outstanding results. Or used to handling such cases… just repair it quick n cheap.. Bob

[mechohaulic]

yrs back I was honored to know an  elder gent who was a machinist. worked full time at major machine shop ; had section of his garage set up with three-phase. (not common in residential area ). he was able to purchase large lathes etc from company.  never carried a tape measure  instead had  micrometers at all times. watched him make pins/ bushings allowing only enough tolerance for thickness of grease!!  tattoo on his arm group of numbers ; he never could talk about them :: He survived the concentration camp . such a talented self learned Man. 

[mattb73lt]

It definitely is a dying industry and art. The industry because modern engines last so long. When I was younger, getting 100K miles out of an engine before it needed to be rebuilt was a lot. Now, engines go 200-300K+ without needing anything. The art, because people with the knowledge to do such work aren't being taught anymore. When I was about to go to high school, I didn't want to go to my hometown one for various reasons. My two options were a college preparatory school or technical school. Not being a very studious kid, but good with my hands, the choice was easy. I chose a state technical high school. To get in, you had to take an entrance exam. A few years later they did away with the exam and would take anyone. My freshman year I chose Machine, Tool & Die as my major. I excelled at it and upon graduation went on to technical college and other endeavors. The machine trade at that school was robust and we had three well versed instructors. My class was full, but the following classes were smaller each year. In the mid-2000's the school closed. The only one in the state system to do so. The school was closed for several years, then after being restructured, reopened. One of the shops no longer offered, Machine, Tool & Die. The rows of lathes, milling machines, precision grinders, NC & CNC machines, EDM machines all gone. The automotive machine shop I worked at in that time ran six days a week. We had four guys rebuilding engines, a counterman and a older guy that had his own boring machine that bored blocks. The owner, who I still know and deal with, bounced between to counter and shop. Then me running parts, rebuilding cylinder heads and anything they needed. The work in that shop slowly dried up and the owner retired after closing the shop. I'm glad I have the skills my instructors gave me and a shop in my barn that I can make the things in need.    

[1961H67]

Great story,, I have often wondered how you got the knowledge to use the machines you have in your shop. There is a guy locally here in his late 50s that has a machine shop, I’ll get him to make a pin or press a bushing , surface a flywheel from time to time, he has a ton on lathes and equipment, he can’t find any one that wants to learn the trade, I’m sure when he retires it will be closed down. 

[The Rubber Duck 006]

Yes Sir that's how I was able to get my CDL. I went to a Vocational trade school here in Ohio my Junior and senior year of school. Instead of paying almost 6,000 dollars to go to their Driving School I only had to pay about 95 bucks for a Drug test to be able to use the school's truck and also paid for my test. I had to take er twice and the school paid for the first test. I took Construction Equipment Operations and learned how to efficiently run alot of equipment and Drive truck. Wouldn't change it for Nothing. Infact sometimes I wish I could go back to them days lol. 

[mattb73lt]

More good news. My injectors and PT pump arrived from Premco Diesel Perfomance of Lampasas, TX on Thursday, after being overhauled. I had taken them to Metro Diesel in Essex, CT. They said the could do them, but three weeks later called and said the couldn't. Picked them back up and shipped them to Premco. They went through the injectors and found mismatched parts and several nozzles with the wrong spray patterns. The pump needed some work and also received some upgrades that it needed. I'm glad I sent them out. While the engine ran very well and strong, they could have caused problems down the road in the new engine. They were very easy to deal with and the owner, Warren, does the flange type injectors himself. It's becoming harder to find a shop that can still do flange type injectors, for all the same reasons we were just discussing. Now, to build an engine up so I have somewhere to install them!

[mechohaulic]

Sharpe looking profile picture. two trucks red -green ; so different yet so much the same .

[HarryS]

Sounds like things worked out for the better.