RowdyRebel Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I absolutely HATE trying to figure out what I want to do...which direction to go with a project. Take the Suburban transmission swap, for instance. I THOUGHT I had it all figured out...until I tried talking to a few people who SHOULD know what they are talking about. Stopped by the local Chevy dealer...useless as a screen door on a submarine except for the fact that he directed me about a mile up the road to a local "speed shop". So I cruise in there to make sure the GM Supermatic 4L85E I'm getting ready to order will bolt up to the Gen 1 Chevy 350 as well as the transfer case, and also to see what the stock power curve for a 1990 TBI 350 looks like to help make up my mind between the Monster Transmission 1750 stall converter or the 1800-2000 stall converter. He recommended the 1800-2000 to help get it going when I've got a trailer with a couple horses in it. So I get home and call up Monster Transmission to place my order and this fast talking filly has my head spinning. Now either she really knows what she's talking about or trying really hard with a damn good computer system looking things up pretty quick. I'm thinking she was trying to sell me one of their "rebuilt" 4L80E transmissions instead of the "new" 4L85E I had found elsewhere, saying I'd have to make sure it was built like a 2wd transmission with a reluctor ring on the output shaft for the computer controller or it wouldn't shift...but I said I needed the 4wd version so my t-case would bolt up. Turns out they sell the same computer controller (US Shift) I was going to get...except they only sell the Quick 1 controller with the harness for $1100, where I can get the upgraded Quick 4 controller, wiring harness, split loom wire protector, and a pin removal tool to allow installation through a smaller hole ALL for $757 direct from US Shift. She was also saying there is a difference in the 4L80 vs 4L85 case...something about flexplate angle that the 4L80 would bolt up to a Gen 1 350 where the 4L85 was for the LS motor...but the GM Performance catalog states pretty clearly that p/n 19300175 bolts directly to a Gen 1 small block and all big blocks. There is an adapter available for LS motors...but it SHOULD bolt up to what I've got just fine. A call to the Chevy dealer up in Red Bud (listed as a GM Performance authorized dealer) confirmed what I THOUGHT I was looking at, even though it conflicts with what the girl @ Monster Transmission said. I sent an email to US Shift to see what they have to say about the reluctor ring debacle and all of that, so we'll see. For S&G, I looked at pricing for Monster's "rebuilt" 4L80 transmissions. The "New" Supermatic can be had for $2750 and is rated for 685 ft lbs. The "Rebuilt" options are 500 ft lb for $2198 or 700 ft lb for $2524. In other words, it could save a few pennies buying rebuilt...but I'm still leaning towards new just because if I'm doing a job, I want to do it right the first time...and I usually prefer to just buy new if the price is comparable. Anyway, I had THOUGHT I had it all figured out...now I'm trying to figure out who's telling the truth and who's blowing smoke...possibly trying to "upsell" me something I was planning to buy just not through them. I hate decisions where there may not be any difference...or there could be a HUGE difference...and you don't know who to believe. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtymilkman Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 If there is a good tranny shop in your area you'd be better off rebuilding the 700r4, unless you wanted to go to a six speed auto. There are guys that will make that 700 stronger and shift as good as any new ones. Plus there is a ton of different torque converter setups and stallers and you wont need a controller. There is a guy up here that builds them for race cars and hot rods and he'll set you up with lockup torque converters with stall and everything else you could want. If you have a local dragstrip go there and visit with the guys. The racers will know the places to go to for tranny work. Any "speedshop" up here is usually a rip off and its always inexperienced guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurstscrambler Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Rowdy, I m not really familiar with newer gm overdrives, but I have owned a 1990 blazer and installed a monster 700r4, it was not right from day one. After banging my head against the wall for a month or two, I brought it to a reputable local shop and the guy there told me it was a pos. He rebuilt it and it was great, I dont know if he was just trying to justify the expese of the rebuild, but I wouldnt underestimate the value of having the ability to go talk to the guy who built the trans in person. Personally I would only purchase the brand new trans, or have one rebuilt locally. I installed a bowtie overdrive 200-4r in another vehical and it was great though, just a risk that I wouldnt take again personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 I went with the GM Supermatic 4L85E...brand new. Controller guy @ US Shift says that since I've got an electronic VSS on the t-case, I can run the controller off that if the transmission doesn't have the reluctor wheel at the rear and it'll be just fine. So, as soon as it gets to be between 9 & 5 eastern time, I'll be placing that order too....which just leaves the torque converter. In talking with various "support" people and in my research online, it looks as though that Monster Transmission filly was thinking about the LS motors and their short crankshafts with dished flex plates needing spacers to run the flat flexplate with the 11.5" bolt pattern for a 4L80 torque converter. The Gen 1 block has the long crankshaft, so no spacer is needed to run the necessary flexplate. There is a GM Performance adapter kit for LS 1 motors, complete with the longer bolts needed due to the spacer as well as the lower dust cover (which oddly enough is discontinued for the Gen 1/big block that the transmission "directly" bolts to). I suppose I'll have to check some junk yards to pull one of those off a wreck if I decide to make it look "complete" under the truck. Anyway, I'm convinced everything should work with this set-up and that she should stick to more womanly things like cooking, cleaning, and laundry and leave the wrenching and mechanical tech advising to the menfolk.The most difficult part about this "upgrade" appears to be the exhaust. When I ran that last year, I had to go around the transfer case to get to the Y-pipe because of the long tube headers, front drive shaft, and everything else going on. I MAY have to rework the right side to clear once again after the new transmission is up in there and I see how tight it really is...but right now it's looking pretty good that I'll be cutting and welding on that to make it work again. At this point, I'm almost debating buying the shorty headers that would bolt up to the OEM exhaust, getting another Y-pipe, and just discarding all of the work I did to make it work last fall. Might be easier...but then again, what would be the fun in taking the "easy" way out? Hell, anything's possible when you've got a sawzall and a welder.The guy who was the best man at my wedding thinks I'm nuts....and maybe he's right. When I'm done, I'll have a truck that I probably couldn't get 1/4 of what I've got in it if I tried selling it....and I probably could have used that money to buy a Suburban that's 15 years newer that would've already had the overdrive transmission in it and didn't need all of this work...but it wouldn't have been NEARLY as cool. Besides, that sounds too much like a simple solution, and in the end I'd have a vehicle that looks just like everybody else's. I don't want to walk out of the store and see a half dozen or more vehicles EXACTLY LIKE MINE in the parking lot....I kinda like being a 1-of-a-kind. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 If I were swapping out a TH350, then the 700R4 would make sense. I've got a TH400, though. The guy across the highway (shadetree wrench, hobbies include playing crash-em-ups at the fair and mud truck building) swears by the 700R4 as well. I'm inclined to stick with the 32 spline output shaft shared by the TH400 and the 4L80/4L85 so I don't have to also swap the t-case or figure out how to adapt it to the 27 or 30 spline (depending upon the year) output shaft of the 700R4. The transfer case I've got SHOULD just bolt right up to the 4L85E... Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 ...and one more thing before I hit the sack tonight. The bad experience hurstscrambler had w/ monster transmissions along with the phone call I had earlier with them go tme looking....TONS of bad reviews about them online. So, going to spend a few bucks more on a Hughes Performance torque converter from their XTM Tow Master line. Once I get that and the controller ordered, the only thing left to do is wait for it all to show up before I get to start busting knuckles and cursing like a drunken sailor.... Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other dog Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I don't understand any of it- I was looking to get the TH350 in my mud bogger rebuilt. A local guy in Appomattox that everybody said was the best around wanted about $600 to do it- this was in the '90's. I thought that was too expensive, a complete B&M rebuild kit from Summit was around $100, maybe less, then I saw Summit had complete turbo 350 transmissions for 600 and some dollars, pretty much the same price as the guy wanted to rebuild my old one. And the Summit transmission came with a warranty, and was good for up to 400 hp, about what I had.It's like a rotisserie chicken, you can buy a whole chicken already cooked cheaper than buying a whole chicken you have to cook yourself- what's up with that? Quote Producer of poorly photo-chopped pictures since 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 When I first started this project, I didn't know the first thing about automatic transmissions...not even how to check the oil level, let alone how a torque converter works and how to select the proper stall speed. Everything I'd ever owned and everything I ever WANTED to own had a manual transmission in it....simple...pull a plug on the side and stick your finger tip inside...if your finger tip got wet, it was full...and if you were heavy and needed to be higher into the power band before taking off, you just used a little more throttle before letting out the clutch. Been doing a TON of reading here lately, though. Still don't know how all of the internals work with the valving and bands and such, but think I've figured out enough to put together a decent enough combo. It only has a stock under the hood...for now...but if something should happen to that, I want the rest of the driveline to be strong enough to handle anything from a built 350 up to at least a 454. Probably going to keep whatever we put in it spec'd for the idle-to-5000 RPM range so it is driveable, but increase/improve the torque curve for down low grunt and towing capabilities. Hell, this thing has a 14-bolt rear, the big 13" brakes, 4.10 gears, 1-ton rear springs (+2"), 3/4-ton front springs (+2"), riding on LT285/75R16 (33") tires. It's already a beast with the small engine. Wife shouldn't have ANY trouble pulling her horses around with it. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Heat kills an automatic. Make sure to put an additional cooler on it somehow.If the 'burb is a non computer truck, then I would stick with a non computer transmission. Why deal with a controller? The old cable operated versions work fine. With some simple upgrades I'm sure it will handle anything you will throw at it. Again, heat kills, so towing is a killer on them no matter what.The Ford AOD was a POS when it came out. Now they put them in 8 second turbo cars. It has all come a long way. Though I'm with you..........give a third pedal and let ME choose!I'm working on gathering up the last few pieces to put the mazda 5spd in my '89 F150. I hate that AOD!! It's nice to chuck in gear and go, but hate the way they programmed the shifting on it. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 I ordered a B&M supercooler (for vehicles up to 29,200 gcw)...11x11x1.5 w/ 1/2" npt threads in & out to cool things off, and a Derale pan with 4-1/2 quarts of extra capacity. That and the new pan has a magnetic drain plug AND a bung for a temp sensor. So the B&M gauge kit (comes with the gauge, sensor, etc.) will find its way into the blank spot I have in the OEM dash. I ain't no fool...trying to set it up right. The one good thing about electronic controls is that it is easy enough to get a stand-alone controller for it. Splice into a couple wires off the ECM and plug into the transmission. The one I'm getting can have 4 tables loaded up. I figure 1 will have "economy" oriented shift points to maximize fuel efficiency while the wife commutes back and forth to work. Table 2 will be activated with the flip of a switch with towing-oriented shift points. Table 3 we'll probably use for a 4WD-high set-up, and table 4 when we put it in 4WD-low. A mechanical-link is going to be good at one thing, or a general compromise for everything. Electronics let you do some fine-tuning to get the most out of it. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 True. Thus why I HATE my AOD. It shifts way too early, you have no 2nd gear selection on the column. You have to play with it to get it to do what you want. Thus.........I'm putting a stick in it. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Yup. Even the best tuned electronic auto ain't gonna shift when/where/how I want it to all of the time. If I had my way, autos would be outlawed except for cases where a legitimate disability exists...like an amputee with only 1 leg for example. Anyone else, either learn how to drive or take the bus. Always cracks me up reading news articles though about some punk kid attempting to carjack somebody...only to abandon their efforts because they realize they picked a car they can't drive. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog13407 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 the 700r4 has gotta be one of the biggest pain in the ass pieces of shit gm ever put out. kinda like a Mack transmission, theres not two I ever saw that shifted the same. im not sayin there wasnts good ones but there junk ones far outnumber the nice shifting ones ive come across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phase 1 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 True. Thus why I HATE my AOD. It shifts way too early, you have no 2nd gear selection on the column. You have to play with it to get it to do what you want. Thus.........I'm putting a stick in it.And, you should gain some gas mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Swung into Harbor Freight yesterday to take my 30 minute break. Walked out $300 lighter in the pocket. Sure wish I could MAKE money as quick as I could SPEND it. So what did I buy? It's probably what you might call "overkill" for this job, but compared to the other options, it was the only one that would work on other jobs in the future. That and the wheels are big enough they should roll in the driveway. 1 Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 See a ton of uses for that jack. Paul Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david wild Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 should a bought a FORD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Had a Ford / Centurian F-350 four by for towing my trailer and race car. traded it in for a used Suburban 3/4 ton 454 automatic with 11,000 horse trailer package. Ran rings around the Ford. Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtymilkman Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I had an excursion........lets just say I don't know why they ever put their gas engine in them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 ...TCI flexplate came today. Must be the "Back to the Future" edition... Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead204 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 that trans jack will work great for changing clutches in the mack , just need to build a few brackets. good luck with the gm. I usually need two boxes of band aids when screwing with a gm product, if theirs an unfinished anything my hands will find it lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RowdyRebel Posted October 20, 2015 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2015 That was a mess to get out...between the previous owner's "mud truck" ambitions and the fact that I didn't drop the pan to drain the fluid, let's just say it wasn't a "clean" tear-down. Hoping to drop the new transmission off at a shop this week for some rework (it is a 2wd trans...needs to have the 4wd tail housing for the t-case) and then put it back together in a week or two. 3 Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurstscrambler Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Truck looks real clean, that never happens in the northeast. I "converted" a th400 for my buddy to get his plow truck going, as I recall I just pulled the tailshaft housing and cut the tailshaft with a sawzall. That truck is gonna be so much nicer with the OD. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 That's what the guy across the highway said to do...and if it were a "toy" and had picked the transmission out of a scrap yard, I'd have a go at it that way...but this is a brand new transmission for what will be the wife's daily driver. I'll leave the modifications to those who know what the heck they are doing so that I don't have to worry about something not working right. I don't know the first thing about the innards of a transmission. I'm not saying I couldn't figure it out...but would rather it be my own play toy that I do the experimenting on so if it blows up, I can park it out of the way until I get around to tearing into it. Wife is hard enough on vehicles without me causing issues hacking things up. Hell, I did 6-8 months worth of research figuring out what all I'd need, making a parts list, and figuring out the total cost before I ordered the first part. Sure, I could've spent 1/4 as much and just fixed the TH400...and kept the 9.25 mpg. If we can hit 12-13 mpg with gas prices where they are now, it'll pay for itself in about 3 years. Quicker if prices go up (which they probably will). He (guy across the highway) wants the TH400...gonna rebuild it for his boy's mud truck. I just gotta figure out what the core value of a burned up TH400 is. He's also going to swap front drive shafts with me since he'll need a shorter one and I'll need a longer one. New trans is about 1" longer, so my rear shaft will still work. Front won't quite reach, though, so we'll see what he's got and if it'll work that right there will pay for the trans shop's work. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurstscrambler Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Absolutely, auto transmissions are intimidating to me at least and thats a nice trans. I would do the same thing, im anxious to here your thoughts after your finished. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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