WorkingProgress Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I have a 86 Mack with the 350 and was wondering if anyone had tried putting compound turbos on one. I'm not trying to make more boost or sup up the engine, just a quicker spool by putting a small turbo with my stock one, any suggestions would be helpful, Thanks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 My suggestion is why would two turbos spool up faster than one.Same drive pressure going thru two instead of one.You can put a turbo on from a smaller HP engine and it will spool faster and boost maybe more till it blows or has too much drive pressure build up and will not be able to over come the advantage of fast spool up. 1 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I understand how the smaller turbo spools up and makes boost until the exhaust pressure come up enough to have the larger turbo make the power.They take out the low rpm lag. Fabricating the plumbing fabrication is intense. What happens with the fuel delivery with the added low speed boost? I know it works fine with a gas engines. You can use a laptop to reprogram ECM's fuel curve. Question is what system its there for the diesel?The system for the 6.7 Dodge-Cummins has a piggy back controller and a Fast Tune port for your laptop. Think doing a MACK, Cummins or other is un charted territory. 1 Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 E.J. Utley had compounds on his e6 4valve in GATR racing back in the day . Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 There is an E-9 Puller on here running a twin compound set up. But the fuel management is way different for a street driven truck. I would look into a Garrett Variable Vane Turbo Diesel as a possible alternative the the compound set up. Does basically the same thing as a compound turbo in a single unit. Might be better and simpler in the long run. Less plumbing and no real heavy injection mods. Paul Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullfuel01 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 staxx, do you know more about E.J. Utley? I found a few pictures of his yellow superliner but not much. cool ride for sure Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingProgress Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 It has a mechanical pump, would u have to have wiring to tell the VGT what position to be in? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It has a mechanical pump, would u have to have wiring to tell the VGT what position to be in?VGT units the intake aperture not the vanes are controlled by a one of the following. A vacuum actuator, electric servo actuation, 3-phase electric actuation, hydraulic actuator or air actuator using air-brake system pressure. A few years ago Suprock Technologies released a VGT turbocharger controller that is capable of actuating any variable geometry turbocharger based on sensor parameters including pressures, temperatures, and shaft speed. This controller enables vehicles that aren't originally equipped with a VGT to make use of the technology for increased performance and efficiency. The controller is capable of calculating turbo performance based on engine and exhaust temperatures, exhaust pressure, air flow, and compressor behavior. The turbo compressor efficiency among other parameters that are displayed on a gauge pod located in the dash board.The Garrett Variable Vane uses both rotating vanes of their design or the Cummins patented Sliding vane mechanical technology depending on application. Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingProgress Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 That sounds pretty exspensive, I was hoping to get a small turbo from a salvage yard and I could do the rest. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Ford Powerstroke had a variable vane turbo at one time? Maybe still does? Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
james j neiweem Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 They call them VGT's variable geometry turbos. The vanes are partialy open for greater air flow velocity on acceleration. When the vanes are full open you get max air flowat higher power levels. On my 6.0 the max boost (vanes wide open) is about 40 psi. Being that its a 6.0 I never go over 20 psi. 6.0's like to be worked easy if you want them to last. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Ford seems to have the best success with the VGT units both on Diesels and the Eco Boosted gas engines. Getting a smaller turbo from a salvage yard is possible if you do a "compressor map" to match the boost verses rpm and Power bands. With out that the turbos will end up "fighting" each other and you'll lose power, economy and have emissions issues.I gained most of the knowledge working with Ohio George Montgomery setting up my SVT Mustang. Went through the compound turbo verses twin Garrett Eco Boost style turbos verses turbo and an axial blower combo. Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingProgress Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Could I just figure up what turbo would go with a 056AP, and then look up what vehicles would have that turbo size? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Could I just figure up what turbo would go with a 056AP, and then look up what vehicles would have that turbo size?Don't see why not. You could also call Garrett and see what VGT is a direct replacement for the stock one on your engine. Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingProgress Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Does anyone know how to figure up what turbo would work? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 It involves about 6 different algebraic formulas with this info plus more needed. Engine cubic inch. RPM, CFM, #PM, Ambient Air temp, Altitude, Barometric pressure, Flow loss through Air Filter, Exhaust temp, Exhaust pressure and Fuel use per hour, Air inlet temp, Air outlet temp and Power band desired. 1 Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-306968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmyb Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I know what your saying, but I think it would be wasted on this type of set up. For instance, your engine should have a multi speed gearbox to keep you in the right hp/rpm band. I know in my truck, if I change up at say 1700, next gear I'll start at around 1400 and I'm making plenty of boost already. But I'm not trying to talk you out of it, it would be cool to see something like that. And I'm always thinking of things I'd like to try, but I don't think you'd see much benifits. P.S. Hope you prove me wrong. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-307000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigiron86 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 So I am in the process of building a compound setup for my 2v E6 Mack I believe there much tougher then given credit.... just gotta keep it up in rpm and not lug it ..... so I’m going to use a k31 as my high pressure turbo comes off a Detroit series 60 and a s480 as my low pressure turbo I have my fuel setup figured Out so my plan is run it till it quits if it does quit then swap out for a e7 mech engine. Mack truck are what I love but!!! Coming from building quite a few performance Diesel engines I can tell you this Mack’s air flow research has always been behind a k31 will much more air and move it much more Efficiently aka faster spook up so it should be much more snappier and cooler running and and on the big end the s480 will take care I will take pictures when I start and give you a update how it performs 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-430043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZB755V8 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) Don't know what your end result is, work truck play truck or just a challenge. As for spooling up and the time it takes, the limiting factor at least with a Mack is the Mack transmission if that is what you are using. The Mack trans will not shift until the engine winds down to pull it into a higher gear, it just will not speed shift and there is a lot of mass to slow down with big triple countershafts spinning not to mention slowing the engine RPM's. Forget about any shifting at all above 2500RPM's. An old Allison HT740 or 754 would be the way to go for shifting and once the turbo is "spook up" as you say it will stay there until you lift your foot. There is a lot involved with doing a compound turbo set-up. A lot of calculations and development to get a set-up to work every day in all conditions. Years ago there were a few compound turbo truck engines and the end result was to get more boost than what a single turbo would produce, like a 475 Cat and 2008 to 2014? Ford Powerstroke, the Mack E9 tank engine. Fast forward to today and it is EZ to get 60 plus pounds of boost out of the new technology aftermarket turbos. The new turbo set-ups are smaller twin turbos for faster spooling as boost PSI is no longer a factor to achieve. A nice new BW S480 turbo is about $1200 and more than most E6's can handle. Turbo lag has been reduced as the rotating mass of the new turbos is much less and efficiency is much greater than turbos from the 1970-1990's, when the E6 engine was produced. Have fun but there is a much easier way to get more boost reliably, At least enough to blow head gaskets, scorch pistons and spin rod bearing. As for cool factor most guys would just ask why or say: It's a Mack "performance counts" just not high performance. By the way I think Staxx is getting about 1000hp out of a single turbo on his race truck. Edited August 14, 2019 by AZB755V8 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-430045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 https://switchbladeturbo.com/ check it out 1 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-430046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxidyne Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Why blow thousands blowing (up) an E6 2 valve when the last Mack sixes will give you 460 HP from the factory? 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-430049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Technician Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I'm in the hater category when it comes to compounding turbos. They are engine killers. We lost a Liehberr at 4,800 hours because the secondary turbo blew and the operator ran right through it till the engine literally exploded. The sister turbo will make up for the second while its failing so it robs the operator of sensing the catastrophe onset. If you have a DPF your really in trouble, it will not even smoke before it explodes. In your case you would see some smoke. When/If your secondary turbo goes it may start to ingest engine oil and your first turbo will give her lots of extra air so if it blows it may be quite an impressive show. Crowd pleaser at a truck pull. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-430052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 The bottom end of a E6 is the weak link 2 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-430092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Mack Technician said: I'm in the hater category when it comes to compounding turbos. They are engine killers. We lost a Liehberr at 4,800 hours because the secondary turbo blew and the operator ran right through it till the engine literally exploded. The sister turbo will make up for the second while its failing so it robs the operator of sensing the catastrophe onset. If you have a DPF your really in trouble, it will not even smoke before it explodes. In your case you would see some smoke. When/If your secondary turbo goes it may start to ingest engine oil and your first turbo will give her lots of extra air so if it blows it may be quite an impressive show. Crowd pleaser at a truck pull. NICE! Probably not doing an inframe on that puppy! oops 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-430095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Technician Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, fjh said: NICE! Probably not doing an inframe on that puppy! oops Nothing left but the crying on that unit. Liehberr abandoned that engine and went back to one turbo now. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42080-compound-turbos/#findComment-430099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.