Popular Post kscarbel2 Posted October 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted October 8, 2015 (related post - http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/42059-r-model-and-mh-model-frame-dimensions/?hl=frame). 5 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladislav Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Thank you for posting the great stuff!Wonder what did they mean showing out "standard" and metric frames?Was there the sheet metal thikness SAE or metric or they just describe the same stuff with different scales?3/8" is not exactly 10mm. Quote Никогда не бывает слишком много грузовиков! leversole 11.2012 Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-306864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Thank you for posting the great stuff!Wonder what did they mean showing out "standard" and metric frames?Was there the sheet metal thikness SAE or metric or they just describe the same stuff with different scales?3/8" is not exactly 10mm.We used the English System at that time, so the frame rails were, for example, 3/8 inch. And then 3/8" was rounded out to 10mm in description for the global market. Of course 3/8" and 10mm are extremely close.The first time we dealt with the Metric System was when we offered the normally aspirated Scania D8 and turbocharged DS8 as an engine option. Never had any troubles.Then we entered another stage with the Metric System when we began selling the superb Renault-produced Mack Mid-Liner medium truck range. That generally went smoothly. When many dealers did a wheelbase change, after removing the crossmember rivets, they went back with Mack Truck's legendary (5/8") "body bound bolts", the best frame fastening system ever devised right up to the present day (my opinion).The third Metric System introduction was the MH Ultra-Liner, the cab and the chassis. And it used metric body bound bolts. There were still some English System fasteners around the truck as well. Of course shortly after the MH's introduction, we put the Super-Liner on the MH platform resulting in the RWI 600/700, so that was metric as well.Next, the E7 and CH brought Mack deeper into the Metric System.Both the English System and Metric System get the job done, but the latter is obviously a bit more versatile. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-306887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamsterGrrrl Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Was wondering when the changeover occurred. Most of my stuff is metric, so an Ultraliner or Superliner II would suit me well! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-306893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Automotive change over started around 1972 or 73. Gm used to color code Blue all metric fasteners Ford had a Black coating. A lot of techs bitched at having to buy metric tools, luckily I worked for BMW in 1968 to 1970 when you still could be an apprentice and had most metric tools. Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-306919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vladislav Posted October 10, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted October 10, 2015 That's all very intersting, thank you for explaining.Being grown in a metric part of the world I even had some casualities with SAE fasteners.Or "inch fasteners" as we used to call it here.Some special bolts and studs, oil seals and plugs are used in SAE. On Russian produced vehicles and other European countrie's either.Such an easy thing as a drive tool you fit a socket on to run a bolt has 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 and so on. Regardless sockets are metric in a set.The reason I asked about Mack frames is what I met as a trouble (not a great one though) along my restorations.The most of SAE fasteners you can buy here. Or order from US. Copper pipes for brake air lines seemed to me a problem but I found them just in a sonstruction supermarket, they are used (by some reason??) for air conditioning. Don't know why to use SAE pipes having all stock of cooper pipes of sizes 6-8-10-12mm everywhere.Something more extraordinal I found later. For the first it was thickness of sheet metal.Here you can buy 0.5-0.8-1.0-2-3-4 etc mm thick. But you can't get it of 3/8.Working with R-model door I wanted to fresh up the glasses. Could order them from Watts but it's a long story.I was going to just order them in a glass shop but found out the thikness is 5.7 mm.Here I can deal with 5 or 6mm. 5 seems slim. 6 would get snug.All in all those English system things makes my resto adventures more colorful.Happily I don't need to hit a concrete wall by my head along a job. 4 Quote Никогда не бывает слишком много грузовиков! leversole 11.2012 Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-306926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BC Mack Posted October 11, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2015 Hi Vlad.... try dealing with "three" different standards and a few variables...in the 60's to 80's the UK moved from BSF/BSW (Whitworth) to SAE then Metric... we also had to deal with BA (British Aerospace) fasteners, common was a 2BA, very close to a 10-32 but not quite...trucks and buses then could be a combination of all four right off the production line.... SAE frame, Metric ZF trans, BA electrical and BS Gardner engines.I keep my old BS tools to help local guys fix MGB's and Triumph motorcycles... in the late 80's a local Vancouver guy imported a Supermarine Spitfire wreck from India, word got out about my tools and he called to borrow them, nope, I come with the tools so I can add Spitfire to my credentials... !!! still need them as I still own a British made airplane myself...BC Mack 3 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-306946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ditchkus Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I have some metric tools,no Whitworth as i should I have a Triumph TR3A that I could use them on.Anyne familiar with Lucas Electricals "Prince of darkness" ? Joe D. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-306955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddeere Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Vladislav mentioned something about copper tubing that still confuses me. I went to a pluming supply store to get 3/4" tubing for the intake on the air compressor on my B model. They looked at my old piece and said it was air conditioning tubing. Their 3/4" tubing was 7/8". I thought tubing was O.D and pipe was I.D. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Hi Vlad.... try dealing with "three" different standards and a few variables...in the 60's to 80's the UK moved from BSF/BSW (Whitworth) to SAE then Metric... we also had to deal with BA (British Aerospace) fasteners, common was a 2BA, very close to a 10-32 but not quite...trucks and buses then could be a combination of all four right off the production line.... SAE frame, Metric ZF trans, BA electrical and BS Gardner engines.I keep my old BS tools to help local guys fix MGB's and Triumph motorcycles... in the late 80's a local Vancouver guy imported a Supermarine Spitfire wreck from India, word got out about my tools and he called to borrow them, nope, I come with the tools so I can add Spitfire to my credentials... !!! still need them as I still own a British made airplane myself...BC MackI never new what BA was short for it was used on a lot of electrical stuff out here 2 BA was the most common I have come across try going into a bolt shop here and asking for a BA bolt or nut they think Im swearing at them LOLPaul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladislav Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Hi Vlad.... try dealing with "three" different standards and a few variables...in the 60's to 80's the UK moved from BSF/BSW (Whitworth) to SAE then Metric... we also had to deal with BA (British Aerospace) fasteners, common was a 2BA, very close to a 10-32 but not quite...trucks and buses then could be a combination of all four right off the production line.... SAE frame, Metric ZF trans, BA electrical and BS Gardner engines.I keep my old BS tools to help local guys fix MGB's and Triumph motorcycles... in the late 80's a local Vancouver guy imported a Supermarine Spitfire wreck from India, word got out about my tools and he called to borrow them, nope, I come with the tools so I can add Spitfire to my credentials... !!! still need them as I still own a British made airplane myself...BC MackHell !!I have never of being heared that.Need some while to boil it up in my brain.British made airplane - sounds impressive Quote Никогда не бывает слишком много грузовиков! leversole 11.2012 Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladislav Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Vladislav mentioned something about copper tubing that still confuses me. I went to a pluming supply store to get 3/4" tubing for the intake on the air compressor on my B model. They looked at my old piece and said it was air conditioning tubing. Their 3/4" tubing was 7/8". I thought tubing was O.D and pipe was I.D.You're right, I hit that pool once.Not much of me but a friend of mine.He ordered a roll of that 3/4 cooper pipe from the States and got 7/8.There was remark at the bottom of the page in McMaster catalog about them tube sizes.Don't remember what was written there, something like "the sizes listed aren't the actual sizes but some special ones..."Just measure up the stuff you have and ask them to check what they have.If I remember correctly that's about pipes only, fittings are sized correct.Once I had another issue with cloth bitum penetrated pipe lining. To make my pipes antique.Had to order them from Holland. Needed a few but needed to complete the job.Somebody was flying out from Germany in a couple of days and was eager to keep my stuff with.So the shipping was an occasion.Looking the catalog I noted there was 19 mm lining wich must cover my 3/4 tube.But there was 22mm either wich must be too luse on it.Feeling some bad feelings I ordered them both.When I recieved the pack I found out that 22 fit my 19mm (3/4") pipe excellent.And the one that SHULD do it was way too small.I was luckie with that, othervise could get stuck with that job for a couple of weeks or month.Vlad Quote Никогда не бывает слишком много грузовиков! leversole 11.2012 Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
6368 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 they went back with Mack Truck's legendary (5/8") "body bound bolts", the best frame fastening system ever devised right up to the present day (my opinion).Could you please explain body bound bolts to me. Pics if somebody has them would be nice. Thanks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 http://www.reedpumps.com/manuals/BOOMSERVICE/Mack_Truck/1-011_Upfitters_Guide_for_Mack_Class_8_Chassis_January_2007.pdfPage 172 details body bound bolts. 1 Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Mack Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I never new what BA was short for it was used on a lot of electrical stuff out here 2 BA was the most common I have come across try going into a bolt shop here and asking for a BA bolt or nut they think Im swearing at them LOLPaulsorry Paul... brain fart, I've been too long in too many industries, it all merges in my brain after a whileBA is British Association...had to look it up after I posted, 'Aerospace' was too modern a word, thought is was 'aviation' but now corrected....wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Association_screw_threadsand if you want total confusion.. AN, MilSpec and NAS is a whole other world....http://cdn.worldfasteners.com/catalog.pdfnow you understand how my brain spins daily.....what happened to "nut and bolt"..???BC Mack 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Mack Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 You're right, I hit that pool once.Not much of me but a friend of mine.He ordered a roll of that 3/4 cooper pipe from the States and got 7/8.There was remark at the bottom of the page in McMaster catalog about them tube sizes.Don't remember what was written there, something like "the sizes listed aren't the actual sizes but some special ones..."Just measure up the stuff you have and ask them to check what they have.If I remember correctly that's about pipes only, fittings are sized correct.Once I had another issue with cloth bitum penetrated pipe lining. To make my pipes antique.Had to order them from Holland. Needed a few but needed to complete the job.Somebody was flying out from Germany in a couple of days and was eager to keep my stuff with.So the shipping was an occasion.Looking the catalog I noted there was 19 mm lining wich must cover my 3/4 tube.But there was 22mm either wich must be too luse on it.Feeling some bad feelings I ordered them both.When I recieved the pack I found out that 22 fit my 19mm (3/4") pipe excellent.And the one that SHULD do it was way too small.I was luckie with that, othervise could get stuck with that job for a couple of weeks or month.VladHi Vladthere were some DOT comments made to my employer about copper tubing used to repair air systems in older buses in our fleet (pre 1995).... seems the new production items do not match the sidewall thickness of older tubing... and industrial vs automotive sizes were not interchangeable nor of the same 'standards'... so, in theory, you cannot repair or splice in newer tubing into an older system... however, they said we could replace all the tubing in a vehicle with the spec used in a new production vehicle...!!!I don't think anyone takes any notice of this... we tried to comply but eventually the company approved our industrial building plumbers (plunger holders!!) to fabricate tubing for bus air systems, and they go to Home Depot for stock..!!!! seems the new heating systems in buses is now household copper tubing and soldered in....I keep all the larger air system copper tubing off scrap buses as I do repairs to vintage buses and the owners want them standard so no plastic tubing goes into them...BC Mack 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog13407 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 all pipes and copper tube as far as I know is measured by the inside opening size ID. not the outsize diameter. I to had to get a roll of refrigeration copper for the section of 3/4 air line off my compressor in my B 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hi Vlad.... try dealing with "three" different standards and a few variables...in the 60's to 80's the UK moved from BSF/BSW (Whitworth) to SAE then Metric... we also had to deal with BA (British Aerospace) fasteners, common was a 2BA, very close to a 10-32 but not quite...trucks and buses then could be a combination of all four right off the production line.... SAE frame, Metric ZF trans, BA electrical and BS Gardner engines.I keep my old BS tools to help local guys fix MGB's and Triumph motorcycles... in the late 80's a local Vancouver guy imported a Supermarine Spitfire wreck from India, word got out about my tools and he called to borrow them, nope, I come with the tools so I can add Spitfire to my credentials... !!! still need them as I still own a British made airplane myself...BC MackWhat Mk. Spitfire is it?I hope they finally find those crated and buried Mk. XIV Spits at RAF Mingaladon in Burma. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Mack Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 KSCIt is a PR MkXI.... a rare high altitude photo reconnaissance model... RAF/Indian serial PA908work stopped one day, it was traded off and sent to Pete Regina in Van Nuys CA who fully restored it and it is now on display at the USAF Museum in Dayton OH painted in PR blue and USAF markings wearing false serial MB950, the model type was flown by an American Sqdn in WW2BC Mack 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 sorry Paul... brain fart, I've been too long in too many industries, it all merges in my brain after a whileBA is British Association...had to look it up after I posted, 'Aerospace' was too modern a word, thought is was 'aviation' but now corrected....wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Association_screw_threadsand if you want total confusion.. AN, MilSpec and NAS is a whole other world....http://cdn.worldfasteners.com/catalog.pdfnow you understand how my brain spins daily.....what happened to "nut and bolt"..???BC MackHa ha not enough mega bites in the brain like me to many threads to many systems the brain just isnt meant to handle so much Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/42109-mack-frames-1989/#findComment-307162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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