bandscustom Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 A little background - I hired someone to come onsite and replace the camshaft in my 1990 EM7-300. After 4 weeks of taking me for a ride, he finally got everything back together and was never able to get the engine to fire up. He wanted me to give him more money to continue finding out the problem. Needless to say I asked him to pick-up his tools and leave. With the help of a friend, we re-timed everything, reset the valves and the engine fired up. Here's the problem - When the engine started, oil began pouring out through the head gasket. So we pulled the heads (by the way, while pulling the heads, we found where the mechanic didn't tighten all the head bolts). I had the heads serviced at a machine shop, purchased the head gasket kits using the VIN, installed the heads, torqued to the book specs in the order recommended and … when water was put in the radiator, it started leaking through the head gaskets. HELP!!! What are we doing wrong?Thanks in advance for any help. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Why did he pull the heads to do the cam?Where exsactly is the coolant coming from! between the heads .the sides rear.16 - 20 hours to do a cam job in the back yard is more than enough time weeks of time is rediculus!i have see the gasket come packaged accidently with an extra fire ring! Also in that era there where two diffrent style fire rings for two diffrent style liners!are you sure you got the corect ones Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandscustom Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 I was told he needed to remove the heads to drop magnets on the lifters to keep them in place as he pulled the cam. Not knowing any better myself, I took his word for it.The first time - oil leaked from both heads between the head and the block on the exhaust and manifold side. It wasn't just a small leak, it was a steady stream. One leak was about 3 inches wide.Second try - after getting everything bolted back up, we added water to the radiator (before adding oil, thank goodness) and it came out from both heads between the head and the block on the intake side.The gasket kit - The kit I got from Mack had rings that had 2 ridges with 2 separate hights. There was a sheet with the kit that explained pre 1993 cylinder sleeves had offset grooves and in 1993 they changed to grooves of the same depth. We installed the set with 2 different grooves. So, am I sure I installed the right ones? Not really. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Couple of things! Your going to have to pull the heads anyway! I kind of think you may have the wrong fire rings having said that if the engine has had new liners installed at some point the rings will be wrong for sure, one or more has come dislodged while asembling Or as I stated the fire rings came doubled up in the package one mre thought is were never removed from the get go from the liners the first time!? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I was told he needed to remove the heads to drop magnets on the lifters to keep them in place as he pulled the cam. Not knowing any better myself, I took his word for it.The first time - oil leaked from both heads between the head and the block on the exhaust and manifold side. It wasn't just a small leak, it was a steady stream. One leak was about 3 inches wide.Second try - after getting everything bolted back up, we added water to the radiator (before adding oil, thank goodness) and it came out from both heads between the head and the block on the intake side.The gasket kit - The kit I got from Mack had rings that had 2 ridges with 2 separate hights. There was a sheet with the kit that explained pre 1993 cylinder sleeves had offset grooves and in 1993 they changed to grooves of the same depth. We installed the set with 2 different grooves. So, am I sure I installed the right ones? Not really. Did you say this was your soninlaw?? Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandscustom Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 Thanks for the replys -We pulled the heads again. How can I tell which set of rings I need. I looked at the liners and I can't tell by looking what type of fire rings are required (I am going to get a magnifying glass today to see if it helps). I checked the rings that came in the package and they are all the same. If a liner did get dislodged, how can I check them? Wish I had all the old parts that were originally pulled off to compare with new but, the guy who did the work originally tossed them in the trash.No, he isn't my son in law...Thanks again for all the help,Brian Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Thanks for the replys -We pulled the heads again. How can I tell which set of rings I need. I looked at the liners and I can't tell by looking what type of fire rings are required (I am going to get a magnifying glass today to see if it helps). I checked the rings that came in the package and they are all the same. If a liner did get dislodged, how can I check them? Wish I had all the old parts that were originally pulled off to compare with new but, the guy who did the work originally tossed them in the trash.No, he isn't my son in law...Thanks again for all the help,BrianWhen you pulled the heads the fire rings looked to be in the correct location right?can you post a picture of the top of the liner ?If you look at the top of the liner does it look as it could use the stepped ring?Is there an odvious step ? If new liners were installed as the directions state the liner has one narrow high spot in at the middle of the outer flange That high spot has the same heigt either side of the ridge that ridge cuts its self into the ring as the head is tighted down !You'll notice there is grooves cut in the head as well make sure thous are clean.Also check the heads for cracks at the ends near the freeze plugs.If you get the new gaskets get them from a dealer have them pull up the tsb service buliten for the steped fire ring!Damit this is a real pain wish this guy had left the heads alone there was no need to pull them!When you get the new gaskets install them on shiney clean surfaces block and head I use hitack spay on both sides of the gasket as an extra safety but not nessary.Chances are because the job was so halfassed the first time once the gasket leaks like that its impossible to seal it properly! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandscustom Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 I haven't had chance to work on the fire ring mystery until this afternoon. With the information you provided, the sleeve just didn't look right. Well guess what... the original fire rings were still in place. The guy I hired originally to do the work never pulled the rings and installed new ones on top of the old. No wonder the head gasket wouldn't seal. Even though this is my first encounter with cylinder sleeves and fire rings, boy, do I feel like an idiot. Thanks again for the help you provided. Your comments and suggestions helped me better understand what to look for. Brian Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I haven't had chance to work on the fire ring mystery until this afternoon. With the information you provided, the sleeve just didn't look right. Well guess what... the original fire rings were still in place. The guy I hired originally to do the work never pulled the rings and installed new ones on top of the old. No wonder the head gasket wouldn't seal. Even though this is my first encounter with cylinder sleeves and fire rings, boy, do I feel like an idiot. Thanks again for the help you provided. Your comments and suggestions helped me better understand what to look for. BrianWell done bro at least ya got to the bottom of things. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I hope that didnt crack the flange on the liners. glenn Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I hope that didnt crack the flange on the liners. glennI think it will be fine Glenn!As I explained we had this happen once with a head gasket set that had fire rings doubled up on one head there was no ill effects from it! it had been torqued down and all as well! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/4216-em7-300-cylinder-head-wateroil-leak/#findComment-22357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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