Ford Ranger and Bronco rumors swirl yet again

[kscarbel2]

Autoblog / November 9, 2015

As expected, buried deep inside the many pages of Ford's proposed new contract with the UAW are discussions on what's going to happen at the Michigan Assembly Plant after production of the C-Max and Focus are moved to Mexico after 2018.

Not surprisingly, coinciding with that news, two nameplates that have long resonated with traditional Ford buyers are once again circulating the rumor mill: Bronco and Ranger.

It's important to note that none of this information has yet been confirmed by Ford, and, when contacted, Ford Truck Communications Manager Mike Levine told us that – you guessed it – "Ford does not comment on speculation or future product plans." But that's certainly not going to stop anybody else from speculating.

According to The Detroit Free Press, which quotes the always nebulous "person briefed on the agreement who was not authorized to speak publicly," the Ranger is headed for production by 2020 in Michigan, followed shortly thereafter by a new Bronco.

That timing makes sense – assuming the Focus and C-Max move out in 2018, it would take some time to switch gears at the plant from making compact cars to midsize pickup trucks and SUVs.

While a new Bronco and US availability of the Ranger will surely be welcome news to small truck and 'ute fans, perhaps less welcome to the rank-and-file at Ford are future production plans that don't include many next-gen cars (as opposed to trucks, crossovers and SUVs) built in America.

In addition to the aforementioned compact cars, there's no sign of the Ford Fusion or Taurus in any of Ford's as-yet confirmed production plans.

If those models are produced outside US borders, that would leave the Mustang and Lincoln Continental as the only cars Ford produces in the United States.

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[TeamsterGrrrl]

I noted in the Detroit News article that the Ohio plant that just got the medium trucks is slated to get another product... Could this be why the Cargo is suddenly getting so much exposure in english speaking markets?

[kscarbel2]

I noted in the Detroit News article that the Ohio plant that just got the medium trucks is slated to get another product... Could this be why the Cargo is suddenly getting so much exposure in english speaking markets?

Aside from my mentioning of the Ford Cargo on BMT, I hadn't noticed any additional exposure.

In my attempt at including the full scope of global truck developments, I wanted U.S. folks to know that Ford was still in the heavy truck business overseas.

To compete in the U.S. market (and western Europe if they wish to participate there), I'll argue Ford needs to improve the truck's aesthetics. I don't care for the excessive use of plastic body cladding. Having said that, the Cargo being a COE only has potential as a medium-duty truck in the U.S. market.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

I was referring to the article in Commercial Motor. Other possibilities could be a class 8 conventional or...?

[68-f-model]

The ford Cargo is Europe, China and South America with zero plans for the US. It is a full class 8 truck , at least that is what ford told me when I designed the wire harness for it this summer. There are how ever two different cargo platforms thus requiring two different harnesses . The only difference between the two I know about is the sheet metal on the cab is physically wider 102 or so millimeters according to the cad models I have from Ford Otosan in Turkey.

[kscarbel2]

The ford Cargo is Europe, China and South America with zero plans for the US. It is a full class 8 truck , at least that is what ford told me when I designed the wire harness for it this summer. There are how ever two different cargo platforms thus requiring two different harnesses . The only difference between the two I know about is the sheet metal on the cab is physically wider 102 or so millimeters according to the cad models I have from Ford Otosan in Turkey.

The Ford Cargo is built as a light, medium and heavy truck. (only as a light truck in Brasil, using the last generation cab).

It's sold in Turkey obviously, and Eastern Europe, but not Western Europe.

The Cargo is not yet sold in China, though Ford is fumbling along with a plan, prayer and incompetent local partner.

[Red Horse]

I noted in the Detroit News article that the Ohio plant that just got the medium trucks is slated to get another product... Could this be why the Cargo is suddenly getting so much exposure in english speaking markets?

Yes- the amount of investment is 250 million-which I believe is considerably more than the investment to bring 650/750 in from Bluediamond. Various articles referred to the investment for "new product". That could be just a new exclusive medium/heavy duty cab-which really makes sense as Super Duty at KTP goes to an aluminum cab. Are they going to continue building a steel Super Duty cab just for 650-750? Doesn't make sense to me.

And KSC- there is that Heavy cab in Brazil that looks nothing like the big "plastic clad" Turk-more like the old KTP Cargo. If you believe in "One Ford" the Ohio investment has to mean something is up. Plus a lot of money is being spent to upgrade the 6.2 liter gas V-8-also potential good medium duty news.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

250 million $$$ is enough to set up a lne for a new medium/heavy truck or develop an engine, but not enough to develop a new car or light truck platform from scratch. A new conventional cab just for class 6 and above would be a questionable investment, given that the break even point for a mass production platform is around 100,000 units a year and the whole North american market is only 400,000 units in a good year. Perhaps they're thinking of developing a new "world truck" platform, with conventional and cabover variations to adapt to markets anywhere?

[Red Horse]

250 million $$$ is enough to set up a lne for a new medium/heavy truck or develop an engine, but not enough to develop a new car or light truck platform from scratch. A new conventional cab just for class 6 and above would be a questionable investment, given that the break even point for a mass production platform is around 100,000 units a year and the whole North american market is only 400,000 units in a good year. Perhaps they're thinking of developing a new "world truck" platform, with conventional and cabover variations to adapt to markets anywhere?

Exactly. that is what I meant by....If you believe in "One Ford" the Ohio investment has to mean something is up.

[kscarbel2]

Yes- the amount of investment is 250 million-which I believe is considerably more than the investment to bring 650/750 in from Bluediamond. Various articles referred to the investment for "new product". That could be just a new exclusive medium/heavy duty cab-which really makes sense as Super Duty at KTP goes to an aluminum cab. Are they going to continue building a steel Super Duty cab just for 650-750? Doesn't make sense to me.

And KSC- there is that Heavy cab in Brazil that looks nothing like the big "plastic clad" Turk-more like the old KTP Cargo. If you believe in "One Ford" the Ohio investment has to mean something is up. Plus a lot of money is being spent to upgrade the 6.2 liter gas V-8-also potential good medium duty news.

Brazil builds the new Cargo cab with the plastic cladding (near identical to Otosan), and the last generation cab (now relegated to the low-cost light truck models).

I don't know what third cab you're speaking of.

As for the Ohio investment, if I'm following you, that really wasn't a big investment, and the F-650/750 as a conventional cab medium truck has no market outside of North America (Canada, U.S. and lawless Mexico).

[Red Horse]

Brazil builds the new Cargo cab with the plastic cladding (near identical to Otosan), and the last generation cab (now relegated to the low-cost light truck models).

I don't know what third cab you're speaking of.

As for the Ohio investment, if I'm following you, that really wasn't a big investment, and the F-650/750 as a conventional cab medium truck has no market outside of North America (Canada, U.S. and lawless Mexico).

I'm talking about the 2629. It doesn't have all the puffed out panels and the roof is flat. Downside it has a 6.7 Cummins as apparently the only power plant but it does have a Meritor tandem, and an 8LL Eaton.

and I'm not suggesting the 650/750 is the "One Ford" extension-rather I'm saying that some of the Ford Otosan/Ford Brazil engineering gets translated at Avon Lake.

[kscarbel2]

I'm talking about the 2629. It doesn't have all the puffed out panels and the roof is flat. Downside it has a 6.7 Cummins as apparently the only power plant but it does have a Meritor tandem, and an 8LL Eaton.

and I'm not suggesting the 650/750 is the "One Ford" extension-rather I'm saying that some of the Ford Otosan/Ford Brazil engineering gets translated at Avon Lake.

The C-2629 6x4 vocational chassis (http://www.fordcaminhoes.com.br/cargo/c-2629) has the same cab as the Ford Brazil C-2842 6x2 tractor (http://www.fordcaminhoes.com.br/cargo/c-2842) and the Ford-Otosan 1846T 4x2 tractor ( http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/34938-the-global-market-ford-cargo-heavy-tractor/?hl=1846t).

Problems with that narrow cab begin with you having to swing yourself over those big fenders, not to mention getting your pants dirty as they wipe across the fenders, to the reduced interior space due to the narrow cab width.

The first generation Cargo cab still used on the Brazilian C-816 (http://www.fordcaminhoes.com.br/cargo/c-816) and C-1119, which is also the cab Americans had experience with, was designed by Ford UK in 1981 (http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/2nd-february-1985/22/cargo-cabs-for-brazil).

The Ford-Otosan designed second generation Cargo cab in production today was launched in 2003 at Ford-Otosan.

But the 2nd gen Cargo cab wasn't introduced at Ford Brasil until 2011 for the 2012 model year. Those 2nd gen cabs for Brazil production are imported from Ford Otosan. Brasil still produces the 1st gen cab (low volumes now)

In 2013, the 2nd gen Cargo cab was refreshed (the odd grilles and plastic cladding). Under the Ford Global Cargo Truck Program, the effort was headed by Ford car designers including chief engineer John Sidelko (2005 Ford Focus) and exterior designer Fabio Sandrin (Ford no longer has any heavy truck engineers, as in the Louisville days).

The 2013 facelift was the first time that Ford Brazil and Ford-Otosan got in sync (Mulally's "One Ford" global streamlining strategy). Essentially, Ford-Otosan helped Ford Brazil rejuvenate its outdated Cargo product range.

All the Brazilian models adopted the new heavy use of plastic trim, but that's not the case in the Ford-Otosan product range (http://www.ford.com.tr/agir-ticari-araclar/ford-cargo).

Ford-Otosan is not merely a production base, rather they actually develop Ford's global market heavy trucks there. But Dearborn seems unwilling to commit to the level of resources necessary for Ford-Otosan to become a serious global player.

The Ford-Otosan 1846T has the drivetrain and platform to be a serious European 4x2 tractor. But it lacks a full-size cab to make the truck a home run. Whether or not Otosan can evolve further all depends on Dearborn's interest in the global heavy truck market. With Ford wanting to enter China's rapidly maturing heavy truck market, a new cab and robust European level 6x4 tractor platform are absolutely required.

With that in mind, under the ongoing H62X Global Cargo Truck Program, Ford is developing a 3rd generation product for the 2018 model year led by Ford-Otosan manager Atilla Argat.

[kscarbel2]

Ford-Otosan 2nd gen cab (2003-present). Note the planetary hub reduction drive axles (the European preference), Meritor MT32-610.

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Ford-Otosan 2013 2nd gen refresh for the 1846T 4x2 tractor (and all Brasil)

[kscarbel2]

Ford Brasil C-2842 6x2 with Iveco Cursor 10 and ZF-sourced AS Tronic AMT.

[kscarbel2]

Again Ford Brasil (meeting a market requirement different from Ford-Otosan's)

[kscarbel2]

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Thanks for filling some gaps in my Cargo knowledge. So perhaps Ford could build a class 6-8 conventional off the upcoming H62X platform at the Ohio plant?

[kscarbel2]

Thanks for filling some gaps in my Cargo knowledge. So perhaps Ford could build a class 6-8 conventional off the upcoming H62X platform at the Ohio plant?

Unlike the 2013 refresh team, a mixture of U.S. and Otosan people, all the designers on the MY2018 H62X program seems to be Otosans. That tells me it's probably global market only.

But who knows, Ford's Transcontinental had a modified U.S. market Louisville chassis. Of course in those days, Ford had a huge team of professional heavy truck people under their roof. Now they only have car and pickup truck designers.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Sad that Ford can't or won't take advantage of an improving North American market- When Ford sold out their heavies nearly two decades ago we had 7 competitors driving margins down. Now with only 4 truck makers left here and less competition, Ford could probably turn a profit in heavy trucks. Then again, I ran across a report the other day that shows big for hire fleet's mileages going down, they're putting on only 500k miles instead of the 700k miles they used to during a 5 year ownership cycle. That suggests that these big fleets that drive the new heavy truck market could stretch out their ownership cycle to 10 years or so, which would mean a huge reduction in new truck sales.

[Red Horse]

Sad that Ford can't or won't take advantage of an improving North American market- When Ford sold out their heavies nearly two decades ago we had 7 competitors driving margins down. Now with only 4 truck makers left here and less competition, Ford could probably turn a profit in heavy trucks. Then again, I ran across a report the other day that shows big for hire fleet's mileages going down, they're putting on only 500k miles instead of the 700k miles they used to during a 5 year ownership cycle. That suggests that these big fleets that drive the new heavy truck market could stretch out their ownership cycle to 10 years or so, which would mean a huge reduction in new truck sales.

Ok guys-so what is H62X program? Never heard that one mentioned on BlueOvalNews.

As for the current class 8 market, hopefully if Ford does anything, they will stick to the vocational market. Let Freightliner and Volvo flood the large sleeper market for the Swifts, Cedrons and JB Hunts of the world with their Cascadias and VNs, let Paccar feed the owner operator market with 600 HP "large cars" but have at the rest of the market-namely vocational and regional haul.

Just thinking about changes in the last 20 years- or should I say since 1980. Drive I-90 in 1979 and it was one Roadway or CF or Yellow or Carolina after another. And in the case of I-90 in the Northeast, one turnpike double after another. And those big union carrier tractors? Conventional non sleeper Fords, Macks, Whites, Binders etc. Today??- a parade of Cascadia sleepers.

And I still say-that too will change as intermodal just continues to grow as the rail infrastructure is improved to eliminate the low bridges that restrict double stack containers and as new trackage is added in the high travel lanes. The 90" BBC linehaul tractor-that was run as a slip seat operation in the 70's/80's has been replaced by the Cascadia sleepers and I say those Cascadias will be replaced by the low cost regional tractor that picks up the box at the intermodal site,and delivers it to the distribution center or end user. No reason why Ford can't be a player in that market-as well as the true class 7/8 vocational business.

Hopefully this time they will keep their eye on the ball and not get distracted trying to appeal to everyone and every market.