electronic log books

[TeamsterGrrrl]

I haven't used paper logs since the early 90s- Used electronic logs at UPS starting in the early 90s and was under the 100 mile/12 hour day exemption at the Postal Service. For most of us, this is gonna be "no problem"!

[RowdyRebel]

Yup..."no problem" at all, unless YOU are the one being forced to spend $1500+ on a silly device and then subscribe to a service for $40+/per month to make the device do what it needs to do when $1.99 used to buy that same month's worth of log book pages. If you own more than one truck, you get to pay that expense FOR EACH TRUCK!!! But hey, "no problem", right? Get your fucking hand out of my wallet and stop encouraging government to dictate how I spend the money I earn, or what I should have "no problem" coming up with. Even as a company driver, it still costs you money. Your boss isn't digging into HIS pocket to pay for those devices...it comes from your wages as a cost of employing you, same as the employer's half of the emplyment taxes, any health insurance, paid time off, etc...it is ALL factored in. The more it costs your boss to employ you, the smaller your paycheck. Since your employer can't reduce your rate of pay, they just reduce the rate of growth...any raises you might have otherwise received are taken up by government mandated BS like this.

[HeavyGunner]

Easy now Rowdy, I think all teamstergrrrl meant was elogs have been around for a long time so there is a pretty big pool of drivers who will not notice the change since they already use elogs. Now that being said I do understand your point and completely agree with you. These new laws and regulations just seem to weed out more and more owner operators and that sucks. Competition in a capitalistic economy is a good thing and he government shouldn't impede that by over regulation.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

And given the demand for making a few hundred thousand trucks e-logs ready, I suspect by the time they're required e-logs will be a less than $10 cellphone app. Failing that, most trucks on board computers already have most of the data needed to do e-logs, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the manufacturers offer e-logs as a cheap or free add-on. And if you're a single operator or small fleet running an older truck, it might make business sense to operate within a hundred mile radius or intrastate only and take advantage of those exemptions.

[RowdyRebel]

Well, I took some time today to skim through the 500 or so pages of the proposed rule and all of the other BS. While I was doing that, I was doing some thinking about how I've been running and what it'll take to NOT have to install one of those silly things in my truck and I came up with a solution. I'll probably just keep doing what I'm doing running as much as I can until 30 days before the mandate deadline. At that point, I'll simply cut out 1 run every other week, which will put me at the "8 days in 30" limit, because there are only 3 exceptions to the new rule:

The following drivers are excepted in § 395.8(a)(1)(iii) from installing and using ELDs and may continue to use “paper” RODS:

• Drivers who use paper RODS for not more than 8 days during any 30 day period.

• Drivers who conduct driveaway - towaway operations, where the vehicle being driven is the commodity being delivered.

• Drivers of vehicles manufactured before model year 2000.

Unfortunately, my truck is a 2001...came off the line June of 2000...so that exemption does not apply. I'm not part of a driveaway - towaway operation. So, I'm left with only venturing out past the 100 air-mile radius "no more than 8 days during any 30 day period". I really only work every other day anyway...one day I might run 45 miles as I deliver my backhaul and grab the next load out...then I run 500 miles up to deliver and grab my next backhaul. So, instead of doing 2-1/2 turns per week, I'll cut that down to 2 turns per week and perhaps run a shorter load on day 29 instead of grabbing another long run. Going to take more effort staying on top of how many days I've been required to keep a log book, but it'll work. Just have to circle the days I need a log book on my calendar and stop accepting longer dispatches when I hit the 8th day in 30.

[m16ty]

We only travel out of the 100 mile limit about once or twice a month on average and our newest truck is a 1995 so we are two for two.

The down side is once in a blue moon we will make several long runs in a short period and that could turn into a problem but I sill don't think we will break the 8 day limit.

Another thing is I think they will tend to harass people without elogs, even though they are operating legally through the exceptions.

[RowdyRebel]

I've got a day cab, which is much more convincing as a "local" truck than a sleeper truck would be...but with the older trucks, it won't matter for you.

[Underdog]

Well, I took some time today to skim through the 500 or so pages of the proposed rule and all of the other BS. While I was doing that, I was doing some thinking about how I've been running and what it'll take to NOT have to install one of those silly things in my truck and I came up with a solution. I'll probably just keep doing what I'm doing running as much as I can until 30 days before the mandate deadline. At that point, I'll simply cut out 1 run every other week, which will put me at the "8 days in 30" limit, because there are only 3 exceptions to the new rule:

Unfortunately, my truck is a 2001...came off the line June of 2000...so that exemption does not apply. I'm not part of a driveaway - towaway operation. So, I'm left with only venturing out past the 100 air-mile radius "no more than 8 days during any 30 day period". I really only work every other day anyway...one day I might run 45 miles as I deliver my backhaul and grab the next load out...then I run 500 miles up to deliver and grab my next backhaul. So, instead of doing 2-1/2 turns per week, I'll cut that down to 2 turns per week and perhaps run a shorter load on day 29 instead of grabbing another long run. Going to take more effort staying on top of how many days I've been required to keep a log book, but it'll work. Just have to circle the days I need a log book on my calendar and stop accepting longer dispatches when I hit the 8th day in 30.

Good that you have a plan, Rowdy. But it sounds like you will be making less money, too. That is my problem with E-logs, it will cost me 1 or 2 loads per week. The guys that only want to work 10-12 hours a day love E-logs, because the boss can't force them to do any more than that. I am out away from home 5 days, and I try to maximize my available time and income, 13-14 hours a day. I don't get paid by the hour to sit in a hotel room.

Now I am even more determined to get my '85 MH up and running within the next 2 years if not sooner.

Gregg

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[RowdyRebel]

I've already told the wife what I intend to do. We'd LIKE to be in Texas by then (if we can find someone to buy this house) and when that move happens, it will be to a carrier that runs local. Or I hang up the keys and do something else for a living, pull a drive axle out from under the old dog, maybe graft another cab onto it to make it a quad-cab, perhaps mount a place to load a motorcycle or two behind the cab, and use it to pull the gooseneck horse trailer around when we travel (private use). When the elog mandate takes effect, it'll have all of 2 years on a brand new ReMack engine...be a waste to let 'er go, considering her value won't be all that much due to the mandate. People willing to drive older equipment will be looking for pre-2000, and people willing to run ELD's are typically looking for newer equipment. My truck is essentially worthless to anyone NOT running local. Thanks a bunch, FMCSA!

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Sorry to break the news to you, but any 15 year old truck is damn near worthless, that's what the market says, not me. By the time they're 10 years old trucks will sell for only 10% to 20% of original price, put a lot of $$$ into an old truck and you may not get it back.

[david wild]

Sold all the new junk, does not run anyway, now purveyor vintage rides that run and we can fix, told help you don't like it, move on, all said glad to have truck that will out run the new junk, Now I think that there might just be a biz in rebuilding old trucks for savy truckers. we have trucks that bob tail a lot coming from job sites, 11 miles to gallon bobtail is way better than the 5 we got with new trucks. figure that out.

[m16ty]

Sorry to break the news to you, but any 15 year old truck is damn near worthless, that's what the market says, not me. By the time they're 10 years old trucks will sell for only 10% to 20% of original price, put a lot of $$$ into an old truck and you may not get it back.

My oldest road truck is a '94 FL, just a little over 300k miles. It will take me anywhere I want to go. At the end of the day, I'll have more clear money in my pocket than somebody with a 2015 truck that they owe their soul for.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

There's a big data set being collected by a coalition of big fleets that together have a sample of thousands of trucks. They've found that the lemons were the 2007-2009 trucks that averaged only around 6 MPG and had more breakdowns than the earlier trucks. Their data from the 2010 and later trucks with urea injection finds them to be as reliable as the 2006 and earlier trucks and they're averaging 7 MPG. That said, it's hard to argue with the simplicity of an old Mack, but the improved MPG, safety, and comfort of the newer models is hard to argue with too.

[RowdyRebel]

7 mpg might sound good...until you factor in the cost of the DEF. Price per gallon, time consumed filling the extra tank, extra maintenance on the extra system, etc. I'll take my older pre-egr truck any day of the week. Be nice if it had come off the line 13 or so months earlier to be "officially" a '99 instead of an '01...but it's still a better truck than what I'd get trying to sell it thanks to the FMCSA.

[dogg rescue]

Where do Fitzgerald glider trucks fall into this? Seems like we need to put democracy to the test, call your local representative.

[m16ty]

Where do Fitzgerald glider trucks fall into this?

I'd say they are required to do e-logs as they are titled as new trucks. Every one I've seen had electronic engines so it should be compatible with the e-log hardware.

[Underdog]

Sorry to break the news to you, but any 15 year old truck is damn near worthless, that's what the market says, not me. By the time they're 10 years old trucks will sell for only 10% to 20% of original price, put a lot of $$$ into an old truck and you may not get it back.

My 30 year old truck is worth more to me now than it was just two weeks ago.

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[mack mhe9]

In the thoughts of gutting my 01 Vision and putting the drive train in an older non running truck. My 92 rw made the cut couldn't be happier.