MackR700Fan Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 How many of you know about the joint Mack-Scania diesel engines, including the six-banger ENDT475 (E4 in 1979) and the ENDT865/866 Thermodyne (to be replaced by the EM9 Maxidyne in 1979)?Is it true that there were two versions of the Scania DS14 series V8 diesel, one with the 5-1/4" (133mm) bore and 5" (127mm) stroke that the Mack ENDT865/866 also uses and another with the 5" (127mm) bore and 5-1/2" (140mm) stroke that had been on the Scania roster through the late 1990s (before its supersession by the DC16)?Thank you,Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaddeusW Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 How many of you know about the joint Mack-Scania diesel engines, including the six-banger ENDT475 (E4 in 1979) and the ENDT865/866 Thermodyne (to be replaced by the EM9 Maxidyne in 1979)?Is it true that there were two versions of the Scania DS14 series V8 diesel, one with the 5-1/4" (133mm) bore and 5" (127mm) stroke that the Mack ENDT865/866 also uses and another with the 5" (127mm) bore and 5-1/2" (140mm) stroke that had been on the Scania roster through the late 1990s (before its supersession by the DC16)?Thank you,BenBen, Scania and Mack go as far back as the 40's or 50's. Mack acquired the rights to use the open combustion chamber design from Scania for use in the 673 verses the Lanova pre-combustion chamber design of the 672. Now as for the V8 Scania might have influenced Mack or vice versa, not sure. But the two engines have always been very different in the fact that Scania uses eight individual cylinder heads versus Mack's four. The 865/866 evolved from the 864 just like the 676 Maxidyne evolved from the 673. They are very similar in design. Scania kept the 14 liter until about 1990 or so until they switched to the 16 liter with the new Streamliner cab and bumped the power beyond the 14's 500HP. Mack switch to 16 liters at the end of the 70s with the 400HP ENDT1000 later renamed to the E9. Its a shame Mack did not push the V8 more and they should have bumped the power like they did in Europe (565 HP) and Australia (610 HP. They could have then gave CAT and Cummins a run for their money but emissions were their downfall. I guess the engineering team wasnt up to snuff. Sad really when you think of how powerful the 237 was for its time (and in a way still is). Mack was really a leader in engine technology at one point. Quote -Thad What America needs is less bull and more Bulldog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRJordan Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 During recent touring in Scandinavia, I was impressed by the number of Scania V-8s on the roads, especially on highways between Copenhagen and Oslo. I appreciate having the relationship to Mack explained. In another life I even drove a Mack-Lanova powered LF. I also noted that the tandems under some Russian "Kamaz" trucks look at least superficially like Mack axles and camelbacks. Kamaz makes quite a range of heavy trucks and engines, including V-8s. Is there any relationship, or is this just coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james j neiweem Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 During recent touring in Scandinavia, I was impressed by the number of Scania V-8s on the roads, especially on highways between Copenhagen and Oslo. I appreciate having the relationship to Mack explained. In another life I even drove a Mack-Lanova powered LF. I also noted that the tandems under some Russian "Kamaz" trucks look at least superficially like Mack axles and camelbacks. Kamaz makes quite a range of heavy trucks and engines, including V-8s. Is there any relationship, or is this just coincidence?If I remember right about 25 years ago Mack was going to help the soviets build a truck plant in Kam something or another. The deal fell through as I recall for political reasons. Maybee there was some under the table deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huppypuppy Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Ben, Scania and Mack go as far back as the 40's or 50's. Mack acquired the rights to use the open combustion chamber design from Scania for use in the 673 verses the Lanova pre-combustion chamber design of the 672. Now as for the V8 Scania might have influenced Mack or vice versa, not sure. But the two engines have always been very different in the fact that Scania uses eight individual cylinder heads versus Mack's four. The 865/866 evolved from the 864 just like the 676 Maxidyne evolved from the 673. They are very similar in design. Scania kept the 14 liter until about 1990 or so until they switched to the 16 liter with the new Streamliner cab and bumped the power beyond the 14's 500HP. Mack switch to 16 liters at the end of the 70s with the 400HP ENDT1000 later renamed to the E9. Its a shame Mack did not push the V8 more and they should have bumped the power like they did in Europe (565 HP) and Australia (610 HP. They could have then gave CAT and Cummins a run for their money but emissions were their downfall. I guess the engineering team wasnt up to snuff. Sad really when you think of how powerful the 237 was for its time (and in a way still is). Mack was really a leader in engine technology at one point.ThaddeusW,I heard one of the meanest sounding EA9-610 V8 engines which was in an Australian Titan a few weeks ago - OD Transport has a big fleet of V8 powered Macks and Scanias anywhere in Australia.... even the V8 Scanias sound mean! Followed a Euro IV SCR R620 to town last Sunday my time - not even a puff of black smoke from the exhaust!Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaddeusW Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 ThaddeusW,I heard one of the meanest sounding EA9-610 V8 engines which was in an Australian Titan a few weeks ago - OD Transport has a big fleet of V8 powered Macks and Scanias anywhere in Australia.... even the V8 Scanias sound mean! Followed a Euro IV SCR R620 to town last Sunday my time - not even a puff of black smoke from the exhaust!JoeYea those New Euro emission engines are about the same as what we have here. You guys are going to get the Euro 4/5 and our EPA 2007 engines. Both are vary clean and emit so smoke at all. Only lame part is you cant strait pipe them anymore because of the DPF or the SCR catalyst. But I have seen a guy in Europe just simply remove the SCR system on his Euro 4 620 Scania and strait piped it from the turbo. Sounded mean and workes just fine but the Euro 5 engine would have thrown a fit and gone into limp home mode. Not sure what happens if you try to remove the DPF but I am sure it would throw a fit as well. Quote -Thad What America needs is less bull and more Bulldog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackboy Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 hello thaddeuswwe cannot strait pipe them for 100% but we strait pipe them for 80% you must lead 20% tru the muffler to let the system think that there is nothing wrong when you go for the 100% you get errors in the system and the system shut you down.then you drive over the highway whit no power.but we still built de trucks whit strait pipes only the sound is less than before greetings rene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaddeusW Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 hello thaddeuswwe cannot strait pipe them for 100% but we strait pipe them for 80% you must lead 20% tru the muffler to let the system think that there is nothing wrong when you go for the 100% you get errors in the system and the system shut you down.then you drive over the highway whit no power.but we still built de trucks whit strait pipes only the sound is less than before greetings rene Rene,That is a very clever idea; let some exhaust bypass the catalyst and fool it into thinking it is working. I think you would be in big trouble if you were caught running that setup though, at least with the DEC here in New York. Quote -Thad What America needs is less bull and more Bulldog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackboy Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Rene,That is a very clever idea; let some exhaust bypass the catalyst and fool it into thinking it is working. I think you would be in big trouble if you were caught running that setup though, at least with the DEC here in New York.hello thaddeusw we make a kind of valve between the strait pipe and the muffler and when we go to the inspection we shut the valve and the strait pipe so everything is back normal again.no problems whit the inspection greetings rene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumblymack76 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Ben, Scania and Mack go as far back as the 40's or 50's. Mack acquired the rights to use the open combustion chamber design from Scania for use in the 673 verses the Lanova pre-combustion chamber design of the 672. Now as for the V8 Scania might have influenced Mack or vice versa, not sure. But the two engines have always been very different in the fact that Scania uses eight individual cylinder heads versus Mack's four. The 865/866 evolved from the 864 just like the 676 Maxidyne evolved from the 673. They are very similar in design. Scania kept the 14 liter until about 1990 or so until they switched to the 16 liter with the new Streamliner cab and bumped the power beyond the 14's 500HP. Mack switch to 16 liters at the end of the 70s with the 400HP ENDT1000 later renamed to the E9. Its a shame Mack did not push the V8 more and they should have bumped the power like they did in Europe (565 HP) and Australia (610 HP. They could have then gave CAT and Cummins a run for their money but emissions were their downfall. I guess the engineering team wasnt up to snuff. Sad really when you think of how powerful the 237 was for its time (and in a way still is). Mack was really a leader in engine technology at one point.Did the 237 or maxidyne design have and influence from Scania or was it 100% designed by Mack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrey Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Ben, Its a shame Mack did not push the V8 more and they should have bumped the power like they did in Europe (565 HP) and Australia (610 HP. They could have then gave CAT and Cummins a run for their money but emissions were their downfall. I guess the engineering team wasnt up to snuff. Sad really when you think of how powerful the 237 was for its time (and in a way still is). Mack was really a leader in engine technology at one point.its not the engineers fault,they were unable to fit a higher injection pressure system ,to fit unit-injectors or unit-pumps the would have to modify completely the cylinder block.they could try common rail but this system was far from perfection in those years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackR700Fan Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Did the 237 or maxidyne design have and influence from Scania or was it 100% designed by Mack?I am not sure... I would think both were Mack originals.~Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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