Sound Proofing

[GOOG]

My Superliner is considerably noisier than my CL-713 and my CH-613. Has anybody ever gone on a sound proofing mission on an R Model cab? I'm thinking about taking up the floor mat and putting that foil faced stuff that guys put in car restorations. I'd also put the foil stuff on the inside of the doors and again under the door panels. I am thinking about silicone around any piercing of the firewall, and some type of spray sound deadener on both sides of the firewall. Any ideas?

[Outbehindthebarn]

I'll save Trent the trouble, but here's what he wrote to me about the subject. . .

I prepped the cabs metal interior with 3M rubberized paint. I did the doors,roof,wall, firewall and floor. Then went back and added dynamatt to the same areas. I even used up some roofing ashphalt sheets that a friend had left over. Its a little cheaper than dynamatt and has nearly the same sound deadning properties...I added some thicker home style fiberglass insulation to the rear wall corners to fill up any air space between the steel and interior wall panel. I was told that anywhere noise can bounce between 2 parts of steel it will act like a sub woofer. So I used thick insulation on the rear wall under the window and in the corners. For the floor I put down a rubber backed carpet over the dynamatt. I putt dynamatt on both sides of the door panels and inside the door shell, again going as thick as I could to fill up the air space best I could. Roof,floor and firewall all had 2 layers of dynamatt. I never did reinstall the interior firewall Matt that Mack installed from the factory as I'm still doing stuff there...

I think it made a big difference in sound. It will not be as quiet as today's new trucks but it took out all the vibration noise and did cut down on noise levels. I should mention my truck has the Mack western interior panels that is a little thicker than the east coast panels. It was worth it. Even with my straight stacks mounted to the cab I dont hear the vibration.

If I was to do it again I would just use the asphalt roofing meterials as its 1/3 the price and I hear that's what a lot of DIY car audio guys use to control vibrations as well?

[41chevy]

Did Dyna mat on every panel I could in the cab my Marmon including the roof. Made it quieter by at least 50% or more. AC and heat are better. I'l do the sleeper over the winter.

[Brocky]

Oldspwr (Tom Millard) has an extensive photo essay on the application of Dynamat into his fathers Brockway 361 on the Brockway trucks website.

http://www.brockwaytrucks.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1044

[j hancock]

Dynomat and other brands do a great job.

If a project is getting completely torn down, there is a product called Lizard Skin which is a spray product. One type is for noise and the other is for heat. It is such that you can spray a coat of the "heat" style and then a coat of the "sound" over it.

http://www.lizardskin.com/

[farmer52]

If a project is getting completely torn down, there is a product called Lizard Skin which is a spray product. One type is for noise and the other is for heat. It is such that you can spray a coat of the "heat" style and then a coat of the "sound" over it.

http://www.lizardskin.com/

Looks good. Too bad it does not come in an aeresol can (for us novices).

[j hancock]

Use their gun and no mixing. Other than mixing the actual product.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWEtrHOsV1s

Novice....? Don't let Red hear about that.

[Dirtymilkman]

It's worth every penny. The roof flashing tape works really well too

[GOOG]

I didn't know the name of the stuff, but I was on the right track. I'll put Dynamat on the floor and back wall of the cab. I'll get it on the firewall as much as possible. I will spray the lizard skin on the firewall under the hood. I'm not sure what will go inside the doors. I'll decide when I get in them. I want to reduce noise infiltration. I will also be helping the AC out at the same time. AC works pretty good, but a little help will be welcome. Thanks for the help. - Tom

[thomastractorsvc]

This what you want to use a 1/3rd the price of Dynamat and works really well. Now you can afford to do everything!

http://www.lowes.com/pd_28929-1410-FV516_0__?productId=1081449

This works great as added insulation

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=179375-1410-SP55&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3136375&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

[MACKS]

I'll save Trent the trouble, but here's what he wrote to me about the subject. . .

I prepped the cabs metal interior with 3M rubberized paint. I did the doors,roof,wall, firewall and floor. Then went back and added dynamatt to the same areas. I even used up some roofing ashphalt sheets that a friend had left over. Its a little cheaper than dynamatt and has nearly the same sound deadning properties...I added some thicker home style fiberglass insulation to the rear wall corners to fill up any air space between the steel and interior wall panel. I was told that anywhere noise can bounce between 2 parts of steel it will act like a sub woofer. So I used thick insulation on the rear wall under the window and in the corners. For the floor I put down a rubber backed carpet over the dynamatt. I putt dynamatt on both sides of the door panels and inside the door shell, again going as thick as I could to fill up the air space best I could. Roof,floor and firewall all had 2 layers of dynamatt. I never did reinstall the interior firewall Matt that Mack installed from the factory as I'm still doing stuff there...

I think it made a big difference in sound. It will not be as quiet as today's new trucks but it took out all the vibration noise and did cut down on noise levels. I should mention my truck has the Mack western interior panels that is a little thicker than the east coast panels. It was worth it. Even with my straight stacks mounted to the cab I dont hear the vibration.

If I was to do it again I would just use the asphalt roofing meterials as its 1/3 the price and I hear that's what a lot of DIY car audio guys use to control vibrations as well?

Thats it in a nut shell,save some money and use roof flashing to stiffen the sheet metal,thats where the noise is coming from,once it gets into the cab it just bounces around unless its absorbed by something like soft interior panels,newer trucks like your cl or ch are so quite because of the way the cabs are so well isolated from the rest of the truck,no vibrations getting into the metal of the cab,not much you can do about that except new cab mounts if needed or trany mounts also..good luck

[harrybarbon]

As J Hancock wrote - use the Lizard skin products - first use the sound proof then apply the original Lizrad skin. We have applied on 4 Mack truck projects and it works. Have applied to both sides of the fire wall, then when you paint the engine side of the fire wall you have to add paint flex into the paint colour if not the paint will peel off - we got the formula right on our B75 build and the fire wall paint finish is same as external panel finish and no peeling. Use the 2 products on all inside panels especially the doors, and both sides of cab floor, very easy to apply, more time to tape up to stop over spray. It is water based so easy non toxic clean up with water. Dont over spray to thick because it works with thin cover, must follow the instructions and dries real quick. Great insulation as well - the original owner / inventor Bob Call from Arizona used to to go to hot rod shows with lots of fry pans to do his fry pan demo - he applied lizard skin to the inside of the pan let it dry in a few minutes then heat up pan to 400 degrees and he then placed the palm of his hand on the inside base of the pan - no heat and no burning of his skin. We did the same to see if he was honest - and he was 100% correct - we did it in steps just in case, hard to believe yes he was right Here are some pictures, the fire wall has the sound proof and lizrad skin on it, hyfill on top and then the green paint over the top, other picture is the under side of the 2 infill panels next to the fenders .

[harrybarbon]

And I forgot to mention the lizard skin is flexible so it flows into all the cracks holes etc, especially the hard to get to places, it will go everywhere, the long flexible hose spray will go to all places especially the doors - so you won't have future problems with water penetration or air leaks it literally seals the cab - you can spray all inside the cab in under 30 minutes once prepared - let it dry and job finished, do the doors and they sound like alloy or fiberglass panels - tinny sound disappears

[Wobblin-Goblin]

Noted.

[Vladislav]

Not sure I'll be able to test Lizard skin the other day so here's a question - does it differ much from any common poliurethane underbody coat?

[harrybarbon]

Vlad - don't know how it compares to polyurethane undercoats - the 2 lizard skin products are water based and are applied after the base metal is prime coated with a traditional priming paint, which are usually an oil based product. Before prime painting good advice is to remove all surface rust. Best to go to the Lizard skin web site and read the technical information. If you need any further information send an email to the company and they will provide answers, I have emailed and called them, they have been very helpful when we had the problem applying the filler on top of the lizard skin on the engine side of the fire wall, it de-laminated the lizard skin off the fire wall, they resolved the problem telling us to add a flex additive to the filler and the green paint same as for painting the plastic curtain sides on tautliners. Has been on for 12 months all good and clean smooth finish on top coat as pictures show.

[eddeere]

A couple of questions. What was the filler and it's purpose? I watched Eastwood's videos and looks as it goes on rough. How do you get a smooth surface to paint over?

[Vladislav]

Vlad - don't know how it compares to polyurethane undercoats - the 2 lizard skin products are water based and are applied after the base metal is prime coated with a traditional priming paint, which are usually an oil based product. Before prime painting good advice is to remove all surface rust. Best to go to the Lizard skin web site and read the technical information. If you need any further information send an email to the company and they will provide answers, I have emailed and called them, they have been very helpful when we had the problem applying the filler on top of the lizard skin on the engine side of the fire wall, it de-laminated the lizard skin off the fire wall, they resolved the problem telling us to add a flex additive to the filler and the green paint same as for painting the plastic curtain sides on tautliners. Has been on for 12 months all good and clean smooth finish on top coat as pictures show.

Harry, thank you for the detailed explanations.

It just seems difficult to me to order a set from overseas and I'm not sure both local mail and custom service would be eager to pass a pack of liquid stuff.

On the other hand I can just go to a nearest automotive shop and buy some cans/spray cans of toluine-based poliurethane resin wich makes a rubber-like skin on a surface, a kind like modern cars have on their bodies and wheel arches. I used that material many times and it works perfect for corrosion protection. Limits sounds and heat income in theory and as how it is described by the producent. Usually I apply made-in-Germany or Eastern Europe stuff.

I sure would like to test Lizard Skin since folks on here tell it's good. Alot of worthless worthfull advices on here.

Going to put my hands on the R-model cab in the future. It's actually far from to be silent, difficult to talk with a cell phone when down the road.

Currently I do the sleeper, put the local made bithum matts wich were similar to Dyna mat. Hope to start on the cab in some months.

[harrybarbon]

The filler is hyfill that we sprayed onto the body panel after prime coating to produce a smooth surface finish before spraying the final top coat - on our cab it's the Irish green. To explain our process for the fire wall, on the engine side, cab stripped to bare metal, rust etc repaired, spray primer, then on the fire wall - engine side - we sprayed first the Lizard skin - the sound control,let it dry and lightly sand to remove rough finish, then we sprayed the second product the lizard skin and also did a light sanding after drying (they have the 2 products and must be applied as noted here), then we sprayed the hyfill - we added a paint flexible additive to the hyfill to make it flexible before spraying, the hyfill was sanded back and a second coat of hyfill with flex additive applied to get a complete cover and it was sanded resulting in a smooth surface, let it dry for 1 week then we sprayed the top coat (Irish green) which also had the flex additive - the pictures show the final result - fire wall is as smooth as the cab exterior and no peeling as we had when we painted without the flex additive - now 18 months since applied we have had extremely hot and 2 very cold winter temperatures and no peeling. We also applied the sound control and the lizard skin onto the cab interior side of the fire wall - so the fire wall is sandwiched on both sides with the 2 lizard skin products, we also did same to the cab floor (no hyfill because there is no top coat paint) the all other non painted surfaces inside the cab even behind the dash board - application inside the cab was max 30 minutes and a thin coat (thickness of a credit card) and just to be sure we gave a second thin coat.

It is a simple, easy product to spray onto metal and other surfaces and non toxic product - easy to wash up with water and it fills all the weld joints and metal joints and hard to get spots

Vlad the lizard skin is a rubber like skin with golf ball finish once it dries, it is now approved by the US car companies as an after market rust protector for repairing accident damage, for all underside panels. The inventor of lizard skin crated it from the space shuttle products used on the heat tiles around the shell of the space shuttle. There are other similar products that are based on the air bubble technology. The air freight couriers like DHL will transport the product, we got our first 2 gallon pails by DHL post 9/11, no problems. There are some web sites that you can read up on that people have written and compared the various sound and temp control products - worth reading. Good luck with your project.

[eddeere]

Thanks for the explanation. It all makes sense. I would never have thought to use the flex agent.

[thomastractorsvc]

The first primer was a sealer primer? And the flex agent was used because you top coated correct?

[eddeere]

Has anyone ever used " Great Stuff " spray foam insulation for areas where you can not spray? I have seen it done but do not know if it is a good idea.

[harrybarbon]

Yes the first primer is a metal primer to seal the metal or fiberglass or aluminium body panels. And yes if the lizard skin is to be painted with a top coat then a flex must be added into the top coat or as we did added to the hyfill. On the underside of the hood we sprayed the lizard sound control and then a couple of coats of green top coat to hide the dark grey lizard skin - we added flex in the top coat.

Re the foam products we have not used them, we checked them out but they don't stick and seal same as the lizard skin. We have used the foam for building plumbing jobs and other general building maintenance jobs filing holes - can't compare the 2 products they are made for different uses. Old story do the homework, use the most appropriate product labor time usually about same hours, get job done properly once and don't look back.

[Vladislav]

Alot of worthless advices on here.

WORTHFULL. Sorry for the stupid misstype.

[Vladislav]

the final result - fire wall is as smooth as the cab exterior

That's pretty interesting, thanks alot for sharing the experience.

I put Lizard Skin on my "to look for" list, will try to get a set of.

What amount of the product you spent for whole B-model cab?