2/1977 Over Drive Cruiseliner Report

[41chevy]

[mack mhe9]

Thanks

Some good info from the day.

[Outbehindthebarn]

Article refers to it as an "inner cooler". ... ..

[41chevy]

Spell check in 1977 was an eraser and a odd book called a dictionary.

[Keith Pommerening]

Drove them, did not like them.

[Outbehindthebarn]

Spell check in 1977 was an eraser and a odd book called a dictionary.

I kinda figured that was the alternative spelling until 'inter' coolers became ubiquitous on diesel engines. An individual who studies the english lexicon might have a something to say about it. . ?

Which raises a trivia question. If someone asked me who produced the first air cooled intercooler, I'd have to say Mack, right? The 285-300 Maxidyne?

Maybe in Europe they used them earlier?

Cat and Cummins were using water jacket coolers in the '60's. ...

And the E9 was the first chassis mounted air to air... anyone know of an earlier one????

[james j neiweem]

Keith what didn't you like about them.

The E-6 350 was chassis mounted air to air

[220cummins]

Is like to see the chassis mount cooler setup if anyone has pics or such.

[b61mack]

It is the same setup everybody uses today in front of the radiator.

[41chevy]

I kinda figured that was the alternative spelling until 'inter' coolers became ubiquitous on diesel engines. An individual who studies the english lexicon might have a something to say about it. . ?

Which raises a trivia question. If someone asked me who produced the first air cooled intercooler, I'd have to say Mack, right? The 285-300 Maxidyne?

Maybe in Europe they used them earlier?

Marine Diesel applications back about 1923, Mann about 1930 and US diesel applications in 1956. Ingersol -Rand did an air charge cooled air compressor in 1910.

[BC Mack]

41chevy

I think that the article is missing one page... your photobucket page6, magazine page 55

the text jumps so I assume it was not an advert page... or do I need to visit the optician? (again)

can you post it... prettypleeeeez

BC Mack

[220cummins]

It is the same setup everybody uses today in front of the radiator.

I understand that. I just wanted to see mounting, piping, and cooler style.

[Phase 1]

41chevy

I think that the article is missing one page... your photobucket page6, magazine page 55

the text jumps so I assume it was not an advert page... or do I need to visit the optician? (again)

can you post it... prettypleeeeez

BC Mack

It is all there. There are pages before the opening page - to the left.

[41chevy]

41chevy

I think that the article is missing one page... your photobucket page6, magazine page 55

the text jumps so I assume it was not an advert page... or do I need to visit the optician? (again)

can you post it... prettypleeeeez

BC Mack

Done!! it was in the Bucket but not on the same page. Thanks for the heads up!! It's there now. Paul

[Keith Pommerening]

James I will tell you my experiences:

Worked at Marvin Windows in the mid to late 70s. They bought a whole fleet of them from Min-Dak Mack in Crookston, Mn. As I recall the cabs were very good and comfortable,a good looking truck. They were equipped all Mack. They had the straight five speed transmission which were quite novel then. My biggest dislikes were the steering, speed while backing and dependability. Would turn the big steering wheel a whole bunch and the tires would angle over a little. Surely would not call it turning. When backing up to a dock, the damn thing would go like a raped ape. Had to fight the slow turning and ride the clutch so one could keep-up and not slam into the dock. Every year or so they would loose power and smoke like the old ones. Had to drop in another turbo.

Remember one time we had to drop the trailer next to the lake. The rear axle was on the way out. Were able to bob tail back to Spokane Mack, if my memory serves me right. Was able to pull into the shop under its own power. Would catch a cog every once in the while and lurch in. Probably not a smart move but not my call. Lead driver made the decision. The company was using a special differential oil, some Texas brand stuff. Think they had less trouble with a different lube.

Spent a lot of time sitting at Min-Dak Mack waiting for repairs to be made.

Well James that is my experience with the Cruiseliner. Thanks, Keith

Those big steering wheel horn buttons were engraved with "Built For Marvin Windows" on them. Thought that was a nice touch.

[BC Mack]

Done!! it was in the Bucket but not on the same page. Thanks for the heads up!! It's there now. Paul

thanks... cancelled the optician

BC Mack

[57 bcr]

Talked to guys that either loved 'em,or hated 'em. Heard that also Keith about the straight 5 speeds having a fast reverse. God help you if you had 3.65 or 3.87 rears,huh? Al

[ws721]

. Well here we go. BACK "in the day" we had a 82 Cruiseliner. It was only 5 years old. 350 Mack with the front ATAAC Fuller 10 speed, which sucked, 3.87 ratio on tall 24.5's. Truck was 185 W.B. We did install air ride cab. That truck rode so hard the windshields settled and cut the rubber on the bottom. Now I pulled a Bullrack so there are a lot of empty miles. Oh it 34,000 camelback. Fast forward to today. I run an 83 Cruiseliner that has an E9 shorter W.B. but has Neway suspension. As bad as that 82 rode this one rides to the good! I honestly say this truck rides as good as most any up to date conventinal ive run. It really is a VERY nice riding truck

[Underdog]

Seems Keith's dislikes are more likely poor specs rather than the truck itself. WS721 verifies this in his post how 2 similar trucks can be very different due to specifications.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Keith Pommerening]

Seems Keith's dislikes are more likely poor specs rather than the truck itself. WS721 verifies this in his post how 2 similar trucks can be very different due to specifications.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Thought about "poor specs rather than the truck itself" comment:

Most fleet trucks are bought by white shirts and bean counters. They get input from the repair shop. Damn drivers can't shift and tear things up. White shirt thinks; less shifting will help with that problem. Get a straight 5 speed and shift half as much. Many drivers are very loyal to their preferred brand. Drivers have a perceived hierarchy with truck brands with regards to their desirability. Where is Mack now?

Can you spec a transmission with an extra slow reverse gear? Change the diff ratio so reverse speed is manageable and truck tops out at 45 mph. Would bet most fleet rucks are spected-out by a salesman and sold to buyers who trust and believe what the salesman tells them. The 5 speed was unknown territory at that time, but the salesman said... Who would think the reverse speed was not engineered properly from the factory? Better find a salesman who knows what he is selling then keep using him. Can you spec steering speed and how much the tire will turn right or left?

Thanks, Keith

[kscarbel2]

The Cruise-Liner was a big step forward for Mack Western. It was the result of west coast truck engineers that Mack had hired. In theory, they could give us a leap forward with a true west coast design.

In the eyes of many in headquarters, the original Hayward designed/produced Cruise-Liner was an engineering disaster. The freedom given the west coast engineers was revoked, and the 2nd gen Cruise-Liner was created in Allentown (fixing many of the shortcomings). The MH Ultra-Liner restored Mack's reputation as a designer of well-engineered COEs.

The axle-mounted steering arrangement was a huge mistake. The telescoping steering shaft wore out prematurely (we sold thousands of replacements, averaging 2-3 over the life of a truck), as did the steering gears and pitman arms, becoming strong sellers in the parts department. (the output shaft splines and pitman arm splines were constantly wallowed out owing to the nature of the stupid design).

The disconnecting (ball and socket) shift linkage, specifically the gears, rails, bushings and seals in the tower, also had unacceptably short life (the average truck's shift tower was rebuilt at least 3 times over its life). It was a terrible design, whereas the shift linkage on the MH Ultra-Liner was superb.

I did prefer the original first generation Cruise-Liner instrument panel over the simplified second generation, however the center console had all the aesthetics of a plastic box. It was excessively large and the top (with the vents) frequently cracked and required replacement, a problem resolved with the second generation (It's pretty embarrassing when west coast Mack dealers have console covers hanging in their show room because they're such strong sellers).

And then you had those expensive rubber riv-nuts that retained the grille constantly falling out. Here it is year 2016 and I couldn't possibly forget the part number, 68RU29301P5, because it was a hot issue.

The Trico pantograph windshield wiper arms and their transmissions didn't hold up.

All of these issues were covered in Mack Service Bulletins.............there were more service bulletins on the WS/WL Cruise-Liner than any other single model in the history of Mack Trucks.

I found the cab was "beat" less with the 10,500lb front suspension. But dealers were accustomed to ordering the 12,000 front suspension, as they had for years with the heavier steel-cabbed F-model.

The work ethic of the people at the Hayward plant was terrible. They were "California casual" about showing up for work......one never knew how many people were coming in. The Allentown people sent out there were in constant frustration. The workers would install cab screws with their power tools until the threads were stripped. They didn't care.

The idea of setting up a west coast plant for west coast truck production was logical. However, there was a people problem. This is all why the plant was closed, and the 2nd gen Cruise-Liner was built at Macungie.......with significantly better quality.

I believe Peterbilt closed its plant at nearby Newark, California plant in 1986 for the same reason, issues with assembly quality. Caterpillar, Ford, GM and International Harvester abandoned the Bay Area as well.

[Underdog]

On 1/25/2016 at 1:01 PM, Keith Pommerening said:

Thought about "poor specs rather than the truck itself" comment:

Most fleet trucks are bought by white shirts and bean counters. They get input from the repair shop. Damn drivers can't shift and tear things up. White shirt thinks; less shifting will help with that problem. Get a straight 5 speed and shift half as much. Many drivers are very loyal to their preferred brand. Drivers have a perceived hierarchy with truck brands with regards to their desirability. Where is Mack now?

Can you spec a transmission with an extra slow reverse gear? Change the diff ratio so reverse speed is manageable and truck tops out at 45 mph. Would bet most fleet rucks are spected-out by a salesman and sold to buyers who trust and believe what the salesman tells them. The 5 speed was unknown territory at that time, but the salesman said... Who would think the reverse speed was not engineered properly from the factory? Better find a salesman who knows what he is selling then keep using him. Can you spec steering speed and how much the tire will turn right or left?

Thanks, Keith

I agree with your thinking. The rear axle ratio can make a huge difference in the way a truck performs. An easy fix for a few more pennies would be to spec a 6 speed instead of a 5 speed. Gives you a low range first and reverse for maneuvering, and your 5 speeds with a fast axle for highway use.

 

[Keith Pommerening]

The Cruise-Liner was a big step forward for Mack Western. It was the result of west coast truck engineers that Mack had hired. In theory, they could give us a leap forward with a true west coast design.

In the eyes of many in headquarters, the original Hayward designed/produced Cruise-Liner was an engineering disaster. The freedom given the west coast engineers was revoked, and the 2nd gen Cruise-Liner was created in Allentown (fixing many of the shortcomings). The MH Ultra-Liner restored Mack's reputation as a designer of well-engineered COEs.

The axle-mounted steering arrangement was a huge mistake. The telescoping steering shaft wore out prematurely, as did the steering gears and pitman arms, becoming strong sellers in the parts department.

The disconnecting shift linkage, specifically the gears, rails, bushings and seals in the tower, also had unacceptably short life. It was a terrible design, whereas the shift linkage on the MH Ultra-Liner was superb.

I did prefer the original instrument panel over the second generation, however the center console had all the aesthetics of a box. It was excessively large, a problem resolved with the second generation.

I found the cab was "beat" less with the 10,500lb front suspension. But dealers were accustomed to ordering the 12,000 front suspension, as they had with the much heavier steel-cabbed F-model.

The work ethic of the people at the Hayward plant was terrible. They were "California casual" about showing up for work......one never knew how many people were coming in. The Allentown people sent out there were in constant frustration. The workers would install cab screws with their power tools until the threads were stripped. They didn't care. The idea of setting up a west coast plant for west coast truck production was logical. However, there was a people problem. This is all why the plant was closed, and the 2nd gen Cruise-Liner was built at Macungie.......with significantly better quality.

I believe one reason Peterbilt closed its plant at nearby Newark, California plant in 1986 was for the same reason, issues with assembly quality. Caterpillar, Ford, GM and International Harvester abandoned the Bay Area as well.

WOW! You don't beat around the bush, just lay it out there. Sounds like knowledge, experience and history speaking on this one.