New Common Rail MP8

[kscarbel2]

17 hours ago, fjh said:

Well if they don't do away with the plunger  on the injector then This will not solve the current and on going cup prob;em in my opinion From what I have seen on these engines the injector is not   held down properly to start with.from what i have heard this people have been fighting this issue for years they keep doing the same thing over and over! Its Quite fitting if you think about it Dollar store injectors suit Volvo ! Wouldn't really expect them to do anything else!

 

Again just an opinion

Oil contamination remains a massive problem. Customers are running around with several quarts of diesel in their crankcase, and Volvo says "they'll stand behind it." But that of course is only during the warranty period. After that, you're hung with a prematurely worn engine because of diesel contamination. And pity the unknowing second owner who buys one of these trucks used.

[Mackpro]

Sadly I believe they are still using a plunger/rocker arm on the injector  in the new set up. This was told to me by some higher up's . The pictures I have, you cant really tell. If this is the case, we haven't really bettered ourselves and will still have injectors  jiggling around this their cup's. I hope Im wrong.

[kscarbel2]

Another reason why I dislike Delphi (maker of Volvo's fuel injection systems). They are for all intents and purposes a U.S. company, headquartered in Michigan and profiting here. But they pulled an inversion scam to avoid paying taxes in the United States, registering itself in the tax haven of Jersey, a channel island between England and France. Their act makes them criminals.........I don’t support purchasing from criminal entities.  

 

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Amid Inversion Crackdown, IRS Blesses Delphi's British Domicile

Bloomberg  /  April 14, 2016

Three days after President Barack Obama held a news conference pledging to close “loopholes” that allow U.S. corporations to claim they’re foreign for tax purposes, his Internal Revenue Service blessed one of the biggest corporate expats.

That company is Delphi Automotive Plc, a Michigan auto-parts maker that attempted to cut its tax rate by adopting a British address in 2009.

The IRS had insisted that Delphi, still run from a Detroit suburb, remained an American taxpayer.

But on April 8, an appeals panel within the tax agency sided with the company. The secret decision came to light on Wednesday, when Delphi notified its investors in a regulatory filing.

It may save the company as much as $100 million a year.

The decision comes as the Obama administration takes new and aggressive steps to stop corporate tax avoidance, particularly the corporate address changes known as inversions. On April 4, the Treasury Department issued new rules targeting the transactions, forcing the New York drugmaker Pfizer Inc. to drop plans to become Irish, and potentially crimping the tax savings from dozens of past and future inversion deals.

Unique Obstacles

The Delphi case may have presented unique obstacles, said Jerald David August, a partner at Kostelanetz & Fink LLP, a New York tax firm. The IRS may have worried that a loss in court would force it to revise a round of anti-inversion regulations from 2009, he said -- or that the case would bring unwelcome attention to the administration’s own role in Delphi’s expatriation. The company shifted its tax address as part of the fallout from General Motors Co.’s 2009 bankruptcy and bailout, which were overseen by Obama’s administration.

“The government threw in the towel when it may have had a strong case to present to a court to review,” said August, who wasn’t involved in the case. “The stakes involved in presenting this issue for full review may have had other, non-tax repercussions.”

For their part, Delphi officials had always insisted their case was strong and pledged in securities filings to “vigorously” defend their position.

On Wednesday, Delphi declined to comment beyond saying it’s “satisfied” with the IRS’s decision.

The IRS also declined to comment.

GM’s Bankruptcy

The former auto-parts arm of Detroit-based GM, Delphi changed its legal address in 2009 as part of a plan to emerge from bankruptcy protection. Under the deal, creditors including GM and a group of U.S. hedge funds purchased most of Delphi’s assets through a newly formed English partnership.

The U.S. Treasury, which had bailed out GM amid a collapse in the U.S. auto market, took part in the negotiations and authorized GM to release $1.7 billion in Treasury funds to pay for its portion of the deal.

In September 2009, just before the transaction was completed, the IRS issued a new interpretation of tax law that seemed aimed at Delphi. It said a bankruptcy reorganization that results in a U.S. company becoming foreign may not be recognized under U.S. tax law. Delphi went ahead with the deal anyway.

Official Address

When it prepared to go public in 2011, Delphi incorporated itself in Jersey, a Crown dependency in the English Channel, but retained British tax residence. Its official address is at a diesel plant and research compound in an industrial park about an hour’s train ride east of London.

Most of its top executives continue to work from the Troy, Michigan, offices that Delphi used to call its headquarters.

In 2014, the IRS, which is part of the Treasury Department, formally challenged Delphi’s foreign domicile, starting a litigation process within the agency.

In a regulatory filing in February, Delphi said that a loss in the IRS case would increase its long-term effective tax rate to about 20 percent or 22 percent, from about 17 percent. Analysts estimate Delphi will earn about $2.1 billion before taxes this year, translating to a savings of $63 million to $105 million.

[mack4ever]

hello guys.

isn`t the mp7 a common rail engine? here in europe the 11 litre or mp7 is common rail for 3 years now.not much problems here.

 

[kscarbel2]

2 hours ago, mack4ever said:

hello guys.

isn`t the mp7 a common rail engine? here in europe the 11 litre or mp7 is common rail for 3 years now.not much problems here.

 

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/44540-volvo-trucks-announces-us-market-common-rail-other-powertrain-enhancements/#comment-328779

 

[bbigrig]

It's a very strange set up. I've seen a mock up but have yet to get enough answers to how it's set up. It doesn't have a plunger at every injector. I'm told Mack won't see this engine until Volvo enjoys the roll out first. The MP10/D16 will not be getting the common rail so I was told. 

 

[kscarbel2]

The arrangement appears strange (wrong) because they're going the cheap route (and with a cheap supplier - Delphi), jury-rigging common rail onto an architecture designed for unit pump injection. Due to their cash flow problems, a new purpose-intended common rail engine architecture (e.g. DD/M-B) was ruled out this time around.

[1965]

I can understand this set up in trying to fix all the older MP engines injecter & injecter cup problems; BUT I wouldn't want this in a brand new truck; would have thought the new man from scania would have thrown this set up out

[fjh]

2 hours ago, 1965 said:

I can understand this set up in trying to fix all the older MP engines injecter & injecter cup problems; BUT I wouldn't want this in a brand new truck; would have thought the new man from scania would have thrown this set up out

Another Band aid ( Remember the old fuel line feasco on the grey engine when they changed to the dollar store fuel lines ) Aluminum foil over the line was the first patch up!

This is similar! Why totally redesign when we can patch!  cheap asses

Edited April 17, 2016 by fjh

[kscarbel2]

9 hours ago, 1965 said:

I can understand this set up in trying to fix all the older MP engines injecter & injecter cup problems; BUT I wouldn't want this in a brand new truck; would have thought the new man from scania would have thrown this set up out

Band-Aid is an apt description. Martin (Lundstedt) came into the picture too late to effect this.

[fjh]

 

Unlike the dollar store fuel line  fiasco  trucks catching fire became safety issue, No one will tell them the HAVE To fix this or else!  Its not a  safety issue yet !

It  really is to bad, the base engine Seems good . (my opinion) however  If They would  Take the time to redesign the head properly! AND TEST IT Properly! ,they would  likely have something to be proud of!  Not that pride has much to do with anyone's product any more!     $$$$$$$$$$$$ 

But Instead they continue to patch the patches!

 

 

 

 

[1965]

It really makes me think that they don't think they have a problem; just wanting to say they have a common rail system; just have to see if injecters last as long as they should; this is why they went to common rail isn't it?

[kscarbel2]

6 hours ago, 1965 said:

It really makes me think that they don't think they have a problem; just wanting to say they have a common rail system; just have to see if injecters last as long as they should; this is why they went to common rail isn't it?

Common rail, in any configuration, will allow them to reach higher injection pressures, a necessity for meeting present and future emissions regulations.

[fjh]

2 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

Common rail, in any configuration, will allow them to reach higher injection pressures, a necessity for meeting present and future emissions regulations.

As said THEY Need common Rail !However  The Volvo way the dollar store way! Keep working with what you have just patch it over and add to it!

Also as mackpro stated and is correct the injectors rattling around in the cups doesn't help things , Do away with the plunger and part of the problem will likely

Go with it .  OR  (Keep doing the same thing over and over you'll likely get the same result!)

who knows we May not  even have to use the (magic ) sealing grease they require to install them. Sorry!  I Just don't get the mentality ! Why not use some good old Mack straight forward ingenuity !

Edited April 18, 2016 by fjh

[1965]

What is the difference in the mp8 & mp10; they claim there not getting the common rail & I haven't heard of the injecter & cup problems 

[kscarbel2]

11 minutes ago, 1965 said:

What is the difference in the mp8 & mp10; they claim there not getting the common rail & I haven't heard of the injecter & cup problems 

In the US market, the D11 (MP7) and D13 (MP8) get common rail.

The US market D16 (MP10) will oddly soldier on with unit pump injection. In the global market, the D16 does has had common rail since 2014.  (http://www.volvotrucks.com/trucks/kuwait-market/en-kw/newsmedia/pressreleases/pages/pressreleases.aspx?pubid=17405)

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/44540-volvo-trucks-announces-us-market-common-rail-other-powertrain-enhancements/#comment-328779

 

[1965]

25 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

In the US market, the D11 (MP7) and D13 (MP8) get common rail.

The US market D16 (MP10) will oddly soldier on with unit pump injection. In the global market, the D16 does has had common rail since 2014.  (http://www.volvotrucks.com/trucks/kuwait-market/en-kw/newsmedia/pressreleases/pages/pressreleases.aspx?pubid=17405)

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/44540-volvo-trucks-announces-us-market-common-rail-other-powertrain-enhancements/#comment-328779

 

Thank you for all your information; but I was really wanting to know if the mp10 injecters had a different hold down system; or if the cups were different; or injecters made different; don't understand why they aren't having the same problems as the mp8 or7

[bbigrig]

Keep in mind there are a lot less MP10's on the road then other MP Engines. 

The customers I know in Ontario with Titans are not all that impressed. Not all issues are power plant related. 

On the Volvo side D16's are more common, use basically , same injector/cup setup and have issues with both fuel related components like the smaller engines. It's basically the same. They are still a small percentile of the VN's on the road but are 10x more common then MP powered Titans here. 

The common rail system coming for Mack (which may be months away) has been in use/testing  in Volvo engines Europe for almost 3 years now. 

They say it works fine. I will be waiting patiently for the proof on North American roads.  

 

[kscarbel2]

On April 12, 2016 at 9:35 PM, fjh said:

Well if they don't do away with the plunger  on the injector then This will not solve the current and on going cup prob;em in my opinion From what I have seen on these engines the injector is not   held down properly to start with.from what i have heard this people have been fighting this issue for years they keep doing the same thing over and over! Its Quite fitting if you think about it Dollar store injectors suit Volvo ! Wouldn't really expect them to do anything else!

 

Again just an opinion

One can justifiably use Delphi and Dollar Store in the same sentence.

Delphi has only ONE major heavy truck fuel injection customer in the entire world......Volvo. Delphi's lack of popularity speaks volumes about dimly their technology is viewed.

[Bullheaded]

They sure copied the Detroit DD with that one. Even quoted the exact same 50 h.p. put back to the flywheel.

Well if it works as good as my DD15's it should be good.

[james j neiweem]

How else could this common rail system have been designed for these engines if not under the valve covers. Granted fuel injection systems shouldn't leak but when they do it they shouldn't leak into the sump. Also why do the D 16 Volvos outsell the Mp 10's in Canada?

[bbigrig]

9 hours ago, james j neiweem said:

How else could this common rail system have been designed for these engines if not under the valve covers. Granted fuel injection systems shouldn't leak but when they do it they shouldn't leak into the sump. Also why do the D 16 Volvos outsell the Mp 10's in Canada?

Because you can buy a Volvo VN with a decent sized sleeper if needed powered by the 16L engine cheaper then a Mack Titan. All I ever hear customers complain about is the price point of the Titan and lack of options over any comparable competitors truck. Buy a Volvo and it still ends up in the same pocket. Lol. 

[bbigrig]

19 hours ago, Bullheaded said:

They sure copied the Detroit DD with that one. Even quoted the exact same 50 h.p. put back to the flywheel.

Well if it works as good as my DD15's it should be good.

I spoke to a DD engineer from MI a few weeks ago. The DD15's compound set up was removed a while back as most customers specing the DD15's were highway customers that didn't need the extra low end grunt. (most fleets buy 15's over 13's for resale value) Their operating range is highway running the black top. With the flywheel compounding removal they saved almost 100lbs off the engine for the customers tare weight. The engineer went on to say most customers needing heavy bottom end grunt ordered DD16's anyway. More to go wrong is all that is for what you get out of it. That and a Volvo rear gear train that already has its own issues. 

[theakerstwo]

That is what a friend of mine that still works at freightliner told me.

[kscarbel2]

2 hours ago, bbigrig said:

I spoke to a DD engineer from MI a few weeks ago. The DD15's compound set up was removed a while back as most customers specing the DD15's were highway customers that didn't need the extra low end grunt. (most fleets buy 15's over 13's for resale value) Their operating range is highway running the black top. With the flywheel compounding removal they saved almost 100lbs off the engine for the customers tare weight. The engineer went on to say most customers needing heavy bottom end grunt ordered DD16's anyway. More to go wrong is all that is for what you get out of it. That and a Volvo rear gear train that already has its own issues. 

I suspect though that this is the "company line" for removing it, to distract from the real reason......cutting cost (decontenting) where their gambling the US customer either won't notice or care, to improve profitability. Meanwhile in the global market DD15, the Mercedes-Benz badged OM472, the feature remains. 

Scania engines employ TC technology, and it works very well in enhancing performance and fuel economy.