2017 Ford Super-Duty News

[TeamsterGrrrl]

I agree that's a great combination, and I'd go for the liftable pusher or tag axle on the F850 too. The unaerodynamic Cargo might have trouble meeting EPA's fuel economy requirements though, and the price will be higher. I was thinking of a 50k miles per year application, for 100k a year the 9 liter lower revving engine would be a better choice.

[kscarbel2]

1 hour ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

I agree that's a great combination, and I'd go for the liftable pusher or tag axle on the F850 too. The unaerodynamic Cargo might have trouble meeting EPA's fuel economy requirements though, and the price will be higher. I was thinking of a 50k miles per year application, for 100k a year the 9 liter lower revving engine would be a better choice.

The Cargo tractor is actually quite aerodynamic. 

The F-600/700/850 doesn't have any aerodynamic front fascia directing frontal air around the sides of the truck, rather than turbulently passing underneath the truck and causing drag.

I can't imagine Ford even considering a proper aerodynamics package for an F-850 tractor. And designing a package around that cab and hood, really an oversized pickup by design, would be challenging.

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Speaks of fuel efficiency thru aerodynamics at 3:50

(This truck is a global spec unit - Ford-Otosan production)

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[kscarbel2]

 

[Red Horse]

On 7/20/2016 at 7:23 PM, kscarbel2 said:

Rather than buy a throw-away 6.7L Powerstroke-powered Ford F-850 6x4 tractor to run intermodal up to 100,000 miles a year, it would be more prudent of me to buy a far more advanced, durable, comfortable and economical C-2335 Ford Cargo 6x2 tractor (liftable tag axle) with the 9L 350hp Ecotorq.

Agree-but again, is there some sort of restriction that precludes Ford from bringing the FPT based engines to US??  As a practical matter I would think sergio would want as much sales revenue as he can get.

[kscarbel2]

8 hours ago, Red Horse said:

Agree-but again, is there some sort of restriction that precludes Ford from bringing the FPT based engines to US??  As a practical matter I would think sergio would want as much sales revenue as he can get.

FCA head Sergio Marchionne does need every penny he can get. Jeep is a massive profit center but it struggles to support the entire FCA empire.

If Bill Ford wanted to sell the Cargo in the U.S. with the proprietary Ford 9.0L and/or licensed Cursor 10/11/13, he could wave his wand and have the trucks set up to EPA2010 with the addition of DPFs. That's all you need to bridge over from Euro-6 spec. Existing American-owned Ford supplier Tenneco, who supplies DPFs to Scania, would be glad to help.

[Red Horse]

14 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

FCA head Sergio Marchionne does need every penny he can get. Jeep is a massive profit center but it struggles to support the entire FCA empire.

If Bill Ford wanted to sell the Cargo in the U.S. with the proprietary Ford 9.0L and/or licensed Cursor 10/11/13, he could wave his wand and have the trucks set up to EPA2010 with the addition of DPFs. That's all you need to bridge over from Euro-6 spec. Existing American-owned Ford supplier Tenneco, who supplies DPFs to Scania, would be glad to help.

With all the buzz about "One Ford" I can't believe they will not take advantage of at least some of these "sunk" engineering costs-in particular the 9 L engine.  They will never get the owner operator market like they tried to do in the old days but for sure they should be able to get a big chunk of the vocational market and in particular class 7 and the lower end of 8.

Also if there is still this "anti cab over" mentality (Ford should check with Isuzu, Paccar, Hino about what they see in us market-in particular class 5, 6), perhaps the "new" or should In say rumored replacement cab for current class 5, 6,7 cab will cover a lot of bases.  I think the movement of 550 chassis to Avon Lake is a strong signal that something is in the works cab wise.

Teamster Grrl-bounce that off your source-in particular the shift of 550 chassis to Ohio.  

[kscarbel2]

2017 Ford Super Duty Pickups to Use F-150 Aluminum Cabs

Heavy Duty Trucking  /  July 26, 2016

Ford's 2017 SuperDuty pickups and chassis-cab models will come with more engine power and torque and advanced electronic features, as previously reported, but they'll also share their cabins with the popular F-150 pickup – something not done for more than 20 years.

At a launch event in Denver on Tuesday, Ford executives said that combining the cabs yields economies of scale, because the F-150 is one of the most popular vehicles of any kind in the United States and its three cab types are produced in great volume.

The change also provides more interior room for Super Duty models, because F-150 cabs were enlarged and updated with aluminum construction several years ago. By adopting those cabs, the ’17-model F-250 through 550 SuperCabs and SuperCrews will be several inches longer than now. Also like the F-150, cargo beds, front fenders and hoods will also be aluminum.

Since the mid 1990s, SuperDuty trucks have had bodies separate from the F-150, executives explained. At first SuperDuties kept the old cabs originally used in the 1970s; then about seven years later they got new, slightly larger cabs – in steel as they’d always been – and used those through the current 2016 model year.

Going to aluminum saves as much as 750 pounds for the largest F-150, but weight savings for a SuperDuty will be 350 pounds at most compared to current models, executives said. Light-weighting could’ve been greater, but engineers added beef to the new SuperDuty frames, which are made of mild and high-strength steel.

Among other changes, each of the heavier frames got at least three extra crossmembers, and with fully boxed main rails a SuperDuty frame is now 24 times stiffer.

Ford Website - 2017 Super-Duty - https://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/2017/#

[kscarbel2]

Putting Ford’s new Super Duty to work

Fleet Owner  /  July 26, 2016

Tim Pope puts his trucks to work, and he works them hard. Whether it’s trimming trees, responding to natural disasters, clearing utility land, or building roads, Pope’s trucks work around the clock and are constantly on the go.

Pope is the CEO of Rochester, NY-based companies Terry Tree Service and Ironwood Heavy Highway. He manages more than 200 employees and buys an average of 10-15 new trucks a year depending on his companies’ workloads. Right now, Pope has approximately 100 Ford Super Duty F-350s through F-750s that tow tools, excavators, and other pieces of large equipment to job sites. He’s currently waiting on the newest addition to his fleet – an F-350 King Ranch, which is part of Ford’s new 2017 Super Duty series.

Pope spoke with Fleet Owner during Ford’s All-New 2017 Super Duty press event here in Denver. “The Super Duty is important for us because all our jobs are on the road,” Pope explained. “And to get all the supplies out to the job – it’s invaluable.”

The new Super Duty’s military-grade, aluminum-alloy body and box helps reduce weight by up to 350 lbs. compared to previous models, the company said. Doug Scott, Ford’s truck group marketing manager, said this is the OEM’s first new Super Duty model since 1999. He added that the truck is made to withstand severe-duty vocations like mining, manufacturing and highway maintenance.

“These are the people that put the highest demand on the truck,” Scott said. “These are the people that the truck can’t be down for.”

The new series has larger fuel tanks – at 48 gallons – for increased driving range. And chassis cab upgrades include:

• Front gross axle weight rating of up to 7,500 lbs.
• Gross combine weight rating of up to 40,000 lbs. and increased towing
• New powertrain options: A second-generation 6.7L Power Stroke V8 Turbo Diesel that produces 330 horsepower and 750 lbs.-ft. of torque; A 6.2L FFV V8 Gas Engine option that offers 385 hp and 430 lbs.-ft of torque.
• Larger braking system

The new Super Duty also includes up to seven high-resolution cameras that give drivers a 360-degree view, trailer reverse guidance, straight line backup guidance, jackknife warning, adaptive steering, adaptive cruise control, blind spot information system with trailer coverage, and lane departure warning, among other features.

“What sold me is [driver] safety – all the additional cameras, adaptive cruise control and extra horsepower,” Pope told Fleet Owner. After driver safety, he mentioned durability coupled with low maintenance and operating costs also top his priority list.

“When a piece of equipment is down, my crew is down,” Pope explained, noting that he has an in-house maintenance facility with five full-time mechanics. “Dependability is important.”

Ford’s new Super Duty can also function as a mobile office for busy fleets. The center console could hold a full-sized laptop and two power outlets in the cab provide up to 400 total watts of power (300 while driving), the company said. The cab is also 6-in. longer and contains a flat load floor option, and the crew cab is 3-in. longer than previous models.

“What I like from a personal standpoint is that I could work the truck real hard during the day,” Pope noted. “I could have fun with it towing my boats, and then I could wash it and take my wife out to dinner at night.”

“It’s my office,” he added. “I do a lot of business driving down the road. And I’m one to put 50,000 miles on my personal truck every year.”

Photo gallery -  http://fleetowner.com/equipment/getting-know-ford-s-new-super-duty#slide-0-field_images-196971

[kscarbel2]

Bob, so now only the F-650 and F-750 will use the steel Super-Duty cab. Certainly a massive drop in production.

Upgrades aside, doesn't that cab date back to 1999 ?

Ford could do much more if it had a purpose-designed medium-duty conventional cab, a low-cab-forward offering to combat Chevrolet/Isuzu, and a medium-duty Cargo COE.

[Red Horse]

9 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

Bob, so now only the F-650 and F-750 will use the steel Super-Duty cab. Certainly a massive drop in production.

Upgrades aside, doesn't that cab date back to 1999 ?

Ford could do much more if it had a purpose-designed medium-duty conventional cab, a low-cab-forward offering to combat Chevrolet/Isuzu, and a medium-duty Cargo COE.

Correct- the steel Super Duty cab was first used on 650/750 with the 2000 model year when they were built in the Ford plant at Cautilan (sp?) Mexico-up until 2004 model year when Bluediamond was formed and production went to JV plant at Navistar Escobedo Mex.

The fact that they have moved Super Duty 350-450-550 chassis cabs to Ohio, home of the 650/750 says to me that the rumored purpose built medium duty cab can't be too far off.  If not, they are going to ship aluminum cabs to Ohio? and still build steel cabs for 650-750?   don't think so!

[kscarbel2]

Even though F-350/450/550 production has been relocated from Louisville to Avon Lake, the article above states they will adopt the aluminum F-150 cab. That is, they will not share an upcoming new cab with the F-650/750.

I'm surprised that Ford would invest in an all-new cab, if in fact they have, for just the F-650/750 and rumors say an F-850. Only the F-650 enjoys strong sales, relatively speaking. F-750 sales are small, and F-850 sales will surely be minimal.

I'd love to see Ford get serious about medium (and heavy?) trucks again, by for starters, creating an all-new cutting edge purpose-design medium truck cab. But I don't believe its a US market priority.

The Paccar DAF LF sold thru Kenworth and Peterbilt is the highest quality medium duty in America. But it's too expensive for the US market. They can penetrate Class 7, but it's too pricey for Class 6 when you're competing with a F-650......a low-cost overgrown pickup truck with a pickup drivetrain.

[RoadwayR]

My guess?  The 650 and 750 will eventually get a version of the new 2017 aluminum Super Duty cab.  Don't think an F-850 is coming.

[kscarbel2]

50 minutes ago, RoadwayR said:

My guess?  The 650 and 750 will eventually get a version of the new 2017 aluminum Super Duty cab.  Don't think an F-850 is coming.

The 2017 Super-Duty is getting the F-150 cab.

Which is to say, the F-150 thru the F-550 will use the same (aluminum) cab.

Look above a few post for the article " 2017 Ford Super Duty Pickups to Use F-150 Aluminum Cabs ".

Bob says a new purpose-built medium truck cab (really all-new?) is rumored for the relatively low volume F-650/750.

But I suspect, having just revamped the F-650/750 for the 2016 model year coinciding with the production location move from Escobedo to Avon Lake, I think the F-650/750 will continue to use the steel Super-Duty cab for 3-5 more years. With Ford's propaganda position that the 2016MY F-650/750 was all-new (it wasn't), I expect Ford to run with it a while.

I just don't see a deep interest, a willingness to make serious investment, in medium (and heavy) U.S. market truck product. Ford's bean counters know that equal investment elsewhere, e.g. pickups and SUVs, nets a far larger return. The truck business is a labor of love, and Ford's investors are focused on returns. 

But if the chicken tax (Lyndon Johnson's Proclamation 3564) is ever finally cancelled, Ford could import Cargo medium (and heavy) trucks from existing global production facilities at minimal expense.

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I don't care for grille styling on the 2017 Super-Duty. Reminds me of a Ford Flex.

If you measure the American pickup front to rear, and consider the distance allotted for the engine compartment, distance for the cabin, and then what's left for cargo space (the truck's intended purpose in life), it couldn't be more inefficient. Snow plow users aside, it's virtually impossible by design to get much weight distribution onto the steer axle (with the best-selling extended and crew cabs).

With massive tall, vertical grilles, today's modern pickup has the dimensions and aerodynamics of a brick. In a sense, unlike other types of vehicles, pickup truck design has failed to evolve. 

 

[Red Horse]

On the subject of Ford and a new medium duty cab-and with my stockholder hat on, I say class 3-4-5 sales volumes exceed class 6, 7 and 8 combined.  In 3-4-5, Ford is currently a strong second to Dodge/Ram but those classes are going to get that much more competitive with GM back in the game with Chevy badged Isuzus about to hit dealer lots and with the GM/Navistar conventional due out in a year or so.  

With Ford abandoning a separate Super Duty cab for 250 and above, and with the movement of 450-550 chassis cabs going to Ohio from KTP,  I say that is strong evidence that we will see a new cab that will serve for sure 4,5,6, 7 and ultimately baby 8

[kscarbel2]

5 hours ago, Red Horse said:

On the subject of Ford and a new medium duty cab-and with my stockholder hat on, I say class 3-4-5 sales volumes exceed class 6, 7 and 8 combined.  In 3-4-5, Ford is currently a strong second to Dodge/Ram but those classes are going to get that much more competitive with GM back in the game with Chevy badged Isuzus about to hit dealer lots and with the GM/Navistar conventional due out in a year or so.  

With Ford abandoning a separate Super Duty cab for 250 and above, and with the movement of 450-550 chassis cabs going to Ohio from KTP,  I say that is strong evidence that we will see a new cab that will serve for sure 4,5,6, 7 and ultimately baby 8

I'm not following you Bob.

Ford has just finished spending time, money and effort to create a variant of the aluminium F-150 cab for the Super-Duty F-250 thru the F-550. Thus I expect that's the F-250/350/450/550 cab we're going to see for at least 5 years....if not far longer.

And the F-650 and F-750 retain the bought-and-paid-for steel Super-Duty cab. Advertised as "all-new for 2016", I don't expect to see any major changes for probably 5 years.

I doubt Ford would allocate funding for a new medium-duty cab anytime soon, when model year2016 is all-new, given the small number of trucks they sell. Money is allocated to where Ford gets the most return.........and that's not medium trucks. They sell them for corporate face.

Ford is building medium trucks now in the cheapest way possible, using in-house pickup truck drivetrains.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Class 7 amd 8 truck are a niche market in North America, and Ford is a high volume manufacturer that likes to keep an assembly line busy for 2 shifts cranking out a couple hundred thousand vehicles a year. That's the whole class 7 and 8 market here in a slow year, and no way are Daimler et al going to surrender that market share nor the antitrust division allow it. The Cargo exists because Ottosan Ford probably has a lower volume break even point, it can cover class 6 and below as well as class 7 and 8, and being a cabover it can compete in the million plus unit a year world market that demands cabovers.

[kscarbel2]

Ford Brazil sells Class 5 to Class 8 Cargo product, from 8 to 31 metric ton rigids, plus tractors.

Ford Otosan only sells Class 8, with rigids from 18 to 41 metric tons, plus tractors.

Having said that, all the engineering occurs at Ford Otosan, the home of Ford Truck's global design center.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Another example of how american trucking's obsession with conventional cabs is depriving us of the world's best trucks... The rest of the world is over 80% of the market and they prefer cabovers, so conventionals for our couple hundred thousand truck a year market are a low priority. We're losing on productivity too... A long conventional with big sleeper and a 16 meter (53') trailer is about 24 to 25 meters (80') long. An Australian/Euro/SA B-train doubles or truck and trailer combination that same 24-25 meters (79'-82') long would give at least 20 meters long loadspace with a cabover for at least a 25% improvement in productivity.

[Dirtymilkman]

But I don't wanna drive a cab over. 

 

 

[41chevy]

53 minutes ago, Dirtymilkman said:

But I don't wanna drive a cab over. 

 

 

You will drive what Obama and the Union tells you to  and like it.................

[kscarbel2]

3 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

But I don't wanna drive a cab over. 

When Mack sold the F-Model, Cruise-Liner and Ultra-Liner, they were our best trucks in many ways, particularly the extremely advanced Ultra-Liner, due to the spacious cab, unmatched visibility and unmatched drivetrain access.

There "is" a very good reason why the rest of the world largely uses COEs. It's a more advanced design than the conventional.

If you park a Pinnacle next to a Streamline, Actros or TGX, it will really open your mind. Come to the IAA int'l truck show in September......you'll fly home with a whole new thought process.

[Dirtymilkman]

1 hour ago, kscarbel2 said:

When Mack sold the F-Model, Cruise-Liner and Ultra-Liner, they were our best trucks in many ways, particularly the extremely advanced Ultra-Liner, due to the spacious cab, unmatched visibility and unmatched drivetrain access.

There "is" a very good reason why the rest of the world largely uses COEs. It's a more advanced design than the conventional.

If you park a Pinnacle next to a Streamline, Actros or TGX, it will really open your mind. Come to the IAA int'l truck show in September......you'll fly home with a whole new thought process.

If someone would sponsor the trip for me I'd be ecstatic to go there. I am just not sold on the coe's. I'd sure love to crawl all around them and meet people from the other side. 

[BillyT]

I admit to being an anachronistic curmudgeon, that's not in the dictionary,it's an old  f..k that liked things better 40 yrs ago! However only an idiot would ignore a reasonable safety feature like ONE rear camera.My friend,and business partner was changing a light on the back of his flatbed,and some stroke backed into him!crushed his pelvis and a few other things! They said he'd never walk again,but he was a hard headed fella and learned to walk again!Obviously the other fellow wasn't paying attention,but the camera would have saved my friend! The wiring harnesses on any modern car or big truck would put a NASA engineer in the psych ward! I call the devices on a modern car to "save us from ourselves" Incompetence mitigation devices! Defensive driving makes 90percent of these devices unnecessary! There are a few I  advocate...abs brakes, air bags,and the aforementioned rear view camera.

[RoadwayR]

On 7/28/2016 at 9:20 PM, kscarbel2 said:

I'm not following you Bob.

Ford has just finished spending time, money and effort to create a variant of the aluminium F-150 cab for the Super-Duty F-250 thru the F-550. Thus I expect that's the F-250/350/450/550 cab we're going to see for at least 5 years....if not far longer.

And the F-650 and F-750 retain the bought-and-paid-for steel Super-Duty cab. Advertised as "all-new for 2016", I don't expect to see any major changes for probably 5 years.

I doubt Ford would allocate funding for a new medium-duty cab anytime soon, when model year2016 is all-new, given the small number of trucks they sell. Money is allocated to where Ford gets the most return.........and that's not medium trucks. They sell them for corporate face.

Ford is building medium trucks now in the cheapest way possible, using in-house pickup truck drivetrains.

When Ford announced in late 2011 that they were bailing out of the 'Blue Diamond' JV with Navistar and building their own class 6/7 truck, the aluminum cab F-150 was still 3 years away.  The Super Duty had just been updated for the last time, so I see where it made sense for Ford to at least launch the new 650/750 with the basic steel Super Duty cab.  Now that the Super Duty 250-550 is changing over to the aluminum F-150 cab, I don't think it makes much sense to indefinitely continue the low volume 650/750 with the old steel cab, particularly since the 450/550 will be built in the same plant with the aluminum cab.  So, my guess is the 650/750 will probably get the aluminum F-150 cab in a few years.  I don't see near enough volume to come up with a dedicated cab for the 650/750.     

[Red Horse]

7 hours ago, RoadwayR said:

When Ford announced in late 2011 that they were bailing out of the 'Blue Diamond' JV with Navistar and building their own class 6/7 truck, the aluminum cab F-150 was still 3 years away.  The Super Duty had just been updated for the last time, so I see where it made sense for Ford to at least launch the new 650/750 with the basic steel Super Duty cab.  Now that the Super Duty 250-550 is changing over to the aluminum F-150 cab, I don't think it makes much sense to indefinitely continue the low volume 650/750 with the old steel cab, particularly since the 450/550 will be built in the same plant with the aluminum cab.  So, my guess is the 650/750 will probably get the aluminum F-150 cab in a few years.  I don't see near enough volume to come up with a dedicated cab for the 650/750.     

Agree-".... I don't see near enough volume to come up with a dedicated cab for the 650/750.     But what I'm saying is the movement of 350-450-550 to Ohio gives them enough volume to cover the cost of a new competitive cab.  Ford was a powerhouse in class 7 and vocational 8 back in "the day".  People dump all day on the "pick up" cab currently being used.  Unless they are content to run a plant at reduced capacity, they have to get competitive.  If 350-750 end up with a new purpose built cab, Ford will be back to two cab structures-like they were with 150- Super Duty, except both cabs will have been design specifically for the intended use -as opposed to a compromise.  And I say this while at the same time saying that the new Chevy/Isuzu COE will rob class 4/5 sales.  All the more reason to come up with a truly functional cab-and while you are at it Ford, come up with a 4 or 6 cylinder diesel that is far less costly to build, buy and maintain then a 400+ HP Power Stroke.