1969 International F210D

[hurstscrambler]

I appreciate that, I must say fixing up an old truck presents some different challenges than a car.  I've done a few cars to different levels, but the truck is labor intensive for sure.  If I can keep a reasonable pace, I'm hoping to be driving this thing when summer rolls around.

 On another note, I ordered more epoxy primer/paint today and realized I have used to date 8 gallons of black and 2 gallons of grey.  Ive got 4 more gallons of black and two grey.  That was kind of a shock to me, it just seems like a lot material.  I have been very happy with the product so far though it is SPI brand, $92 a gallon and you can mail-order it.  Free shipping makes it simple as well.  If anyone has any questions about products or services I used, by all means ask away.  Im learning as I go on this truck stuff.

Here are some pics of the completed repairs on the fenders, they came out ok.  Believe it or not the diamond plate pattern on both trucks are slightly different, but it is close enough.  And another pic of the completed and painted parts.  Andy

[Red Horse]

Nice work on the truck but for sure, you get an A plus for shop cleanliness!!  Keep the pix coming!

[Mike]

Yes sir! I've enjoyed watching your project and glad things have worked out very well for you. 

[james j neiweem]

Nice work so far. Growing up in Illinois I never saw a B81. but I saw plenty of these brutes

[BillyT]

Looks like most of the difficult areas to repair are in good condition that restoration is going great! The last time I did any paint and bodywork was three years ago and I was amazed at how much supplies had gone up in price! Somebody hit my quarter in a shopping center and damaged a 2' by 1' area,materials cost 100dollars!

[hurstscrambler]

Thanks for the replies guys, not too much to report.  Seeing as it is dark at 4:30 now it is difficult to get anything done.  I got most of my parts out of my buddies garage.  I really like using trailers for staging parts.  I got the cab off the frame and the frame, remaining fuel tank, engine, transmissions and front axle dismantled.  I powerwashed the engine, but it was too dark for pics.  I need to clean the engine and main transmission a couple more time as it has a lot of built up grease, oil, and dirt still on it.  

[hurstscrambler]

The engine pic is before the first cleaning.  A heavy box showed up from McMaster Carr with alot of hardware to start bolting things back onto the frame.  The rear main seal also showed up today.

I'm at a bit of a crossroad at this point.  The area under the rear main was damp with oil, it was not visibly dripping.  The 270 had 40 lbs of oil pressure and I'd estimate less than 150k miles, but it has likley had alot of idle time.  If I pull the trans, I know what is gonna happen..... snowball effect.  I'm gonna end up buying a clutch, rolling in new bearings, oil pump, etc, etc, etc....... So I will ask, what would you guys do?  Put it together and risk having to do the seal later, or just do it now?  Unfortunately I'm not made of money, so really am tempted to just put it together.  That way I can focus on doing the body work.  For the limited use this thing is gonna see I think I will be ok.  If it ends up getting put to work, I can rebuild or re-power at that point.  

On that note, do the later big cam engines use the same mounts as the small cam?  I'd also be interested in getting a repair manual for the 270 if they are available, anyone know of a source?  Thanks, Andy

[carlotpilot]

not to rattle you but you have that engine sitting on the very weakest point of the oil pan .   I would very gingerely pick it back up and move your blocking towad the front under the well part

[hurstscrambler]

Thanks for the heads up, that picture was taken immediately after fighting the motor out.  It got cribbed up a little differently after I was able to reclaim some of the blocking from the frame.  I will check it out a little closer tomorrow as well.  Andy

[carlotpilot]

48 minutes ago, hurstscrambler said:

Thanks for the heads up, that picture was taken immediately after fighting the motor out.  It got cribbed up a little differently after I was able to reclaim some of the blocking from the frame.  I will check it out a little closer tomorrow as well.  Andy

 in answer to other questions  the 855 cid cummins  is basiclly the same inside throughout the hp range .find a shop manual that covers 855 engines  and that should give you most of the info you need

[gearhead204]

I have no knowledge of different mounts on a B.C.  as far as a book look on ebay for an 855 cummins service manual the 855 book should cover all configurations, as far as the rear main I myself would do it .Now this would be a good time to also check the input shaft for second clutch spline wear, if you have notable wear you could have the bell housing machined at this time to retrue the housing.

Carlot: I guess we were posting answers at the same time 

[carlotpilot]

18 hours ago, gearhead204 said:

I have no knowledge of different mounts on a B.C.  as far as a book look on ebay for an 855 cummins service manual the 855 book should cover all configurations, as far as the rear main I myself would do it .Now this would be a good time to also check the input shaft for second clutch spline wear, if you have notable wear you could have the bell housing machined at this time to retrue the housing.

Carlot: I guess we were posting answers at the same time 

Could be. How are things going up there after all the excitement of the past spring and summer?

[hurstscrambler]

I spent a couple hours de-greaseing, washing, and thinking.  I guess it is kinda of a no brainier to do the seal now so hopefully I will pull it apart this weekend. I will definitely check the input shaft seal as well.  How do you check the shaft wear, just a visual inspection or is there a measurement?  

[gearhead204]

just by eye, if the amount of input wear is greater where the rear most clutch disc hub rides  the bell housing may need to be refaced. Having a single counter shaft trans hanging on the back should improve your odds of things being ok. It was a common issue with twin counter shaft trans. especially  if the buggy spring was left off after trans work, as the trans weight would cantilever onto the bell housing.  

[carlotpilot]

small cam and  big cam mounts will interchange  since both use the flywheel housing for rear mounts. the front has only two different setups one being a v shape that bolts on front of eng. and a round yoke type for engines that are tilted such as louisville fords

[Maddog13407]

do it while your there. hell of a lot easier now than workin between two frame rails. then paint it all up pretty and change whatever hoses need to be changed now. like I said a lot easier when you can walk around it rather than between the frame or workin over the fenders or tires. I myself would probably make a stand for the other engine and stick it in the corner of the shop, it doesn't eat anything.

[fxfymn]

I have had many of the same issues with a truck I did that I never had the chance to run a lot before I started on it. If you have the cash you will never regret replacing all of the oil sealing gaskets and all of the rubber parts you can easily access now. At the very least I would do the main seal and the clutch throw out bearing. 

I would also consider doing the water pump while it is so easy to get to. 

One of the big differences between a working truck and a hobby rig is that you will have a very nice finish on the truck and every time you take it down to do a major repair you will take the chance of screwing up your finish work. The more you can do now to keep you from having to tear it apart in the near future the happier you will be. Plus when you are done you want to take it out to shows and not be spending all of your time working on it.

[hurstscrambler]

All good points, I'm gonna try to get the trans pulled off the engine soon.  I didn't get any pics but I bolted some brackets to the frame.  I had to drill about a dozen holes in the frame because of variations in the two trucks.  I'm closing in on those issues though.  I m gonna try to continue working on that tomorrow depending on the weather.  Thanks, Andy

[hurstscrambler]

Well, I wasn't able to do anything to the engine as I spent most of today raking leaves, but I spent a couple hours on the frame.  I obviously threw one of the fenders on and wow what a height difference between the suspension under the grey truck vs the red truck.  The overall height of the truck appears to be a solid foot higher.  I got the air tank in place, and you can see in the picture some of the frame differences.  Thanks, Andy

[41chevy]

Put 1/2 a ton plus of engine and add a few hundred pounds of radiator, fluids and misc doodads , the height will come down a mite.   Looks great.    Paul

[hurstscrambler]

Thanks Paul, I got some components off the engine and was finally able to pull the trans off the engine.  I have some questions that I hope you guys can help with.  

First off the the leak the the rear of the engine appears to be the pilot bearing seal had failed and been over-greased.  I'm fairly certain the clutch is the one the truck was born with.  The input shaft has no wear that I can see.  I included some pictures.  Where should I be going for these parts, the local truck center doesn't seem to want to help me much.  How difficult is changing the input shaft seal?  I know it looks like a mess, but it really does seem like heavy grease, not gear oil or engine oil.  Andy

[hurstscrambler]

I m planning on ordering a water pump as well, I'm wondering if there is some sort of wear item that should be changed in the front engine mount as well.  I'd like to get all this stuff ordered tomorrow.  I was also thinking of using the spin on coolant filter off of the 250 on the 270, no reason not too that I can see.  Just need to find it a place to live.  Andy

[41chevy]

It's a "lip " style seal with the clutch cross shaft out it would be about the same as doing an  Rear Axle or Pinion Seal seal on a automotive rear. Clean it up well, see if there is a part number visible on the seal and try to get it before you pull the old seal. I drill a 1/8 hole and a small slide hammer to pop them out.   Use a seal installation tool to drive it in if possible. Be sure to grease the lip on the seal before you install it so it doesn't run dry on first use and eat the seal.  Not a big job just time.

Clutch assembly is all rebuild-able, some one should know who and where. Maybe Larry (Freightrain)

That said are you sure it's the pilot bearing seal and not the grease hose going into it? I'd clean it up and pump some grease into it to see if it's the hose or seal.   Paul

[Maddog13407]

looks like a standard Eaton double disk clutch to me. don't know whats around you but here in upstate Ny we have a place called Heavy Duty Parts. they are nationwide. that's where we get most of out clutches and transmissions rebuilt for work.

[fxfymn]

If all else fails you can have the clutch and the water pump rebuilt. I have used Automotive Manufacturer's in Richmond, VA and they do a good job at a reasonable price. 

2400 N Lombardy St
Richmond, VA 23220

804-321-6861

 

A friend uses Fort Wayne Clutch in Fort Wayne, IN and is very happy with their work.

 

What Paul said about the seal and I also wrap a piece of tape over the splines and the shoulder where the splines end when I slide the seal on to keep it from snagging.

 

I would replace the throw out bearing as well. Pretty cheap and it is a major PIA to get to if it is bad when you put it all back together.