Titan or CHU Pinnacle for a lowboy tractor?

[1965]

My truck is 12 model CHU had 204,000 when I bought it; has 244,000 on it now; I've put injectors in it; close to $5,000 probably & did it myself (tools & parts); & 2 nox sensors $1,000; adds up quick!!!

really like it except for the emission crap

its 505c, 18sp maxi torque 398 rears; 13,220 front axle, 44 rear, 225wb, 125 fuel on driver side & 50 on passenger & 50 gal Hyd tank, headache rack, & it weighs right at 21,000lbs. full of fuel

really wished I'd bought new & got exactly like I wanted & warranty; can't give them away now!!

[Tuffguy707]

I am going new because I want to get everything I want. Plus I want the warranty. 

[Dirtymilkman]

I have a 2015 Titan set up as a milk truck. I've always had CL's before this so I have experience with those too. I also have lighter ch's so I know how those are. Comparing a Titan to a set forward CH is apples to oranges. Titans are made for heavy, uneven ground, extreme conditions. Mine grosses 91,000 lbs and does tons of turning and going in and out of steep approaches. A CH is not made for that. As for pulling a lowboy, a set forward CH with 14,300 front and air ride would be perfect. Unless you're pulling in and out of a lot of pits or forests. My Titan was 9,000 dollars more than a granite spec'd the same except with an mp8. 

As for my Titan, I have 140,000 miles on it. I have had zero emissions issues, zero injector issues and no other issues. Only problem so far it was burning oil. Turns out when the Swedes assembled my engine, they lined all the piston ring grooves up. There was no begging to fix it or complaining, I told them what it was doing and they overhauled it from top to bottom. Even spun new bearings in. As for the turning radius, the titan turns WAY shorter than my CL's with a shorter wheelbase. It's a very nimble truck for its size.  Mine is mp10, Mack 18spd, Mack 3.73 rears.

I saw the parts in an m drive, they don't need to be triple countershaft, they're designed to be single countershaft, the bearings in them are huge. I wouldn't be afraid of one. 

Logtruckman makes a good point. The new era salesmen are worthless. 

[kscarbel2]

There are indeed "very" few truck salesman left. Today, there are just salesman who sell trucks. What a difference years of experience used to make for the customer.

 

[Oso2]

CXU's turn very, very well. They are light years improved from the 90's CH that I drove. I've never driven a modern CH, but I would imagine that they'd have the same wheel cut as a modern CXU.

But your local dealer should be able to provide you with a turning radius as part of spec'ing a truck.

[Tuffguy707]

10 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

I have a 2015 Titan set up as a milk truck. I've always had CL's before this so I have experience with those too. I also have lighter ch's so I know how those are. Comparing a Titan to a set forward CH is apples to oranges. Titans are made for heavy, uneven ground, extreme conditions. Mine grosses 91,000 lbs and does tons of turning and going in and out of steep approaches. A CH is not made for that. As for pulling a lowboy, a set forward CH with 14,300 front and air ride would be perfect. Unless you're pulling in and out of a lot of pits or forests. My Titan was 9,000 dollars more than a granite spec'd the same except with an mp8. 

As for my Titan, I have 140,000 miles on it. I have had zero emissions issues, zero injector issues and no other issues. Only problem so far it was burning oil. Turns out when the Swedes assembled my engine, they lined all the piston ring grooves up. There was no begging to fix it or complaining, I told them what it was doing and they overhauled it from top to bottom. Even spun new bearings in. As for the turning radius, the titan turns WAY shorter than my CL's with a shorter wheelbase. It's a very nimble truck for its size.  Mine is mp10, Mack 18spd, Mack 3.73 rears.

I saw the parts in an m drive, they don't need to be triple countershaft, they're designed to be single countershaft, the bearings in them are huge. I wouldn't be afraid of one. 

Logtruckman makes a good point. The new era salesmen are worthless. 

Thank you. This is what I wanted to hear. For what I will be hauling I want a heavy enough truck that I am not dealing with issues due to the weight that will be behind it. Eventually I will move up in weight for what I haul but starting out, getting the permits in Ohio for over 125klbs is just to tough. I want a truck that when I do bump up the weights I haul will be able to handle it. 

 

I am leaning toward the CHU but the Titan is not out of the question yet. I have time so I am not in a big hurry to make a decision. I just wish I could find a salesman who knew more than me. Neither of my dealers have a clue and I am starting to get frustrated. I may travel over to PA. and talk to one of their dealers as I have heard good things about a couple of the dealers over there. 

[kscarbel2]

7 minutes ago, Tuffguy707 said:

Thank you. This is what I wanted to hear. For what I will be hauling I want a heavy enough truck that I am not dealing with issues due to the weight that will be behind it. Eventually I will move up in weight for what I haul but starting out, getting the permits in Ohio for over 125klbs is just to tough. I want a truck that when I do bump up the weights I haul will be able to handle it. 

 

I am leaning toward the CHU but the Titan is not out of the question yet. I have time so I am not in a big hurry to make a decision. I just wish I could find a salesman who knew more than me. Neither of my dealers have a clue and I am starting to get frustrated. I may travel over to PA. and talk to one of their dealers as I have heard good things about a couple of the dealers over there. 

It seems that what I've said is not what you want to hear, but I will repeat, for a low-boy tractor application, you should give serious thought to a Granite tractor. In that application, it combines form with function.

Why don't you talk with the folks at Watts, or the Worldwide Equipment representative (Jim Toussaint) who also recommended a Granite (on page 2).

[Dirtymilkman]

Salesmen now just want to sell fleets of trucks. The cheapest package they can put together to get the sale. There's so many options on a truck these days. My last two I ordered, the salesman and I took two days and over 5 hours each day to go through everything. He's old school Mack, he sold Mack trucks to my dad, he eats, breathes, sleeps and shits Mack. He gives you his home number in case you have trouble on a weekend and he'll come in to get you parts or a truck. That's a dieing breed. 

[Tuffguy707]

1 minute ago, Dirtymilkman said:

Salesmen now just want to sell fleets of trucks. The cheapest package they can put together to get the sale. There's so many options on a truck these days. My last two I ordered, the salesman and I took two days and over 5 hours each day to go through everything. He's old school Mack, he sold Mack trucks to my dad, he eats, breathes, sleeps and shits Mack. He gives you his home number in case you have trouble on a weekend and he'll come in to get you parts or a truck. That's a dieing breed. 

Where is this at? This is how a salesman/dealership should be. It should always be there to take care of a customer no matter what the problem or question you might have. It is good to see you have a good one.

[david wild]

I don't understand why people wanting to haul heavy weight want a truck that will do a 100 miles a hour. your either stupid or have never been to a truck wreck with a big load involved, when things go bad with a heavy load they go really bad, most states limit the speed OD loads can go, so why gear to go any faster, kinda like buying 55 ton trailers that will never see 55 tons legally. and if your hauling over your permitted weight than your no better than your local hood stealing hubcaps, your both breaking the law. And no we never haul above our permitted weight, hard to explain to somebody we killed their loved one so we could save a buck.

[blackdog2]

The hp keep going up the brakes haven't change much in the last 30 years other  than anti-lock the faster the bigger accidents They go faster- longer coffee breaks

[david wild]

Went to ID couple weeks ago left with some trucks in OH. they pass me 4 or 5 times a day, every day, got to ID. unloaded started heading to Salt Lake, passed the same bunch still heading west, my truck is set to run perfect at 62 in high and pretty good a little under 55 with a big load, and yet those guys running 70 to 80 are behind me ?????? maybe it's the flip flops and pj bottoms ??? oh and the dreads.

[Oso2]

5 hours ago, Tuffguy707 said:

Thank you. This is what I wanted to hear. For what I will be hauling I want a heavy enough truck that I am not dealing with issues due to the weight that will be behind it. Eventually I will move up in weight for what I haul but starting out, getting the permits in Ohio for over 125klbs is just to tough. I want a truck that when I do bump up the weights I haul will be able to handle it. 

That's what you wanted to hear - but that sounds more emotional than rational to me. Maybe I'm wrong. (Hey, we all want our favorite truck  - no shame there.)

Think about proven specs, and again, look at the conditions you are operating under. Southern Ohio just isn't as hilly as Vermont. I've stated that Ontario is a good comparison. And around here, two of the players in the heavy haul/oversize/low boy field are GM Smith and Active Transport. And guess what they run? Yup, Pinnacles. And at greater weights than your operation. And they will run across the continent.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/bluejaysfan/Freight%20Hauler%20Fleets%20-/ACTIVE%20TRANSPORT/activetransporttractorline1-22-12.jpg~original

https://www.gm-smith.com/

Also, around here we have waste haulers who pin to 5 axle walking floors who always gross out at 139,000lbs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dumps are usually muddy, difficult spots. JE Culp is one fleet that runs around here; and they don't run Titans. Verspeeten is another, and they run Volvos with the D13 (which is a repainted MP8). The point that I'm trying to make: the only people who need and run Titans are loggers in Northern Ontario, where conditions are truly rough.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2016 by Oso2

[Jarhead Enterprises]

If you go with a horsepower rating below 460hp you will save yourself a lot of money on purchased protection coverages regardless of engine manufacturers. I recommend the Mack Plan 2 Engine / Mack EATS Engine Exhaust After Treatment System Purchased Coverage Protection matched to the time/miles terms of your particular operations. If you want to build and order a custom truck and your sales guy can't or won't help you and go over the specifications line by line until you are happy and satisfied get another sales guy. It is a lot easier to fix problems and address concerns when they are on paper than once they become steel.

I personally am not a sales guy - I AM a truck guy, a Mack guy and a former fleet maintenance executive that sells trucks. My only goal with a customer is to listen to them, learn about what they want to do with the truck, understand their business and the environment the truck will be operating and then work with the customer to custom engineer and specify a unit that fits exactly what they want to do. You do this as a sales person and you will get repeat and referral business that makes both your customers and you successful. Guys in it for a quick sales don't last especially if you are selling Mack. 1 truck or 100 trucks - the process is the same.

[Tuffguy707]

1 hour ago, david wild said:

I don't understand why people wanting to haul heavy weight want a truck that will do a 100 miles a hour. your either stupid or have never been to a truck wreck with a big load involved, when things go bad with a heavy load they go really bad, most states limit the speed OD loads can go, so why gear to go any faster, kinda like buying 55 ton trailers that will never see 55 tons legally. and if your hauling over your permitted weight than your no better than your local hood stealing hubcaps, your both breaking the law. And no we never haul above our permitted weight, hard to explain to somebody we killed their loved one so we could save a buck.

I don't want a tuck that will run 100 mph I want a truck that will run the speed limit empty which is 70 right now in Ohio. With a permit We are not legally allowed to run over 55mph which I rarely do. I might drift up to 60 down hill or if I see a open flat highway but for someone like myself who hauls heavy loads and who has seen what can see what can happen I think peole are nuts for going faster then that with 80k or more . I think the worse thing i have ever done illegally knowing what I was doing is I went off route a few months ago to avoid a construction area that my load would not have fit through. It was 12'6" wide and the road was 12 between the barriers. It didn't matter at i got pulled over and it cost me. 

[Tuffguy707]

14 minutes ago, Jarhead Enterprises said:

If you go with a horsepower rating below 460hp you will save yourself a lot of money on purchased protection coverages regardless of engine manufacturers. I recommend the Mack Plan 2 Engine / Mack EATS Engine Exhaust After Treatment System Purchased Coverage Protection matched to the time/miles terms of your particular operations. If you want to build and order a custom truck and your sales guy can't or won't help you and go over the specifications line by line until you are happy and satisfied get another sales guy. It is a lot easier to fix problems and address concerns when they are on paper than once they become steel.

I personally am not a sales guy - I AM a truck guy, a Mack guy and a former fleet maintenance executive that sells trucks. My only goal with a customer is to listen to them, learn about what they want to do with the truck, understand their business and the environment the truck will be operating and then work with the customer to custom engineer and specify a unit that fits exactly what they want to do. You do this as a sales person and you will get repeat and referral business that makes both your customers and you successful. Guys in it for a quick sales don't last especially if you are selling Mack. 1 truck or 100 trucks - the process is the same.

I am worried about getting a underpowered truck as I have had 460's since 2000 in my Macks and even those at times border being underpowered but I feel some of that is due to gearing. I personally do not want anything under 460hp for what I plan on hauling and like I mentioned I want to have the right truck in case i step up my weights in the future so I do not have to buy another truck for the lowboy. Although that being said someday if I do decide to grow and perchance another truck for my business I can always bump the power up on that truck for the heavier loads and use this truck for the lighter loads. 

 

That is the problem with most salesman ( at least it seems around here) they only care about the sale. They do not know anything about what they are selling and they don't seem to cre about what the customer wants they just want to move trucks. It sounds like you should be a sales guy and if you where I would definitely consider buying from you as you seem to be knowledgeable with the trucks and you care about what people want. 

Thank you.

[Jarhead Enterprises]

I personally handle 7 local fleet accounts - 5 (4 Mack, 1 Volvo) over the road and two vocational (Both Mack). WE have a great 30 year MACK salesman in Knoxville. He is old school and handles the majority of our Mack customers - together we would both help you if you want. 865-399-1679

[Tuffguy707]

50 minutes ago, Jarhead Enterprises said:

I personally handle 7 local fleet accounts - 5 (4 Mack, 1 Volvo) over the road and two vocational (Both Mack). WE have a great 30 year MACK salesman in Knoxville. He is old school and handles the majority of our Mack customers - together we would both help you if you want. 865-399-1679

Thank you. 

[david wild]

We have used Mack 460s to haul 13 axle trailers coast to coast and we all ways seem to be there with the big guys with their large cats, our fuel consumption is less, tire wear, driveline problems and yes we go up hills a little slower but our operating costs are lower. The RD888 was the best truck ever built for climbing up and down a mountain, gearing is more important than engine size, if you really want some cool stuff go to worldwide and get a set of DT hubs order your truck with non Mack rears as they won't fit and get a 2 speed aux trans, which I would get no matter what.  We built some Western Stars only because we were having a difficult time getting other manufactures to build what we wanted,  Big cooling systems, Aux trans, real hoses not plastic (they melt) heavy drivelines, we sent our WS to Worldwide for DT hubs, The bigger the load, the slower you go, the more you make, or cheap freight moves fast.  

[Dirtymilkman]

My sales guy is Jake at Nuss in St cloud, MN. 

[Dirtymilkman]

8 hours ago, david wild said:

I don't understand why people wanting to haul heavy weight want a truck that will do a 100 miles a hour. your either stupid or have never been to a truck wreck with a big load involved, when things go bad with a heavy load they go really bad, most states limit the speed OD loads can go, so why gear to go any faster, kinda like buying 55 ton trailers that will never see 55 tons legally. and if your hauling over your permitted weight than your no better than your local hood stealing hubcaps, your both breaking the law. And no we never haul above our permitted weight, hard to explain to somebody we killed their loved one so we could save a buck.

You don't gear a truck up because you wanna run 100mph. You gear it to fit the power band of the engine. The mp10 loves 1100 to 1400 rpm. 

[1965]

8 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

 Nuss in St cloud, MN. 

I talked to a man there in sales bout a used truck; can't remember name; but super nice & sent information I wanted & checked back with me; they had a very detailed description of truck; from like had new front tires but kingpins were worn out because of tire wear; 

most places your lucky if someone is there & if they even call you back; most seem to be clueless

[1965]

Didn't mean to mislead you on gear selection; just I don't always pull RGN's all the time; lot of van & pretty long trips & at 70mph 398 rears turns 15 to 1600rpm's & fuel mileage isn't very good;

don't think you have to run wide open all the time

[fjh]

On 5/11/2016 at 3:50 PM, Tuffguy707 said:

I am looking for a new or newer truck. i wish they still made the CL-700 with the Cummins.

I Wish They  still Made the CL with the V8!

[Outback]

I'm from down under and run a couple of mp10 Titans with mdrive. Had no problems with the mdrive as yet with weights up to 140t. Would like one of the new 13 or 14 speed ones with the extra crawler gears. I run 4.1 diff ratio. Mdrive is single overdrive and ratios are similar to the old 12 speed Mack boxes. Pulling triple road trains we use the mdrive in HD mode all the time. Economy mode changes too low and performance over revs and uses every gear. HD mode changes nicely and still skips lower gears when empty or not needed. Oldest truck had done approx 600k km without missing a beat. Mp10 has been great too but as ours is 685 hp and SCR only so hard to compare with yours