What happened to COAL

[HeavyGunner]

With all these regulations crippling the US how are we to continue even status quo needed for power when hydroelectric plants, coal plants, nuclear plants and in some cases gas powered plants are all being outlawed?

[41chevy]

35 minutes ago, HeavyGunner said:

With all these regulations crippling the US how are we to continue even status quo needed for power when hydroelectric plants, coal plants, nuclear plants and in some cases gas powered plants are all being outlawed?

Nuke is only a few percent now due to not allowing recertification. Hydro-Electric is only 6% or less as Billy Clinton signed legislation to remove the dams and restore rivers for fish and natural restoration of the flow

 

March 20, 1996|KIM MURPHY | TIMES STAFF WRITER

 

SEATTLE —Stepping into a heated conflict that has pitted the seasonally spawning fish against the hydroelectric dams that power most of the Northwest, the administration included the removal of all fish-impeding dams as a major environmental initiative in the 1997 budget unveiled Tuesday.

The plan to remove the dams, if it clears spending opposition in the Republican-led Congress, would provide one of the first major precedents for dam removal to protect fish runs and would restore a pristine river system.

"The significance is huge. For President Clinton to take funding on this and make it a national priority is a recognition of the environmental benefits" said Shawn Cantrell of the Friends of the Earth, who called the agreement to restore the rivers  " a national environmental victory"

[Underdog]

No point in trying to argue with people that create their own "facts"...

The tree huggers, liberals, labor unions and the Obama administration has been creating "facts" for years.

[Gmerrill0516]

On  cold days in New England, we can't produce power with natural gas turbines as there isn't enough gas supply to make electricity AND heat houses and businesses at the same time.  While there are bountiful reserves in PA, there is as of yet now way to get it here...and the libs fight every pipeline project that comes up like it will kill old ladies and children if it goes in...Keep drinking the cool aid.

[Brocky]

Hydro is probably the cheapest cleanest most dependable power generation there is.. And the dams also help in flood control.

I am sure that the kayakers do not need any electricity in their homes to operate anything?? especially if their house is under water!!

Edited May 19, 2016 by Brocky

[Quickfarms]

Here in CA we are using clean burning wood to keep warm.

[david wild]

GA  has been declared not viable for wind power, no wind ?? lotsa sun though but enough to power the carpet mills and saw mills or the drug dealers in ATL. 

Any one notice the union not out pushing Clinton, was in Cin. OH. teamsters said they are voting for Trump  ???

I guess if you tell someone that wind works long enough it must be true, still does not work without taxpayer support.

France just cancelled there no Coal plants plan and are going ahead with new Coal plant, can not resist the price. Obama pissed at France

 

 

 

 

 

 

[david wild]

About Hydro  seen the Hoover Dam ??? need I say more.

[41chevy]

17 hours ago, Underdog said:

The tree huggers, liberals, labor unions and the Obama administration has been creating "facts" for years.

Are you saying that people like Al Gore .  .  . Mr Greenie, telling us we need to cut our "carbon footprint to next to nothing" and that a single plumbers candle can warm an entire house, is lying??  ( as his motorcade goes to his helicopter, that goes to the airport to his private 747 is a hypocrite and may have skewed the facts to make money?)

[Underdog]

Are you saying that people like Al Gore .  .  . Mr Greenie, telling us we need to cut our "carbon footprint to next to nothing" and that a single plumbers candle can warm an entire house, is lying??  ( as his motorcade goes to his helicopter, that goes to the airport to his private 747 is a hypocrite and may have skewed the facts to make money?)

I don't recall seeing any plumbers candles at Al Gore's house except for the ones to hook up the heated swimming pool LOL

[Keith Pommerening]

Now correct me if I am wrong...  Way back in my memory I recall that there was a big hullaboo about Slick Willie selling the rights to our best quality, cleanest burning coal to overseas countries or donors.   Anybody have a similar recollection, and if so, can you shed more light on what that was all about?  Thanks,  Keith

 

 

If I don't catch hell, I never get any attention!

 

[41chevy]

23 hours ago, Keith Pommerening said:

Now correct me if I am wrong...  Way back in my memory I recall that there was a big hullaboo about Slick Willie selling the rights to our best quality, cleanest burning coal to overseas countries or donors.   Anybody have a similar recollection, and if so, can you shed more light on what that was all about?  Thanks,  Keith

 

President Clinton signed the Executive Order designating 1.7 million acres of land in southwest Utah as the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, his action placed the area off limits to mineral extraction and development.

The New York Times reported that the monument encloses the largest coal field in the nation, the Kaiparowitz Plateau, which contains at least 7 billion tons of coal worth over $1 TRILLION in  early 1990's dollars.

Kentucky-based company Andalux Resources, which holds leases on 3,400 acres in the area, was planning to open a huge operation (underground, not strip mining) that would have generated 1,000 jobs, $1 million in annual revenue for Kane County, and at least $10 million a year in state and federal taxes, according to the New York Times. Folks living in the area wore black arm bands the day of the signing - but Clinton didn't see them. He chose to make his announcement in a neighboring state. WHY?
An obvious explanation is he was hoping to secure the environmentalist vote. Though that was no doubt part of his reasoning, he had surely achieved such an objective earlier this summer when he declared the huge area outside Yellowstone National Park a World Heritage Area. Let'' look further.
In the weeks prior to the past election, revelations surfaced almost daily regarding donations from foreign sources to the Democratic Party and Clinton's past campaigns. At the center of the controversy was another set of people to whom Clinton owed a few big favors too: the Lippo Group, a powerful $5 billion Indonesian conglomerate, founded and owned by the Riady family who, it turned out, had raised and funneled tens of millions of dollars into theClinton campaign coffers.

What is so special about the coal at Kaiporowitz Plateau? It is a kind of coal that is not found "everywhere." It is very low sulfur, low ash - hence, low polluting -coal, the kind in high demand for power plants. There are only 3 known places it is found, Utah, Columbia and the LIPPO Groups coal fields of South Kalimantan (Borneo), Indonesia.   400.000 metric tons of this "clean coal" will be imported in 1994 into the U.S. by the Entergy Group of Little Rock, Arkansa, in partnership with the Lippo Group.

Edited May 20, 2016 by 41chevy

[david wild]

YES overseas buyers are buying up all the closed coal mines, go figure. I guess that does not make sense to a liberal, why would some one from some place else need to buy coal mines unless they needed more coal ???? and why would they need more coal if they were not building more coal plants,  and you need more proof of what Obama has done to us ??????  and you do know where babies come from ?? right.

[BC Mack]

You want to see American coal?

we got mountains of it in Vancouver Canada.... BNSF train it up here and we load it in ships going to Asia, seems your ports won't handle it... politics?, trade?, nafta???? the dust is a big issue here.

BC Mack

[j hancock]

Government picking winners and losers.

[41chevy]

34 minutes ago, j hancock said:

Government picking winners and losers.

More like donations, pay offs picking our politicians and foreign investors making our laws.

[Keith Pommerening]

It just keeps getting better and better.  Ready for Clinton round II.

[41chevy]

On 5/20/2016 at 9:30 PM, j hancock said:

Government picking winners and losers.

Government nose pickers and boozers

[m16ty]

On 5/17/2016 at 8:57 PM, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Wind now beats coal and natural gas for cost, we only need natural gas for baseload backup. Coal will never make a comeback- It costs more to build a new coal plant than a natural gas plant, and wind is even cheaper. Coal fueled locomotives were scrapped over a half century ago because they couldn't respond quickly to load demands and needed too much maintenance. Coal fired power plants have the same problems and I'm surprised they've lasted as long as they have.

There is nothing in common with a coal fired steam locomotive and coal fired power plants. Power plants use steam turbines which are much more efficient than piston engines that locomotives use. They in no way have the same problems that steam locomotives have and to say that is just being ignorant of the process. Be it coal, natural gas, or nuclear, they all use steam turbines to produce electricity. The only difference is how they heat the water. 

If coal is so expensive and in-efficient, why not let the market decide instead of the government putting them out of business? If coal is so costly, it would go away on it's own without government intervention. You are right that it is very, very costly to build a new coal plant. The reason is the government has put such strict regulations that can't possibly be met and be profitable. Just another example of overreaching government interference with the free market.   

Obama and Hillary both have said that they want to but the coal industry out of business, I don't know why people just don't take them for their word. The same people that say either one would never lie, say they lie when you mention stuff like this. 

 

[41chevy]

12 hours ago, m16ty said:

There is nothing in common with a coal fired steam locomotive and coal fired power plants. Power plants use steam turbines which are much more efficient than piston engines that locomotives use. They in no way have the same problems that steam locomotives have and to say that is just being ignorant of the process. Be it coal, natural gas, or nuclear, they all use steam turbines to produce electricity. The only difference is how they heat the water. 

If coal is so expensive and in-efficient, why not let the market decide instead of the government putting them out of business? If coal is so costly, it would go away on it's own without government intervention. You are right that it is very, very costly to build a new coal plant. The reason is the government has put such strict regulations that can't possibly be met and be profitable. Just another example of overreaching government interference with the free market.   

Obama and Hillary both have said that they want to but the coal industry out of business, I don't know why people just don't take them for their word. The same people that say either one would never lie, say they lie when you mention stuff like this. 

 

Peabody Energy is the world's largest private-sector coal company and a Fortune 500 company. Their production is located in the best mining regions in the United States and Australia, and we serve customers in some 25 countries on six continents, and are global leaders in sustainable mining, energy access and clean coal solutions. Due to Federal EPA, BLM and U.N. regulations, they filed for Chapter 11 in April of this year in this country. The mines and facilities in the U.S. will closed down. 

In the United States alone, as of December 31, 2015, the Company holds an estimated 5.5 billion tons of proven and probable coal reserves, and the Company had U.S. coal sales of approximately 180 million tons.

Facts greenies omit..

One in three Americans qualify for energy assistance. Six in 10 Americans say a monthly increase of as little as $20 in utility bills would create hardship. In the last decade, the cost of energy as a percentage of pre-tax income has nearly doubled for the middle class.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency / UN’s  greenhouse gas / Carbon Tax rules for coal and natural gas power plants will only make this situation worse, causing consumer power bills to soar up to 80%.  

The EPA's proposal for new coal plants is similar to using an electric car to set an emissions standard for new vehicles to replace the combustion engine. Their actions go beyond the law by mandating carbon capture technology that is promising for the future, though not yet commercially available .

Happy yet missy?

 

https://mscusppegrs01.blob.core.windows.net/mmfiles/sitemedia/ch11/first%20day%20declaration.pdf

[57 bcr]

Obummer  said in an interview  prior to his election,"I would  bankrupt  the coal industry  if I were  president" . Guess he has made good  on one  promise. Al

[grayhair]

On 5/16/2016 at 8:57 PM, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Wind now beats coal and natural gas for cost, we only need natural gas for baseload backup. Coal will never make a comeback- It costs more to build a new coal plant than a natural gas plant, and wind is even cheaper. Coal fueled locomotives were scrapped over a half century ago because they couldn't respond quickly to load demands and needed too much maintenance. Coal fired power plants have the same problems and I'm surprised they've lasted as long as they have.

Coal may be dead - but it is not dead forever.  Natural gas happens to be abundant today.  But look to the future - no not that future - but way, way into the future.  The way I see it:

New nuclear power plants still won't be approved.  Fracking will be eventually be outlawed as potable water becomes more precious than oil.  And natural gas supplies will eventually be depleted.  Depleted because here in the U.S. nat gas consumption increases every year and we are building more new plants right now to ratchet up our exports of - guess what - liquified natural gas (LNG.)  The day will come when the "greenies" will beg us to unearth the billions of tons of coal here in the U.S.  So ask yourself, what will our grandchildren's children use for heat and power 100 years from now?  Sure, some solar, and some wind, and COAL.  

  http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Can-LNG-Exports-Help-Ailing-US-Producers-Apparently-Not.html

Edited June 4, 2016 by grayhair

[Gmerrill0516]

That's a winning plan.  Coal burns dirty they say, so we can't burn it here.  We send it to some crap stink hole that burns it with no technology to make it clean...and call that a success.  The pollution is uncontrolled AND we have depleted our own natural resources.  That's a recipe for success!  Fortunately we can send our money to the middle east to help them in their ambition to kill us.  I imagine that having killed the coal market domestically has also allowed us to sell it at a bargain to the customers abroad.  You can't make this stuff up...has to happen for you to believe it.  Great plan...not for America, but great plan.

[41chevy]

On 6/4/2016 at 0:34 AM, grayhair said:

Coal may be dead - but it is not dead forever.  Natural gas happens to be abundant today.  But look to the future - no not that future - but way, way into the future.  The way I see it:

New nuclear power plants still won't be approved.  Fracking will be eventually be outlawed as potable water becomes more precious than oil.  And natural gas supplies will eventually be depleted.  Depleted because here in the U.S. nat gas consumption increases every year and we are building more new plants right now to ratchet up our exports of - guess what - liquified natural gas (LNG.)  The day will come when the "greenies" will beg us to unearth the billions of tons of coal here in the U.S.  So ask yourself, what will our grandchildren's children use for heat and power 100 years from now?  Sure, some solar, and some wind, and COAL.  

  http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Can-LNG-Exports-Help-Ailing-US-Producers-Apparently-Not.html

Unfortunately most is under areas that Billy Clinton and Obama have declared  World Heritage Sites and come under U.N. jurisdiction, until we get away from the U.N. we have been screwed. Look at the U.N. treaty when Obama and Hillary signed  the U.N. WOTUS Treaty. It gave control of of all Waters Of The United States to the U.N.

Edited June 6, 2016 by 41chevy

[grayhair]

Further to my earlier post about nat gas...   An additional 350 million cu ft. per day will go to Europe for the foreseeable future.  Our natural gas is plentiful now, but not forever...

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2016/06/kinder-morgan-gets-green-lightfor-new-lng-project.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by grayhair