Full Floater Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Ok so im due for new governor springs in my 79 RS600L, with an EM6-300. Its doing the lopey idle thing with a lopey acceleration. I have never done springs before and this is my first Mack. So, what all is involved? I will be having an injection shop do the work but I need to know if I have to remove the entire injection pump or can I get to the springs another way? I don't even know where the springs are... Thanks fella's, Im looking forward to getting this motor that's in excellent shape, running smoothly!! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmyb Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I could be wrong, but wouldn't the springs in question be the external ones in your picture? Where the excellerator linkage goes into the pump? I see you have one Spring hanging down. Try installing that 2nd spring and see if it makes a difference. Will cost you about 2 minutes. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Im expert but I pulled the whole pump to get mine done and guess what made no difference at all LOL true cost me $5000.00 but still hunted real bad after woulds so my advice check it out properly what the cause is before shelling out hard earned coin Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back In Black Pulling Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Gov springs are in the back behind the round cap with 4 bolts in it. big one is for idle little one for high rpm. Might be slack in the bearing and linkage in side. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post terry Posted May 22, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2016 Somebody will correct me if I am wrong, but when them govenors do this, I thing it is some worn bushings in the govenor. terry 4 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 9 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said: Im expert but I pulled the whole pump to get mine done and guess what made no difference at all LOL true cost me $5000.00 but still hunted real bad after woulds so my advice check it out properly what the cause is before shelling out hard earned coin Paul What A knob head I am its meant to say Im no expert because Im sure as hell not a expert at any of this and just blunder my way thru What a fool I am LOL seeya's Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I think all knew what you was saying Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 42 minutes ago, mrsmackpaul said: What A knob head I am its meant to say Im no expert because Im sure as hell not a expert at any of this and just blunder my way thru What a fool I am LOL seeya's Yeah, U shuld b prefeck lik the rist ov us..... 2 Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 3 hours ago, theakerstwo said: I think all knew what you was saying Yeah you should have told me to wipe me chin as it looked like I was dribbling shit Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 The external springs in the picture are the throttle return springs. They are both new but the horizontal one replaced what was there from the factory, or at least it looked factory. The other one is just an extra one that I put on for good measure, to be sure that this wasn't casing my issue. All it did was make the pedal stiffer. There is defiantly something going on as it hunts at idle and when I accelerate softly, it does it then to. Its like im going down the road and getting on and off the throttle every second or two, but in reality, im holding it as steady as I possibly can. The entire linkage is tight and no play anywhere So should I look at bushings instead of springs?? I have no idea where to start Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 no what you should do is get it of and send it to a pump shop.If your like most of us you don't have the parts or equipment to do pump repairs. 1 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 What Glen says to much can go wrong if you make a mess of it Paul 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Ok so pull the whole pump and have it checked out, ok. If I knew it was the springs, does the entire pump need to be pulled anyways? or can the back part be removed from the main body of the injection pump? Is there anything else I should have done to the pump while its at the injection shop? Its fairly low mileage, 220.000km so im hoping that it does not need a full rebuild Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 If your gunna pull the pump the whole pump has to go to the shop a good shop should only fix what is wrong in my opinion if the pump isnt your problem they should be able to tell you that as well with out spending fortune to find out Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Also a tad bit more useless information from the small amount I know about governors its not the springs that need replacing the pivots wear on the fly weights and associated mechanism and all those bits need replacing and then the springs need to be adjusted to suit this may only apply to Caterpillar engines but I reckon theres a good chance the Mack governor will work on the same principle all in all it isnt a simple job and it is easy muck a injector pump if you dont know what your doing plenty have over the years anyway I will shut up other wise you will never get your pump off Hang on one more thing and Glen please correct me if Im wrong these have to be spill timed once the injector pump has been pulled off and if you dont know how to do that someone on here maybe able to talk you thru it when I did mine it was a two person job there maybe a way to do it on your own if it has to be done which I think it will I will shut up now Paul 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve p Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 paul, to set your spill timing ,use a ball bearing Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Ok I will phone the nearest pump shop in the a.m as they are closed today, and see if they want to do the job. Spill timed eh.... That's a new one to me and always have wanted to try it....here's my chance!! Edited May 23, 2016 by Full Floater Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I believe if you take pump off with the adapter with the three adapter to block bolts it will only go on one way and not move timing, the 237 285 pumps are this way. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Full Floater said: Ok I will phone the nearest pump shop in the a.m as they are closed today, and see if they want to do the job. Spill timed eh.... That's a new one to me and always have wanted to try it....here's my chance!! I dont think its called spill timing in the US but it sets the time the injector fires as how far advanced or retarded the injectors are in relation ship to the crank and on some motors if its not right they can be real hard to start when cold and feel low on power when under load so its very important that it is correct I think if you pulled the injector pump and refitted it , it would still be wise to check the timing it would be like pulling a head on a motor and refitting it and not checking the valve clearance to me It doesnt cost anything to do only time gives you good piece of mind that is still correct and once again Glen feel free to put me straight if I have all this wrong Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 The timing need check or retimed ever time its pulled from the engine.One reason you don't know who tried to time it last.And if you did then you know how easy it is to be off.Yes it will fire and run with out checking it but timing is very important. 2 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 On 5/22/2016 at 7:20 PM, mrsmackpaul said: Yeah you should have told me to wipe me chin as it looked like I was dribbling shit vegamite? 2 Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-334312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted March 29 Author Share Posted March 29 Old topic, but a common issue. I just had an Ambac pump rebuilt solely due to worn gov springs/surging at low rpm/low throttle input. A rack "buffer" kit was installed in conjunction with whatever else they did to the governor. Solved the surging problem completely. I have 3 others with the same problem, and will eventually get all 3 of them done also when funds permit. Should be good for another 40-50 years now. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-549100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladislav Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Thanks for the note. I'm going to revise my Ambac pump off E6-350. The idle was floating and the rest seemed Ok. But bench check and other possibly needed jobs are on the list. I will Google the "rack buffer" to figure more about the issue you fought. Quote Никогда не бывает слишком много грузовиков! leversole 11.2012 Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-549103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 6 hours ago, Vladislav said: Thanks for the note. I'm going to revise my Ambac pump off E6-350. The idle was floating and the rest seemed Ok. But bench check and other possibly needed jobs are on the list. I will Google the "rack buffer" to figure more about the issue you fought. There sure isn't a lot of info out there. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-549120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBWhite Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 I couldn't find anything about a rack buffer either. Would it comprise of an extra spring or something? Every Mack I've been around with an Ambac pump surges to some degree. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45307-governor-spring-replacement-time/#findComment-549121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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