Frame refurbishement

[mackniac]

HI !

I'd like to know if someone can shed light on frame work ,

when you sandblast a frame that is old you have some crevasses ( or also called pitted metal) what product do you use to fill them before repainting ?

 

 

[Timmyb]

I've never done it before, but I'd be tempted to use body filler. Because it's been sand blasted, it will have a rough-ish finish and should stick well enough. 

[jackb61sx]

When we did the B Model be dismantled all three frame rails and after sand blasting they where as you said "pitted" so we primed all the rails then used a good body filler on the outside of the outer rail where needed and just the inside of the inner most rail. We then primed them again and then painted and they came of like glass you can't tell that they where ever touched.

[Maddog13407]

yup, same with mine, blasted and used good body filler as long as its not rotten enough to be a structural problem. even welded up some extra holes and duraglassed them and filled over them. smooth as glass. there is another product out there called almost metal or something that's a two part body filler to

[AZB755V8]

There are some good body fillers products out there that work great. Be prepared to pay for it, last gallon I got was $85. I must be getting old, I remember when a good gallon was $20... There is nothing like good clean rails, a lot of guys comment on my trucks and ask if the rails are new, no they are not just a lot of work and some body filler. Weld up the big pits and holes, I hate unused holes... Start with a clean decent pair helps too. I have reframed one and doing a second to have original uncut or sliced frames but that is extreme.

Filler is like Dave's Redhot... I put that shit on everything, just in moderation and good taste.

1st The start of restoration a Texas one owner B75,

2nd Worked on original B rails from California,

3rd Finished B-755

[Vladislav]

I would put two component glass wool filled body filler to work out deep pits.

Or just a common "soft" filler if the lay isn't thick.

Although on my mind when you redo an old rig it's nice when it will have some traces of its age. Something like a kind of its history.

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Vladislav

[Timmyb]

Is there a special way you guys weld up holes? Stick or mig best way? I've got a few extra holes in my rails which is like to fill up but have never done it before. 

[AZB755V8]

49 minutes ago, Timmyb said:

Is there a special way you guys weld up holes? Stick or mig best way? I've got a few extra holes in my rails which is like to fill up but have never done it before. 

Mig welding is the way to go. Get some round bar stock, 8620 would be a good steel to use, and turn it down on a lathe to fit tight in the holes, cut it an 1/8 inch longer than the rail thickness. Weld around it and grind down to flush with frame. Smaller than 3/8 inch holes just fill in with weld from both sided.

[Timmyb]

7 minutes ago, AZB755V8 said:

Mig welding is the way to go. Get some round bar stock, 8620 would be a good steel to use, and turn it down on a lathe to fit tight in the holes, cut it an 1/8 inch longer than the rail thickness. Weld around it and grind down to flush with frame. Smaller than 3/8 inch holes just fill in with weld from both sided.

Thank you good sir. I figure it was better to ask first, then weld. 

[mackniac]

thank you to all replies this is very appreciated .

[41chevy]

10 hours ago, AZB755V8 said:

Mig welding is the way to go. Get some round bar stock, 8620 would be a good steel to use, and turn it down on a lathe to fit tight in the holes, cut it an 1/8 inch longer than the rail thickness. Weld around it and grind down to flush with frame. Smaller than 3/8 inch holes just fill in with weld from both sided.

 

10 hours ago, Timmyb said:

Thank you good sir. I figure it was better to ask first, then weld. 

Most States here and all insurance companies  (and maybe DOT) require gas shielded MIG or TIG for all chassis and structural repairs. Purer and cleaner weld and with the limited heat area less susceptible to cracking or other failures.    Paul

[BillyT]

 Interesting subject,All of you are correct! If the pitting is not deep enough to affect structural integrity,almost any good commercial plastic filler will work, It seems to bond better over a quality primer,In today's world I think a urethane product is the way to go.I used to have good results with zinc chromate,but hard to find due to epa regs.Napa has it in spray cans for small jobs,was pricey!Azb755v8,I remember when a gallon of plastic was 8 bucks! I had over a hundred dollars In materials to repair a 12 square inch dent,some stroke put in my p.u. I've never owned a body shop,but I can see where ins.companies might require an inert gas product for structural welds,no slag inclusions etc.As far as the dot is concerned,most dot inspectors aren't welders.I used to get called out when a driver was red tagged by the dot,only had a stick machine on the truck,always passed inspection.However the way things are going I could see them requiring a certificate in a truck that has been repaired or rebuilt saying what process was used,especially Cal. I used to go to no small amount of effort to have my " ducks in a row " in Cal. Especially Banning!

[steve p]

mig welding is low hydrogen which doesn't cause hydrogen brittlement , you can m.m.a [arc] but must use low hydrogen rods

[Vladislav]

15 hours ago, steve p said:

mig welding is low hydrogen which doesn't cause hydrogen brittlement , you can m.m.a [arc] but must use low hydrogen rods

What's the way of getting hydrogen into welded steel? I suppose the only source of hydrogen is water vapors air conteins. Is hydrogen being taking from air humidity by electric plasma of a welder? And presents in amounts enough to increase welded material's brittlement?

Sounds a bit doubtful and I have never heard about that. 

Oxigen conteined in air is almost another story.

[41chevy]

8 hours ago, Vladislav said:

What's the way of getting hydrogen into welded steel? I suppose the only source of hydrogen is water vapors air conteins. Is hydrogen being taking from air humidity by electric plasma of a welder? And presents in amounts enough to increase welded material's brittlement?

Sounds a bit doubtful and I have never heard about that. 

Oxigen conteined in air is almost another story.

The most vulnerable are high-strength steels, titanium alloys and aluminum alloys.  Hydrogen embrittlement is on the atomic level NOT a Gas level.  It is a contaminant in the environment that is a by-product of general manufacturing of steel and titanium  also from rust and corrosion. It is the latter that concerns the nuclear industry. Hydrogen may be produced by corrosion reactions such as rusting, cathodic protection for stick or non gas shielded MIG welding, and from Zinc, Galvanizing or Chrome electroplating, phosphating and pickling; if a material subject to such operations is susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement then a final, baking heat treatment to expel any hydrogen is employed. There is a Department of Defense Standard for dealing with it, we had to learn and follow when I got my Navy Welding Certification  (DOD 03-30)     Paul

 

[steve p]

41 chevy      you are on to it ,thanks mate. my old man was a pressure welder by trade ,I remember him telling me about it. here in oz there is a handbook produced by the transport department on chassis mods ,it goes into detail what is acceptable welding practices tig, mig v's stick then gives a detailed rod selection list

 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by steve p
add more info

[kscarbel2]

BMT...........Simply the best knowledge base on trucks the world over.

[Vladislav]

23 hours ago, 41chevy said:

The most vulnerable are high-strength steels, titanium alloys and aluminum alloys.  Hydrogen embrittlement is on the atomic level NOT a Gas level.  It is a contaminant in the environment that is a by-product of general manufacturing of steel and titanium  also from rust and corrosion. It is the latter that concerns the nuclear industry. Hydrogen may be produced by corrosion reactions such as rusting, cathodic protection for stick or non gas shielded MIG welding, and from Zinc, Galvanizing or Chrome electroplating, phosphating and pickling; if a material subject to such operations is susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement then a final, baking heat treatment to expel any hydrogen is employed. There is a Department of Defense Standard for dealing with it, we had to learn and follow when I got my Navy Welding Certification  (DOD 03-30)     Paul

 

That's pretty interesting, thanks.

I have never heard about it, true. Although I'm not a professional welder. Just a mechanical engeneer.

Should add either, I'm happy to be a part of this society. The source of knowledge and the opportunity to see many things from different (of my local one) point of view.

[RJ1]

I have been using US Chemical All Metal Body Filler http://uschem.com/index.cfm?page=productDetail&id=54 for the last 10 years on my restoration and repair projects and have been very happy with it's performance.  I recently used it for filling pitted spots (after sand blasting with Black Beauty blast media) on the frame of my 1987 RM6864SX .  The product is difficult to sand, but the edges feather out incredibly well.

[Outbehindthebarn]

21 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

BMT...........Simply the best knowledge base on trucks the world over.

Every time I read through topics like this one, I'm so grateful for the site. I'm also reminded how 'peculiar' we are for enjoying trucks this much.