It’s time for an 'adult conversation' on longer, heavier trucks

[mrsmackpaul]

10 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Im not knocking the US at all but on some issues it appears from the outside looking in if the congress wants to make a big difference there is some obvious things that maybe needed to be looked at 

And no one has called the US dumb stupid or lazy or even implied it I have just asked some questions ????? 

But the US congress has asked the question so maybe its worth the answer 

I dont think anyone has said the US truck industry isnt smart or efficient but the question any one should ask is how much better could it be if they had better roads and trucks and trailers to do it with

I dont think anyone is saying anyone is dumb 

Maybe the industry isnt ready for a adult conversation after all

Paul 

You know what really dags me these days is how as soon as some one says something someone else might not like people start to bitch and sook and cry fowl say we are putting them down 

As far as knocking the US while I dont agree with everything that goes on over there I do hold the US in fairly high regard I do often think about all the men who gave their lives to fight a fight that wasnt really theirs but they felt that it was the right thing to do very much like my own country men

I also truly believe that in the US just like Australia although the all mighty dollar is important that in times of need almost all from all walks of life put that and other differences aside for the good of man 

The  beliefs that we in Australia hold near and dear and give our lives for are similar if not almost the same as those in the US 

So yeah I crack the shits when some body implies Im knocking the US as believe most Americans arent that much different than most Australians

What made me think of this well the Princess sent me a link to a story in the US and its a story that I have seen and been apart of in Australia before about people helping out people not for any monetary gain  but because its the right thing to do now thats what makes this country great and also expect thats what makes your country great 

To imply Im knocking  the US well when I was fertilizing my sugar cane in my US based Australianised IH tractor I got to thinking my ute is GM the Princesses wagon is GM heck the Mack US Australianised product my old Chamberlain tractor was made by John Deere Fruhauf trailers Steco float even the Federal truck the list goes even a lot of my good tools are US made heck if anyone actually pulled their head out of their ass and read what was typed they might find the US has a lot more friends than they think our troops are still fighting along side your troops and no doubt always will

Back to the link it has trucks in it so I guess its ok on a truck forum hope the link works 

as we say in Australia " I will now get off my soap box" rant over have a good night 

 

Paul

 

 http://bonviral.com/community-rallies-together-to-help-farmer-with-terminal-cancer-reap-last-harvest/

[HeavyGunner]

In all fairness Paul I wasn't talking directly about you. Just go take a look at nearly any trucking news KS posts and there are a few who have absolutely called the US dumb lazy cheap etc etc continually.  Anything other than their view is wrong, dumb, backwards.   Point being there is a far better way of discussing things other than calling one way stupid lazy cheap dumb and I think it's fair to point that out. Certainly there are better ways to do some things but like discussed above government controls it. 

[BillyT]

Once again the the "real"citizens of the world and America have spoken with their usual intelligence and common sense! If truckers and the other tradesmen who have built and maintain the infrastructure of the world had a larger part in governing it we all would be better off! No slur intended on the scientists,teachers, and others in the intellectual community! Only on the career politicians and and corporate hacks who pay them to do their bidding which is entirely "bottom line" based! I actually crossed the San Francisco bay bridge two weeks before the earthquake, and the I35 bridge in Minnesota 3 days before it fell,so I too consider myself lucky!

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Dumb we americans may be, but lazy we ain't! Heck, lots of us are "working' fools", damn near giving away our labor and assets instead of demanding the fair pay and value we deserve. KS has the benefit of seeing trucking from a worldwide viewpoint instead of with the "blinders' on like many americans do. Look at trucking from a worldwide view, and it's pretty obvious we're the oddball 5% that buys light "trucks" with a cab bigger than the cargo area, high ground clearance, and four wheel drive to handle the occasional pothole at the shopping mall. This stupidity percolates all the way up to what we think is a big rig, an overpriced 600 horse too long conventional with more blind spots than visibility and a sleeper that darn near rates it's own zip code just to haul 10 ton loads in a country where only 36 tons is allowed nationwide. We make a virtue of wasting fuel, bragging that our 600 horse truck with it boxy hood and cab and parts sticking out everywhere gets only 5 MPG, when it should get 7 or better. 

Is it any wonder that BNSF railroad hauls 20% of all the freight in America, UP almost as much, and neither even serves the eastern third of the country? And how does UPS manage to pay Teamster Union wages and benefits, yet turns a profit while the guy showing off that 600 horsepower truck is dining off the 99 cent menu at McDonalds and racing to stay ahead of the repo man? Just saw a FB post from Sluyter Logistics, the company my relatives started in the Netherlands, advertising for drivers. Full time job, local work, hourly pay, late model trucks, and of course health insurance... If I was young and unemployed I'd be putting in my application!

[41180]

GbGreetings from this dumb American that drives a Silverado 4x4 with a pushrod v8 and a mack titan . Damn proud of it 

[BillyT]

T,Grrrl, the factors that add up too ups's Financial success are manyfold. 1. They haul l.t.l. and package freight,which has a higher Rate than most dry freight. They have a legendary maintenance program,including keeping the equipment clean which lends a professional appearance to their operation.2. They pay their drivers union scale,and they Damn well earn it! But a well paid driver is a happy driver! And a happy driver is a hard working efficient driver! 3.The freight they haul tends to be light,adding to the longevity and fuel efficiency of their fleet. Their polar opposite Wal Mart is another well run,well paid fleet,that virtually recruits itself.Wal Mart is well aware that without an efficient fleet they would run out of product (like K Mart) and soon get a poor reputation(like K Mart). K Mart was a pos even before they merged with Sears! You can always tell a poorly run business by their freight dock! The majority of well run businesses have their own drivers and security personnel. Public market and Winn Dixie are examples. Target is an anomaly in that respect! Much as I hate Wal Mart in general they load and unload you efficiently.

[BillyT]

We were talking about Ford going to Mexico but I lost my post! Ironic that my wife's boring but" bulletproof" Corolla was built in Canada, and it's powertrain was built in America! As far as I'm concerned that's as good as being built in America! Canada never bought into America's low wage,pro corporate deregulation! So it was built by properly paid workers! By the way I recommend "Who stole the American dream" by Hyder Smith.Especially the part about Wal Mart and Rubbermaid!

[Outbehindthebarn]

18 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

C'mon Paul, we're talking about truck design, and trailers..................not any of the other you mention.

I can't tell, was he being sarcastic?

[41chevy]

Lethargic public also. As long as the phone works, computer works, lights go on, water comes out of the tap, the train is on time and they get on the highway with minimal delays, John Q Public could care less.  Like Terrorists, gun control, election reform and rebuilding the infrastructure. They are only mentioned when there is a failure, big to do about fixing it, a show and than all is forgotten.  Same a bigger trailers, the general public wouldn't even notice them if they didn't have it pointed out.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Saw what looked to be a canadian style B-train flatbed combination in Gwinner, ND friday near the Bobcat plant. Was empty so I didn't stop for a look, as we see the occasional Canadian 8 axle B train in the Dakotas. Coming home on sunday I see two similar B-train combos, but loaded with big coils so I stopped to take a look. Company was out of Michigan with MI base plates, and two extra lift axles spaced just over 9 feet from the other axles so they could haul the maximum 18k pounds on each for a total of around 150k pounds in Michigan. A good sized coil on each trailer, so must have been overweight even for North Dakota's 105,500 pound weight limit, and way over the 80k pound limits in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. The B-train with all the extra lift axles must be pretty heavy, so no point in running it at the 80k pound limit. I suspect the load originated in Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, or Ontario... So did they take the long way round through Ontario, or sneak across IL, WI, MN, and ND?

[BillyT]

T,Grrrl, maybe the coils pay so well they can afford an overweight permit. Is that 105000k limit on secondary rds or on any highway period?

[TeamsterGrrrl]

It's a divisible load, so doubt it'd qualify for an overweight permit. Could be Chinese, Korean, or Japanese steel that came in through BC, those B-Trains can run at 63.5 metric tons in Canada. With the lift axles down they could legally run at around 55 tons metric through Montana and South Dakota, then they've got just a 15 mile or so run from the border to the Bobcat plant in North Dakota and there's no scales on that stretch.

[41chevy]

On 9/20/2016 at 1:28 PM, Outbehindthebarn said:

I can't tell, was he being sarcastic?

Yes I was. It's a Yankee sense of humor...as subtle as a hammer hitting butter.

[BillyT]

Seems fairly obvious what they're up to! Certainly wouldn't be American or Canadian steel!😦 thanks for reply!

[Timmyb]

Back to the topic at hand. By what do they mean 33ft trailers are less dangerous than 28ft trailers?

In my experience the longer the trailer the straighter they tow. 

Also, you don't need to run multiple combinations on every road in the country. Just the routes between major cities. And if they are kept on these multiple lane highways then overtaking isn't  an issue either. 

With respect to triaxle trailers, here in Aus you have 20t limit over 3 axles compared to 16.5t over 2 axles. 

I've also been following a company that sells a new concrete primarily for use in bridge and highway use. So the condition of the bridges is surprisingly bad!

 

[Underdog]

I recently saw a Canadian B train Southbound on Route 33 in Pennsylvania. Very odd, I thought. Not legal in these parts. I was not personally offended however , as I believe the B train is a sensible combination For many transport needs. I remember a customer in Seneca Falls New York, a Quebec outfit came in almost every day with half B-trains in the morning, then make the 6 hour round trip to the border at Thousand Islands to bring the other half. How silly that the New York Thruway allows twin 48 Footers, but not B-trains. In my opinion the B train is much more stable and safe.

[HeavyGunner]

13 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

It's a divisible load, so doubt it'd qualify for an overweight permit. Could be Chinese, Korean, or Japanese steel that came in through BC, those B-Trains can run at 63.5 metric tons in Canada. With the lift axles down they could legally run at around 55 tons metric through Montana and South Dakota, then they've got just a 15 mile or so run from the border to the Bobcat plant in North Dakota and there's no scales on that stretch.

Canadians can legally cross the sweet grass border crossing (I 15 and at Canadian weights) and run 24 or so miles to the truck stop in Shelby where they have to drop a trailer to finish the delivery. There's real tension with some of he American truckers hauling from the same fertilizer plant in Canada but aren't allowed to cross into the US at Canadian weights and be able to drive to the same truck stop and drop a trailer. There's a big fertilizer plant about 2 miles from the truck stop so it would be worth it to drop a trailer unload and come back for the other. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by HeavyGunner

[TeamsterGrrrl]

The Canadian B-trains don't suffer so big a weight penalty in the northwestern states that go by Formula B, except for the 105,500 pound cap in ND, OR, and WA.  With 8 axles they can run up to about 110,000 pounds, or around 123,000 pounds with a couple lift axles. But in an 80,000 pound state the Canadian B trains really lose a lot of payload due to their heavy weight. Thus when I see them complete and with a heavy load, I get kinda suspicious, used to see a lot of 6,7, and 8 axle Canadian rigs trying to steak across northern Wisconsin, by the low speeds the climbed the hills at t'was obvious they weighted way more than 80,000 pounds!

[41chevy]

On 9/18/2016 at 3:40 AM, kscarbel2 said:

a small sample size, but in early 2015, a Maine state official attributed a drop in highway fatalities in part to a federal pilot program that was allowing heavier tractor-trailers with six axles rated up to 100,000-lbs. GCW on all interstate highways in Maine.

“Commercial vehicle related fatalities dropped in 2014 to 10 fatalities compared to 18 in 2013,” James Tanner, fatal accident system analyst for the Maine Bureau of Highway Safety, said in a Bangor Daily News story. “Maine averaged 16.2 commercial vehicle related crash fatalities from 2009 to 2013. Overall, Maine has experienced a decrease in the number of commercial vehicle related fatalities from 2009 when we experienced 23 commercial vehicle related fatalities.”

All ready some proof it works, but there is still the infrastructure problems on a majority of our roads, the lack of the powers that be, figuring on how to make money on allowing the increase and every municipality and local DOT wanting to be heard on the subject even if it has no impact on them.

Curtain side trailers are a great thing for ease of loading and off loading but, I feel they are a target left unattended. Go to Alphabet City, Hunts Market, Wyandanch and many other urban areas and come back in an hour, it will be slashed open and empty.  Just my opinion.

   Paul

Edited September 22, 2016 by 41chevy

[HeavyGunner]

22 minutes ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

The Canadian B-trains don't suffer so big a weight penalty in the northwestern states that go by Formula B, except for the 105,500 pound cap in ND, OR, and WA.  With 8 axles they can run up to about 110,000 pounds, or around 123,000 pounds with a couple lift axles. 

I'm Gvw'd for 133K in Montana on 11 axles 100 feet from center of steer axle to center of pup axle.  Usually grossing around 128k-130k because I can't bridge anymore than that. 

[BC Mack]

I have this old photo taken of my truck in the 90's.... according to the Mack build sheet is was built specifically for the maximum weight of 63.5 metric tons gcvw (140,000lb)... hauled lumber one way and bagged fertilizer back, if returning empty they put the rear trailer on top which saved ferry fees (charged by length not weight)...

lots of these trailers in western Canada, if fact Chevron use this configuration for delivering to gas stations in the big city, citing more maneuverability than a single trailer... 

A local building supply company, Rona, is using this trailer system with curtain sides, use it for wallboard etc from warehouse to smaller stores, quick to unload from the sides....

I've seen new super-b trailers with lifting axles for returning empty... I assume someone has rationalised the weight/cost/scrub factors.

found photos on the net but the good ones were Hanks so decided not to poach them... we've been there with Hank... 

overall our bridges aren't collapsing, not perfect, but the roads in general are good, upgrading is happening, bridges which were built in 1958 are getting seismic upgrades as we do get quakes... and you've all watched 'highway thru hell' so you know what the terrain and weather is like... it's not straight and flat..!!!

BC Mack

[kscarbel2]

On September 20, 2016 at 4:32 PM, HeavyGunner said:

In all fairness Paul I wasn't talking directly about you.

Just go take a look at nearly any trucking news KS posts and there are a few who have absolutely called the US dumb lazy cheap etc etc continually.  Anything other than their view is wrong, dumb, backwards.  

Point being there is a far better way of discussing things other than calling one way stupid lazy cheap dumb and I think it's fair to point that out. Certainly there are better ways to do some things but like discussed above government controls it. 

I'm still struggling at how to interpret this.

I post "all" the U.S. truck industry news and most of the significant global. I don't write it.

i strive to provide a one-stop news source for the truck industry.

i strive to meet everyone's interests.

By presenting the face of the trucking industry, including a global perspective, I strive to enhance, and extend, everyone's understanding, as the world has become a much smaller place.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Fact is, America is less than 5% of the world's population and 20% of the world's truck market. We're also something of an oddball with our preference for conventional cabs, big sleepers, low weight limits, and single cargo carrying units. We also have a deep distrust of new technology, which means we still accept stuff like drum brakes when the rest of the world is going over to discs. Then add in our oddball EPA regulations and system of measurement, and is it any wonder that the world's vehicle makers don't send they're best stuff here?

That's not anti-American, it's just the facts...

[Mackpro]

Before I start my rant, I'd like to say no offence to our overeas members.  I , for one love the European infiuence in our trucking industry.  Gone are the days of a simple headlight circuit of a fuse, a switch , maybe a relay and head light. Now thanks to our European friends at Volvo, we have multiple breakers, fuse panels  , relays and a  ECM and I cant forget the   European style wiring diagrams that are impossible to read.  But I guess I shouldn't complain as I make good money tracing their crazy wiring issuses.  Our new trucks have become like BMW's, Land Rover's and Mercedes, unless you have money to burn, dont own one out of warranty.  We call it here " European Reliability".  We still have lots of R-models and early CH's  running around here and just one day I'd like to come  in and work on one to remember the good days back when I first started this job in 1988.  That rarely happens........wonder why? Now I'm off to troubleshoot a 2010 GU that will start if you pull it with a chain but not with the key.  Time to use those wonderful wiring diagrams :).

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Yup, noticed that change on the Freightliner cabovers back around the mid 80s when Daimler redesigned the electrical system and moved it to the top of the doghouse, replacing the padding. Wiring looked similar to my BMW motorcycle, and made napping across the doghouse a lot less comfortable! But after the redesign, the Freightliners didn't catch fire quite as often...