The Electronic Logging Device (ELD) Controversy

[Underdog]

So you think I should have been a social worker instead of a truck driver? I had the credentials for licensure in either profession...

No money in social work... You must be a capitalist.

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[TeamsterGrrrl]

Most Social Workers work in government, and because the job generally requires at least a 4 year degree, they're well paid. Back in the 90s before Minnesota upped the prerequisites for licensure I could have gotten grandfathered in based on my having a 4 year degree with some social work and psych courses and experience working in social service agencies, and my social worker friends tried to talk me into it. Probably would have paid about the same as the Postal Service and similar benfits, so didn't make much difference that I stayed in trucking.

[Underdog]

Most Social Workers work in government, and because the job generally requires at least a 4 year degree, they're well paid. Back in the 90s before Minnesota upped the prerequisites for licensure I could have gotten grandfathered in based on my having a 4 year degree with some social work and psych courses and experience working in social service agencies, and my social worker friends tried to talk me into it. Probably would have paid about the same as the Postal Service and similar benfits, so didn't make much difference that I stayed in trucking.

Thank goodness you chose trucking. Now we can all learn from your experience how it's supposed to be done. It's obvious you're the only one who has been doing it correctly.

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[41chevy]

Doesn't matter what you chose to do It's your choice same as every one else on here. Want to go to college or a tech school and not use it, no skin off anybody.. What anybody chooses to do should be no concern of anybody but them.

[Keith Pommerening]

Had a friend tell me how it is done today,  You find a way to make a living.  The gooberment comes in and regulates it.  They continue to regulate it until you can't make a living at it any more.  Then they subsidise it!  

[Marcel67]

I have spoken with several Guy's that are on E logs and told me that there are ways around to cheat a little. I don't know how but I guess every one is going in the same boat shortly. Me with flower and plant loads also have to slow down!

[BillyT]

I predict the new regs will assure that 2000 and earlier model trucks will be kept in serviceable condition until the frames literally disintegrate from metal fatigue lol! Perhaps a new era for " glider kits"😁 Keith, they did it for Penn Central r.r for years!

[Marcel67]

Well it looks like the cops can't give you a logbook violations any more ore a HOS violations do the are going to loose revenue. So now it becomes a witch hunt on older trucks and guess newer trucks for technical issues! Short mudflaps uhhh wrong socks 😂

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Marcel67
Typo

[carlotpilot]

1 hour ago, Marcel67 said:

Well it looks like the cops can't give you a logbook violations any more ore a HOS violations do the are going to loose revenue. So now it becomes a witch hunt on older trucks and guess newer trucks for technical issues! Short mudflaps uhhh wrong socks 😂

 

hash marks

[kscarbel2]

UPS seeks exemption from certain ELD mandate provisions

Matt Cole, Commercial Carrier Journal (CCJ)  /  June 8, 2017

UPS (No. 1 in the CCJ Top 250) is petitioning the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration for an exemption from certain provisions in the electronic logging device mandate.

The carrier is asking FMCSA to allow it to (1) use an alternative phase-in method for automatic on-board recording devices (AOBRDs) (2) for an exemption from the requirement that an ELD automatically records certain data elements upon a duty status change when a driver is not in the truck (3) to allow ELDs to be configured to a special driving mode for yard moves and (4) to allow vehicle movements of less than a mile on UPS property by non-driver UPS employees to be annotated in the ELD as “on property – other.”

In the mandate, FMCSA allows carriers that have compliant AOBRDs installed before the Dec. 18, 2017, ELD compliance date to continue their use until as late as Dec. 16, 2019, before having to switch to ELDs. UPS says this grandfather clause applying to vehicles, rather than entire fleets, makes it difficult for large carriers to comply. The fleet says it plans to purchase more than 1,500 new tractors in 2018, after the grandfathering deadline, which would require all of those trucks to be equipped with ELDs.

UPS says its drivers use multiple trucks each week and would inevitably end up driving trucks with ELDs and AOBRDs during the same week, creating “complex and difficult situations to manage.” UPS is asking FMCSA to allow it to install AOBRDs on new tractors that are delivered to facilities where AOBRDs are already in use to avoid drivers having to use both ELDs and AOBRDs. UPS says all of its vehicles would still be fully ELD-compliant by the Dec. 16, 2019, deadline.

The second provision of the rule UPS is seeking an exemption from deals with ELDs recording data when a driver changes his or her duty status and when a driver logs in to or out of an ELD.

Under the terms of a bargaining agreement for its drivers between UPS and the Teamsters Union, the fleet says it cannot comply with both the requirement that an ELD record tractor data when a driver logs in and out – or changes his or her duty status while outside the truck  – as well as the bargaining agreement contract and pay guidelines for drivers. The fleet is asking FMCSA to allow it to “systematically annotate that the driver was performing other work” to assure accurate recording of on-duty, non-driving time.

To save time for its drivers, UPS is also seeking an exemption to allow the drivers moving trailers around yards to be able to select the “yard move” special driving status and remain in that status, even if the truck is turned off and back on. The company says most of its drivers are required to complete yard moves as part of their regular work day, and UPS requires them to take the keys out of the ignition each time they exit the truck as a safety precaution.

UPS says that under the exemption, if granted, the ELD would switch to a “driving” duty status if the truck exceeds 20 miles per hour or if it exits the geo-fenced yard. The fleet says requiring drivers to select “yard move” status each time they turn the truck off and back on would cost it approximately $460,000 a year in lost time.

Finally, UPS asks that FMCSA make an exemption for its fuel and wash employees that are not technically drivers. The company says it has 1,434 employees to wash and fuel vehicles that only drive the trucks on UPS property and are not required to comply with hours-of-service regulations. Because the ELD rule requires the device to automatically record data when a truck is turned on and off – and UPS will be using portable, driver-based ELDs and not permanent ELDs in the trucks – providing the non-driver employees with ELDs would be costly. As an alternative, UPS proposes that truck usage of less than one mile by these employees driven completely on UPS property be annotated on an ELD as “on property – other.”

FMCSA is seeking public comment on UPS’ exemption request, which can be made at www.regulations.gov by searching Docket No. FMCSA-2017-0054 once the document is published in the Federal Register on Friday, June 9.

.

[Underdog]

WOW Imagine that... UPS asking for an exemption. Because the new rules don't make sense? This is why a large blanket policy rulemaking won't even work for large carriers. Just the same as small fleets and owner operators have been screaming, ELDs will cost time and money. UPS's solution seems to make sense, maybe rather than an exemption for one carrier, FMCSA should take the advice of motor carriers and apply some of their thinking across the board for all carriers. The government could learn a thing or two from UPS about efficiency and productivity.

[BillyT]

I predict the new regs will assure that 2000 and earlier model trucks will be kept in serviceable condition until the frames literally disintegrate from metal fatigue lol! Perhaps a new era for " glider kits"😁 Keith, they did it for Penn Central r.r for years!

[BillyT]

UD,what a crock of s...t! UPS is what they say they are "the tightest ship in the shipping industry!" Anything the " fed"  touches they screw up! It reminds me of the years of nonsense preceding the initiation of the cdl! Only ten times worse! I've heard UPS is tough to work for, but if they ran America we'd save billions!

[BillyT]

Marcel,I almost forgot about the "critical" measurement between the mudflap and the ground! Potentially fatal if too low or too high!😁 You may have read about Florida being short of troopers (over 200) Due to the lowest starting pay in the nation 33000.oo so DOT officers may be in short supply! Are your plants inspected by any agency? Don't know if you are old enough to remember  "Waldo Willy"  or the "Silver Bullet" were two local cops on 301 north of Ocala, the originals retired years ago but their replacements kept the nicknames! The "Silver Bullet" according to triple A wrote more tickets than any cop in Florida,or possibly in America! And his little town only had 90 ft of frontage on 301! "Waldo Willy" was actually replaced by a lady officer in the 90s! I called her "Waldo Willamena" 

[Marcel67]

😂😂🤣

 

[kscarbel2]

UPS seeks technical exemptions from ELD mandate

Fleet Owner  /  June 12, 2017

UPS says requests would save money without hurting safety.

United Parcel Service (UPS) has asked the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) for technical exemptions to the electronic logging mandate scheduled for implementation in December.

The company said the requests would save money while not having any negative effect on highway safety. FMCSA is accepting public comment on the requests until July 10.

First, the Atlanta-based company is asking for a tweak to the timetable for fleets using compliant automatic on-board recording devices (AOBRDs). They can legally be used until December 2019, if already installed on a vehicle. UPS said the decision to permit "grandfathering" only on a vehicle, and not a fleet-wide, basis is problematic as it moves forward with plans to purchase new trucks and complete a transition to electronic logging devices (ELDs) on a site-by-site basis.

“If no temporary exemption were granted, large carriers would be required to use ELDs in all of the new tractors delivered after Dec. 18. 2017. The result would be that UPS facilities that had not been converted as of that date would have both vehicles using ELDs at the same time,” the company said.

In order to more easily complete the transition, UPS has requested approval to allow the installation of AOBRDs on new trucks delivered after December, while also ensuring all vehicles will be fully ELD-compliant by the December 2019 deadline.

UPS also is seeking an exemption from the requirement that ELDs automatically record data when a driver indicates a change of duty status, and when an authorized user logs into or out of an ELD. UPS said as part of its agreement with the Teamsters union, drivers use electronic devices to record work beyond driving, which could include attending safety meetings or training.

“UPS cannot both comply with the requirement that an ELD record tractor data when a driver logs in or out (or otherwise changes duty status while outside of the vehicle) and also comply with our bargaining unit contract and pay guidelines for our drivers” the company said.   

In addition, UPS requested a temporary exemption for a special driving mode for yard moves that will not require a driver to repeatedly indicate that status.

“The ELD rule would require drivers to manually change duty status twice for every move they complete in the yard, which could mean entering manual changes as many as 20 times in an hour,” UPS said.

The carrier said approval of an exemption to remain in yard move status under specific speed and geo-fence parameters, it could save could save more than $450,000 with no safety downside.

Finally, UPS is seeking an alteration to the requirement an ELD automatically record data when the engine is powered up or powered down. The company said it uses 1,434 people to wash or fuel vehicles, who often move commercial vehicles strictly within UPS yards.

“Therefore, insofar as the ELD regulations would require recordation of engine data for in yard operation of UPS vehicles by non-driver employees, that requirement would impose a significant burden on UPS. While it would be possible to provide these employees with portable ELDs to record engine data, doing so would be extremely costly,” the company said.

It estimates the cost would top $1 million dollars, and it is seeking an alternative approach to track vehicle usage by wash and fuel employees on company property, such as exempting vehicle usage when travel is less than 1 mile.

[HeavyGunner]

Ups is just trying to hold off of complying. Our elogs automatically change duty status for you so there goes that argument. Also on any given day my elog can crap out and I'm required to do written logs. Again not impossible like UPS says. Ups is bitching because of "time and money costs"?! Damn wonder what our resident troll has to say about that since everyone else's concern over lost time and money was stupid since UPS (I'm paraphrasing here) has been doing it for years? Oh the crow has to taste bad when you've harped on all of us dumb truckers. 

Edited June 14, 2017 by HeavyGunner

[HeavyGunner]

On 4/26/2017 at 6:18 PM, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Much ado about nothing... I haven't done paper logs in over two decades, starting using electronic logs at UPS back in the early 90s. As far as pre 2000 trucks hanging around to avoid ELDs, most of those old trucks are on runs that are already exempt from logbook requirements.

Here's the exact quote I was looking for in the above post. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

The problem is one of incompatibility- UPS has an ELD system that fulfilled the legal logbook requirements and worked fine for decades. Instead of using UPS system as a model, DOT cranked out their own requirements.

[Underdog]

The problem is one of incompatibility- UPS has an ELD system that fulfilled the legal logbook requirements and worked fine for decades. Instead of using UPS system as a model, DOT cranked out their own requirements.

Part of the compliance issue going into the deadline is nobody knows what is a compliant device?!? FMCSA has not clarified the definition. I predict a delay because enforcement is not even ready for this December 18 mandate. Not going to bother me in the least I'll be going down the road in my 1985 cabover making money regardless.

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[TeamsterGrrrl]

You're probably right about the delay, but trying to make a living with a 1985 truck, even one of the best like a Mack MH, is a tougher job than any ELD mandate.

[Underdog]

You're probably right about the delay, but trying to make a living with a 1985 truck, even one of the best like a Mack MH, is a tougher job than any ELD mandate.

Trying to make a living with an ELD and an unreliable EGR/SCR truck and a $2500 note each month is far more challenging, I say.

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[TeamsterGrrrl]

Not if you're getting 8 MPG in a newer truck vs. 6 MPG in an old truck.

[Underdog]

Not if you're getting 8 MPG in a newer truck vs. 6 MPG in an old truck.

Most of what I read on this very forum, owners struggle to achieve 6mpg in new trucks. Plus the cost of DEF. Plus the cost of downtime. I fell for it once in my career, not gonna be persuaded to buy new again. I traded a E9 MH in 2000 on a brand new CX. Took a long time for me to accept the fact that I did end up with a good truck, but the cost benefits I was promised never materialized. I got a steady 5 mpg with 2 different V8s I owned, and my CX never got over 6 mpg. I don't work for UPS, I don't haul cardboard boxes and foam peanuts. Put 25 ton on the back of any truck new or old and you'll be right around 6mpg.

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[Underdog]

Not if you're getting 8 MPG in a newer truck vs. 6 MPG in an old truck.

Most of what I read on this very forum, owners struggle to achieve 6mpg in new trucks. Plus the cost of DEF. Plus the cost of downtime. At least my downtime is mitigated by the lack of monthly payment. I fell for it once in my career, not gonna be persuaded to buy new again. I traded a E9 MH in 2000 on a brand new CX. Took a long time for me to accept the fact that I did end up with a good truck, but the cost benefits I was promised never materialized. I got a steady 5 mpg with 2 different V8s I owned, and my CX never got over 6 mpg. I don't work for UPS, I don't haul cardboard boxes and foam peanuts. Put 25 ton on the back of any truck new or old and you'll be right around 6mpg.

 

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