More Suburban "fun"...

[RowdyRebel]

Ok, so day 2 had it out at the farm. On the way there I discovered that if you're sitting at a red light idling, then go straight to WOT, it stumbles pretty hard & ALMOST stalled...long enough for me to think "#?*@"...but when I let up on the throttle, it fired back off again, romp on it again and STILL beat the fool who was 3 cars back and had changed lanes into the open lane next to me through the intersection. It is MUCH quicker than it used to be...still a bit of a dog below about 2000-2500...but then it takes off. I have 2 shift programs in there..."economy" shifts at about 4K @ WOT, and "towing" is set for 5K. When it hits 2nd in the towing program, it hits hard and leaves that car that THOUGHT it was keeping up with you in the dust.

 

Yeah, I was beating the snot out of it yesterday, finding out what it would do, and trying to find any potential issues before the wife starts using it again as her daily driver. First 87 miles on the tank were with the old TBI, which was only getting us 6 mpg. I drove it around for another 123 miles with a very heavy foot, including some time on the farm delimbing some trees that had been cut, bucking them up into manageable size logs, loading them on a trailer, and taking them over to one of the barns to be cut to length and split for firewood. There's a small, gravel hill getting up to that barn, and I stopped. Started easing into the throttle and around 1625 rpm it started rolling forward. Got into it a little more, and at 1850 rpm it started spinning the tires. Hell, on Dec 17 (when the ignition module left us stuck on the side of the interstate in an ice storm), 

Damn. Dallas/Boston saw a fight not 2 seconds after the puck dropped...

Anyway, as I was saying...back on the 17th of December, it didn't even want to spin the tires ON ICE! So, I'm pretty stoked about it spinning the tires on gravel with a tongue-heavy loaded trailer behind it.

 

But anyway, fueled up on my way home...210 miles on the tank and it took a hair over 29 gallons, which is about 7.25 mpg. Considering the first almost half of the miles were at about 6, and the second part were extremely heavy footed, I'd be surprised if we're not back into the 10's driving like we normally would. I was hoping for 12-14, and once we know exactly where we're at, I'll have a chat with the chip guy to see how we can tweak the programming. I don't like it hesitating and stumbling on a quick take-off, and has always been slow to return to idle when you rev it up in neutral. I just want to have a good idea on where it's at and what it needs before I have him tweak it.

 

Still can't wait until the wife and I have a day off together and we can hook the horse trailer up and load a couple horses to go for a ride off the farm...that'll be the real test. Right now, I'm happy though. It can hit 65-70 mph by the end of an up hill merge ramp from a stop at the bottom of the ramp. Used to be, we'd be on the interstate and have to crest the hill before it'd see 70.

[RowdyRebel]

Ok, add a new alternator to the list of parts. Old one was getting EXTREMELY hot to the touch rather quickly (burned my hand about a minute after firing it up with the new TBI), so I figured it was best to get it off there before it left us stranded...again. Picked up a 105 amp unit from Napa yesterday and put it on last night. Funny thing is, after getting the new alternator on, firing it up, and letting it run for a couple minutes, the old alternator was STILL warmer than the new alternator that was on and running. Damn battery idiot light is still on, though. It's got a new battery & alternator, and everything seems to be working as it's supposed to, so I'm stumped as to the cause of the light.

[41chevy]

2 hours ago, RowdyRebel said:

Ok, add a new alternator to the list of parts. Old one was getting EXTREMELY hot to the touch rather quickly (burned my hand about a minute after firing it up with the new TBI), so I figured it was best to get it off there before it left us stranded...again. Picked up a 105 amp unit from Napa yesterday and put it on last night. Funny thing is, after getting the new alternator on, firing it up, and letting it run for a couple minutes, the old alternator was STILL warmer than the new alternator that was on and running. Damn battery idiot light is still on, though. It's got a new battery & alternator, and everything seems to be working as it's supposed to, so I'm stumped as to the cause of the light.

Check your engine to body grounds and also look for a shorted  or bad connection in  the No. 1 terminal on the alternator, this wire goes directly to the indicator lamp in the dash. From the indicator lamp another wire goes to the IGN terminal on the ignition switch in the column. Some Chevies also had a back feed through the idiot light tied into the reverse light fuse. See if the light goes out or dims when you put it in reverse.

[RowdyRebel]

Haven't noticed that, but I haven't paid that close attention to it either. I know it doesn't go out...but dimming? I'll have to see.

 

Looked like there was a fusible link on one of the wires bolted to the stud on the back...that wire was sparking when it'd touch anything else...even the other wire that was bolted on with it. (yeah, I know they say "disconnect the battery" before you get to work, but they say that for just about everything in those silly manuals).

 

Anyway, I don't know how long the issue has existed...perhaps the battery light bulb was burned out before. Been on ever since I installed the new gauges, and yes, I double checked the dash wiring to make sure the proper wire was run to the light.

[Ol2Stroker]

You've made a whole bunch more progress on yours than I have on mine since I was last here!!!! After doing the brakes over front and rear and the entire front end of ours I finally found a deal on the set of axles I wanted. Scored a set of 4.56 gear m1028 1 ton axles with Detroit lockers front and rear for a song. Currently half wire wheeled and drained waiting for me to have time and ambition for that project. Also need to figure out why it basically stops running when warm and fabricate a shift linkage from scratch (GOD DAMN SWAP HEADERS. Never again). Right now I'm in the middle of re-swapping my pickup truck and 10,000 customer projects. Looking like nothings going to get done this year for me, I'm envious.

[Ol2Stroker]

Any updates? I've managed to get both 1 ton axles totally rebuilt with chromoly stubs in the front and chromoly yukon lockouts. Also installed crossover steering and hydraulic assist with a larger reservoir and big pump. I think the steering upgrades made more difference to driveability than the LS did. I also did rear disc conversion and a shackle flip in the rear to get rid of the lift block. As for the LS I fixed a lot of little bugs (one of which was a bum fuel pump even though it was new) and I did fab that shift linkage works mint now. I've been spending some time updating the tune now. Here's a couple updated pics. Hope you are having better luck with yours!

[h67st]

Wayne, that's a nice-looking Suburban...looks like you have no problem getting around in the snow or mud.

[Ol2Stroker]

Thanks! Does pretty good so far. I need to swap gears again I thought the 4.56 would do it but it needs 5.38s. stupid tires.

[Freightrain]

Man, I wish I had pictures from back in the 80's.  My best friend in school build a very similar truck was two tone blue 78?.  Wasn't 1 ton running gear, only 3/4 ton.  Stock had 400, but bought a 427 from a friend and put in.  Man, did we have fun in that.  Headers and thrush cherry bombs with straight 10ft of pipe right out the back.  You could hear it coming for miles!!!  4" axle, 3" body lift.  I think he had 38's on it mostly.   Back then bumper laws were laxed, but in the early 90's they really started cracking down on it.  I don't really remember when it finally got rid of it?

[Ol2Stroker]

This little old 5.3 had no trouble destroying the front Dana44 had to swap to 1 tons, wasn't even an option. lol It's got long tube headers going into 3" stainless hand fabricated dual exhaust coming out the sides with 2 of the smallest race mufflers magnaflow makes. It's ear piercing I should've went out the back. Sounds like NHRA when you open it up, I want to put bigger mufflers on it but my crazy wife loves it. lol This picture everything was just tacked, it's all tig welded now.

[RowdyRebel]

Well, I might be in some hot water this summer.  I'm not happy with the fact that I lost 2 mpg with the new engine...down to 9.25 mpg, which is back where it was with the old TH400.  I was hoping for a 2 mpg change in the OTHER direction, and would've been happy with 12-14 mpg, considering it was already at 11.25 mpg with the old motor and 4L85E.  That Vortec 350 just ain't doing what I thought it'd do, and to top it off it STILL feels sluggish.  1st gear it holds its own.  2nd gear is OK.  3rd  it's a dog...and good luck if there is ANY kind of head wind and you're trying to run 4th gear.

 

Anyway, I was looking.  Jegs has 454 crate engines for less than $6300...which is what I wanted in the first place, but I was on a somewhat limited budget and a tight timeframe so a 350 to 350 swap seemed like the way to go.  Now, the timeframe isn't so urgent, and I just got a line on a mid-80's 3/4 ton Chevy 4x4...regular cab, long bed for $500.  If I can use the transfer case, it would be worth it just for that (I don't have low range in the Suburban...just grinds).  Extra bonus?  It has a 454 and TH400...meaning I could swap most of the accessories and brackets over (unless they are the same as what I've already got...new p/s pump, alternator, and a/c compressor).  Probably put a new distributor and carburetor on, but that should pretty much be the only "extras" I'd have to buy.

 

I don't mind a gas hog IF it can get out of its own way and pull a trailer with ease.  Pisses me off, though, that my F250 with the 460 under the hood is more fuel efficient than the Suburban with the 350.  I can do donuts on dry pavement in the F250...the Suburban can't even break a tire loose on gravel.  It really is pathetic.

 

Anyway, when I mentioned what I wanted to do to the wife, she says "We have enough money tied up in that thing."  I'm not happy with it, though.  My buddy's going to get back to me as to what t-case is in that old Chevy.  I figure I could swap the t-cases, then when I pull what I need off it to swap the 454 into the Suburban, I can either drop the 350 into the old Chevy (probably have to buy a distributor and intake manifold and put an electric fuel pump then drop the old carb off the 454 on it) and try to sell it as a running truck for at least the $500+parts I needed to get it running, or just part it out and get back enough to offset some of the cost of the crate 454.

 

[RowdyRebel]

Well, yesterday was just one of those days.  Had to pick up the horse from the vet, and was going to take the F250 but decided the Suburban could handle it, and be more comfortable since the wife & kid would be with me.  Got to the farm to grab the trailer, and as I was backing up to it, the rear was sliding sideways down the hill.  So, I figured I'd pull up and start my approach higher to compensate.  Put it in 4wd, and tried pulling forward.  Spun the rear tires, sliding even closer to another trailer.  Had to call the farmhand to pull me up the hill to try again backing in to hook to the trailer.
 

So, I get out and unhook the chains, and I had the window about 3/4 of the way down so I could talk as we were working, and I'd be able to hear the boy if he woke up.  Anyway, I climb back in the truck and pull the door closed and the damn driver's window shatters.  So, needless to say the wife is OK with buying that old Chevy truck...transfer case, possibly front hubs (if not the entire axle), driver's side glass and window track...

 

And she doesn't know it yet, but that 454 is going to happen if we buy that old truck.  I'm just tired of a truck as thirsty as this thing is that still can't get out of its own way.  I don't mind a thirsty truck IF it's got something to show for it...and a gutless wonder that sips fuel is somewhat tolerable for around town BS...but I absolutely have no use for a thirsty gutless wonder.

 

The GM Performance 454 from Jegs ought to work well for what we're needing it for.  8.75:1 compression ought to even run on the cheap gas. 438 HP @ 5300 RPM
500 ft/lbs TQ @ 3500 RPM should work well with the 2200 stall torque converter I've got.  Basically it'll be a "pull the 350 out, drop the 454 in, move the accessories from the old truck to the new motor" deal.  Put a regulator in the fuel line (old truck has a mechanical pump on the motor...Suburban has the pump in the tank), new distributor (because why not?) and we're in business.  Then I won't mind getting 10 mpg with it anymore, and it'll never feel like it's "struggling" to just run down the road, let alone pull a trailer with a horse or two inside.

 

[RowdyRebel]

Welp, done screwed the pooch on the 454 hopes.  Talked to my neighbor who likes to play in the mud and he said the 4wd malfunction was most likely the hubs not locking in...so he gave me a mismatched set of used manual lockers.  He also had an old truck he was going to junk when prices come back up that had the window and window track I needed.  So, we'll be all fixed up without spending a dime.  Transfer case seemed to be working just fine the other day, spinning the front drive shaft while the rear tires were spinning (I was stuck).  Crawled under there tonight and spun the drive shaft by hand and the axle shafts turned, so the spider gears are intact...which is a bit of a bummer, because it would've given me a perfect excuse to buy the Detroit Tru-track for that front axle.  Want to do both, but they'll have to wait 'til I need one or both or have the spare cash laying around.  Ain't cheap, but it'll make it a little more capable.

 

So anyway, since I won't have a 454 laying around here, I've been looking at ways to maybe bring this 350 up to where I expect it to be.  I'm thinking about ditching the stupid computer (too old to have any programmers I can tweak and fine tune).  That means replacing the TBI intake manifold for a 4bbl carb manifold, putting a carburetor on it, regulating the fuel pressure down from 12 to 5 or 6 psi, and swapping the distributor out for one with vacuum advance instead of the electronic BS I have now.  Moroso has a decent enough looking one that comes with various weight springs and such to adjust both mechanical and vacuum advance to tune it to suit your needs.

 

I need to put an air/fuel mixture gauge on there to confirm my thoughts that it's running rich right now, which would explain a low-power/crappy fuel mileage scenario...I just don't have any way to correct that right now with the current computer controls.

 

As soon as I get those locking hubs installed, I'll jack up the rear of the truck and see if the front axle will pull it off the jack stands.  If it does, problem solved.  If not, might still grab that old truck after all for the t-case.  Guess time will tell.

 

[j hancock]

Sounds like you have a plan.......

Interested to see if a carb will wake the 350 up.

[RowdyRebel]

Got a friend telling me I ought to spend $100 more for the air-gap intake (1500-6500) instead of the regular one (idle-5500)...but the cam I put in there is only idle-5000, so I'm not certain I'd see much benefit from that $100.  Also, kicking myself for not looking into oem replacement manifolds when I put in the exhaust.  Had I spent the $155 and pulled those ridiculous long tube headers off, I could've used the oem replacement Y-pipe without hacking it up and rewelding it to use all of the angles, and it probably wouldn't be leaking at the flanges where the rest of the exhaust bolts onto the headers.  So, I'll probably do that as well.  This thing needs more low and mid...so those high-flowing headers really aren't necessary and are causing more headaches than they are worth.

 

Looking at Rochester remanned Quadrajets from Jet...not sure if I ought to go with the stage 1 or stage 2.  Stage 1 says "This Carburetor is NOT intended for engines with RV or Performance type Camshafts" ...but the stage 2 says "Camshaft Specifications: Duration @ .050 Min. 210 Degrees, Max. 220 Degrees Lobe Seperation Angle 110 - 112 Degrees".  My cam is 206 intake/210 exhaust, and 111 separation.  In other words, I'm too modified for the stage 1, not quite modified enough for stage 2.  Probably have to call and discuss and have it built.  That's for an 800 cfm light truck carb.

 

Roughly $1000 and hopefully I'll be able to get it dialed in.  Probably be a few months, though...wait for warmer weather to be outside fiddling with it.

[j hancock]

Skip the Air Gap.  You need torque down low for trailer pulling. 

May not be a problem but for a daily driver having something with an intake exhaust crossover will help with carb icing.  Sucks to be running errands during the winter and the carb freezes.

[Ol2Stroker]

ugh that doesn't sound like any fun at all.

[RowdyRebel]

Well, starting to put together a list to place another order...Edelbrock Performer dual plane intake manifold, still a toss-up on the carburetor (leaning toward a Jet remanned 800 cfm stage 2 Quadrajet for light trucks), but also need a TPS to run the transmission controller. US Shift has some listed on their site, but none say they are specifically for the Quadrajet.  Then there's the distributor...thinking a Proform (officially licensed by GM) with mechanical and vacuum advance ought to do the trick...hoping to find one compatible with the hydraulic roller cam I have or at least uses the same size drive gear that I already have so I can just swap it over.

 

That right there ought to get it running a little better.  Also going to yank those silly long tube headers off and go back to OEM exhaust manifolds.  Thought about putting shorties on there, but from what I'm reading there isn't enough gain in power to justify paying twice as much as the OEM replacement manifolds.  Why? Because I want to get another Y-pipe (had to cut the one I bought into 100 pieces and weld it back together...and it's got a few leaks as a result).  Having a one-piece Y-pipe will eliminate 99% of the exhaust leaks on the truck.

Last up is fixing the driver's side window.  Probably going to order new glass, wing window, track, etc...got to be able to roll the window up and down without it jumping out of the track or getting stuck...otherwise, it'll be a very uncomfortable trip to Texas in a few months.

I'm really hoping these changes will get us up into the 12-14 mpg range I was hoping for with the new motor, because we WERE at 11.25 mpg before the swap to the Vortec heads.  Sitting at 7.75 mpg right now, and the sad thing is I can get that all day long out of the 460 in the F250 pulling the 4-horse gooseneck around.

 

Still need to do the body mounts, too.  Bought a 3/4" drive 3/4" socket, because my 1/2" drive impact and ratchets just weren't breaking them loose.  I don't care much for reducers if I can find the proper size socket in a bigger drive.  Guess I ought to get to work on it...

 

[h67st]

7.75 mpg! That's bad...I thought 9 mpg in my truck was bad.

[1965]

This is interesting; if you get better mpg out of a carburetor than efi. That would be my first.

[RowdyRebel]

31 minutes ago, 1965 said:

This is interesting; if you get better mpg out of a carburetor than efi. That would be my first.

Problem now is it's running stupid rich (so much so that it will occasionally continue running for a few seconds after you shut off the key), wasting a bunch of fuel.  That and the little 2bbl primative EFI isn't up to the task with the Vortec heads and free-flowing exhaust...so even if it wasn't running so rich, it is sucking air in through a straw and not living up to it's potential in the power dept.  800 cfm carburetor can be tuned...idle adjusted, needles and jets adjusted...not to mention having the ability to control the spark advance (which I think is set rather conservatively, because I told the chip maker I wanted to run the cheap gas...NOT the premium he "recommended".  To have that chip reprogrammed to fix the over-fueling/spark advance issues involves pulling the chip, mailing it to him, he takes another stab at it, mails it back to me, and 2 or 3 weeks later I get to see if it is a good change or not...and if not, repeat.  Who has time for that?  Carburetors and distributors can be tinkered with whenever I've got a few spare moments.  Once it's dialed in, it'll run better...like I said, the old worn out & inefficient 190 hp engine was giving us 11.25 mpg.  This one (with 1996-2000 intake) is rated 60-100 hp higher.  More power is usually more efficient, because you spend less time and effort getting going.  I was honestly expecting 12-14 mpg.  Dad had a '97 Chevy Express van, same engine (minus the cam), same transmission, 4.11 rears instead of the 3.73's, and 235/85R16 tires instead of the 285/75R16's we've got...and he was getting 14 mpg with that, so I know it CAN be done...just got to get it tuned right.

[1965]

800cfm sure seems to be a bunch for a sb. Idk but seems like too much cam for that tall of gear for that size tire; for pulling trailers & such. Just an opinion; I hope it works out for you.

[RowdyRebel]

The cam really isn't all that extreme...

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=197&sb=2

...actually, the cam is just a hair mild for the stage 2:

https://www.jegs.com/i/JET-Performance/561/36002/10002/-1

"This Carburetor is intended for 305,350 & 400c.i. Chevy Truck engines with mild performance upgrades..."

 

[RowdyRebel]

Got a big 'ol pile of parts sitting in the office waiting for tomorrow. Spent last weekend under the truck reworking the exhaust...ditched the long tube headers and put manifolds on...and the Y-pipe that was SUPPOSED to fit, didn't.  Couple cuts, couple welds, and we're good to go...not near as extreme as the modifications I needed to make to that pipe with the headers.  This weekend's job? Pull the manifold and replace with the Edelbrock dual plane, mount the Stage 2 Quadrajet (which I almost didn't get...Jegs is "vendor ship" and the vendor wasn't going to have any ready 'til the middle of next month.  Summit had 'em in stock, though, so cancelled the order w/ Jegs and placed it w/ Summit), and insert the new distributor.  I've got the adapter to go from the 3/8" ORB fuel supply line to the regulator, but won't have the 5/16" ORB adapter until the middle of next week.  Only other thing I'm missing is the pigtail for the electric choke...also on order.  By next weekend, it should be back up and running...hopefully with a little better fuel mileage and a lot more power.

Edited July 28, 2018 by RowdyRebel

[RowdyRebel]

Well, just finished the exhaust.  Had 3 welds on the Y-pipe to finish it up, as well as bending a piece of 1/2" rebar and welding it on for a hanger...then trim the remaining bit of old Y-pipe off the front of the catalytic converter so I could weld in a straight 3" piece to connect to the new Y.  Used a ball flange connector between the Y and the cat, so instead of the entire exhaust being 1 piece from the headers back to the tailpipe, I can disconnect it half way.  Anyway, this new set-up looks MUCH better...less bends, a ton less welds (even though I had to modify the Y-pipe...again...it isn't as severe as the old one).  Lots of zigs and zags are gone.  Both sides of the Y are approximately the same length, too...about 6" longer on the passenger side...and it gets to a single 3" about 2' closer to the engine and from there, it's a straight shot back through the cat & muffler.  Tailpipe bends over the axle and out the side, still.  Kind of funny, though.  Everything BEFORE the cat is brand new.  Most people put "cat back" systems on if they do any exhaust modifications.  Then again, when you're starting with a 3" Magnaflow cat and 3" 70 series Flowmaster muffler and Flowmaster's 3" tailpipe kit already on the vehicle, you don't really have to modify that, so perhaps I'm not as strange as it sounds...

 

Anyway, time to take it for a test drive to see if my Redneck Engineering fix solved the issue with the cruise control not working.  If it did and the cruise doesn't work after I swap in the carburetor, I'll know that without the computer, I won't have cruise.  If I DON'T find out if it's working before tearing into it, I'll always be wondering if I CAN fix it.  Not having it isn't really THAT big of a deal...but it'll be great if it works and STILL works after I get done.