More Suburban "fun"...

[RowdyRebel]

All I can say is...
DAMN!!!!

This thing can get out of its own way now!  Idle mixture is a little rich, so I'll have to adjust that a little...a little run-on if its sat idling for a while before shutting it off...but DAMN!!!  It gets up to speed and is still going strong when I lift my foot off the throttle, and when those secondaries open, DAMN!!! It's like someone kicked on the afterburners.  I also need to pick up a return spring for the throttle.

 

I can't wait to see how it does hooked to a trailer.  That and the fuel mileage...although for that I'm really going to have to work hard at keeping my foot off the fun pedal.  I'm hoping it'll hit that 12-14 mpg range...but again, I'm going to have to keep my foot out of it for that to happen.

 

Those ORB fittings I got weren't right, so I ended up cutting the steel lines and running rubber hoses with hose clamps.  The Holley bypass regulator is pissing me off, though...set it for 6, and it'll jump to 9. Back it down to 6 again and it'll drop to 3.  Don't really know if its the regulator or the gauge...just the cheapest 0-15 psi gauge Jegs had.  I saw a gauge at auto zone I might pick up to try in order to eliminate the gauge as the problem.  Pulled power for the electric choke off one of the wires that used to power the injectors...12V, powers up with the key...seems to be working.  Good news is that the check engine light isn't on (worried it might be, since the computer is no longer connected to spark or fuel).  Bad news is the cruise control no longer works.  I glanced over the schematics and the ECM is not in the loop, but I guess other sensors and such are involved that are no longer hooked up.  Not really that big of a deal (I say now...might change my mind on our upcoming family vacation)...2 travel days will be 6 hours, 1 will be 4 hours, and 1 will be 15 hours...fun.

 

Anyway, during the test drive I had a little scare.  Mashed the gas and enjoying the acceleration when all of a sudden there was a pop and things got loud.  "CRAP!"  Turned out to be not that big of a deal.  The manifolds I put on had bungs for emissions stuff that was on vehicles that these manifolds will fit.  I snugged up 1 on each (by cylinders 1 & 2) but completely missed the one on the driver's side down by where the Y bolts up.  That one vibrated loose and blew out...and worst part is I don't have any 3/8" black pipe plugs laying around where I can find them.  So, it'll be a loud ride to town tomorrow.  I'm thinking I'll use a little red loc-tite on it when I put it in, and pull out the other 2 to loc-tite them in as well.

 

Anyway, let the fine-tuning begin.  Should've done this with the new motor a couple years ago instead of trying to keep the old TBI.  This really made that 350 come alive.

 

 

[j hancock]

Nothing better than moving forward.

[RowdyRebel]

So I've got a little pinging at partial throttle, and that's with the timing dialed back as far as I can and still have it run.  A couple bottles of octane boost helped, but didn't solve the problem...a band-aid, so to speak, while I get 'er dialed in.  I'm thinking heavier springs in the distributor to slow that advance curve down a tad, and perhaps dial back the vacuum advance as well by a couple degrees to allow me to turn the initial timing back up to where it ought to be.  The good news is that with the octane boost in the tank, the run-on situation has been temporarily halted.  Got the special tool on its way to adjust the idle mix and start tweaking on it.  Almost 100 miles on this tank and the needle is still on "F" ...a good sign.  Also put some really damn stiff throttle return springs (double spring set-up) on there to discourage and counteract my heavy foot.

 

And one more thing...a damn coolant leak at the thermostat.  I had one of those aluminum gaskets with the rubber inserts that are SUPPOSED to be reuseable...but they ain't.  So, rather than paying another $18 for one of those hunks of junk, I paid $2 for the paper gasket.  Got to drain the coolant...again...

[RowdyRebel]

Ok...so I got a spring kit for the distributor and put the middle-weight springs in.  Left the old weights and bushings, though, because it IS a brand new distributor.  New springs felt about the same as the ones I pulled out...perhaps just a hair heavier if anything, which is what I wanted.  Also pulled the vacuum advance canister off while I had it opened up to figure out WHY it wasn't adjusting.  Turns out, they included THE WRONG SIZE allen key with the distributor!!!  Damn thing needed a 2.5mm, NOT the 3/32" they sent in the box.  Once I figured that out, I used my Harbor Freight pneumatic brake bleeder (which works GREAT, by the way, if you've got brake work to do) as a vacuum pump (it'll pull 20+" on the gauge) and set the vacuum advance about half way between everything (where it WAS) and nothing (which really makes it not want to get the truck moving...discovered that when I unplugged the vacuum advance to test if it would still ping).  Mission accomplished!  No more pinging...will have to wait until the octane boost has been diluted out after a tank or two before I do any more tuning on the ignition...hate to put in the time & effort to get it perfect only to fill up with 87 octane and have it start pinging again.  Now that I know what size wrench it needs, I'll be able to tweak it as we go.

 

What's frustrating me NOW, though, is this stupid driver's side window.  It shattered on me last winter out by the horses...was hooking up to the horse trailer and talking to the farm hand, so the window was down.  When I closed it, it exploded inside the door.  Neighbor was getting ready to scrap an old square body pickup, so he gave me the door glass...which sort of worked.  It filled the hole and kept the rain out, but every time I'd try to put it down it would fall out of the track...and as long as the interior door panel wasn't on there yet, I could reach in, reset the glass in the track, and help it up.  So, ordered all of the window track pieces from LMC to try to fix that problem, and ATTEMPTED to order new window glass from the local glass shop (figured they could fix it when they put the new window in)...but their supplier didn't have any.  So, I figured I'd tear into it and replace the track this morning...except everything seems to be working JUST FINE now.  We've had that damn switch taped over for 6 months so that we wouldn't accidently lower the window and have it jump out of the track, and here it is working perfectly.  Don't know how or why it suddenly decided to work right, either...so I'm reluctant to tear out the old track and replace it with the new when there doesn't seem to be anything wrong.  Like they say, "if it ain't broke..."  I did spray some lubricating oil into the metal guide on the bottom edge of the glass...probably should have wire-wheeled it before I put it in.  Regulator seems to struggle a little putting it up and down, but it's getting better.  Window doesn't QUITE go all of the way up (don't think it's the EXACT glass...but was close enough for what I needed back then, and the price was right)...about 99.99% of the way, with just a SLIGHT gap at the back edge.  Don't know that replacing the window track would do much to solve that, though.

 

Oh well...guess I'll put the door panel back in and we'll keep the new window track pieces in the truck so IF it jumps out again, I can fix it then.

 

[RowdyRebel]

1st fill-up after topping off the tank following the carburetor install and I'm liking the initial numbers...we picked up 3 mpg, so we're back over 10 and almost into the 11's.  Best part is, I haven't even started fine-tuning the carburetor yet.  There's a slight stumble off idle that needs adjusting, and also I think it's idling a hair rich.  Finally got the idle adjusting tool to turn those screws, so I just have to hook up the vacuum gauge and get to tinkering with it.  I backed off the vacuum advance 1 turn when I filled up, because there was some slight pinging when it would shift gears and the RPM's would drop...and filling up with 87 and diluting the octane boost I had added previously wouldn't make the situation any better on its own.  That made the stumble a little worse, though, so I think I'll throw the heavier distributor springs in there and add that turn back to the vacuum advance...might even go a turn and a half to compensate for the decrease in mechanical advance.

 

This is the exact reason why I made the swap...i can work with mechanical stuff I can tinker with and adjust.  That TBI was too primitive to have any self-tuners available...had to pull the chip and send it off to be reflashed with another guess, and then hope it works when you get it back 2-3 weeks later.  Who has time for that crap?  Especially when the vehicle is a yard ornament until you get the chip back.

 

Anyway, still shooting for 12-14 mpg's out of this thing...don't think that's being TOO unreasonable.

 

[RowdyRebel]

First 2 tanks have been within .05 mpg of hitting 11...and that's with my heavy foot dialing in the timing (trying to eliminate the pinging, as well as loving the acceleration).  Found the adjustment for the partial throttle...supposedly it'll take away the off-idle stumble.  Backed the screw out a half turn, but instead of going home empty and then taking it to town on a test drive to pick up the kid, I had to go to town to grab a load for tomorrow and picked the kid up while I was there.  Timing is ALMOST there...if I go WOT from a stop, it'll rattle a little, and pulling a long hill it's just thinking about it.  I'm thinking another half turn off the vacuum advance and maybe dialing back the initial timing another degree should about do it.  This thing still won't roast the tires on dry pavement, but it'll light 'em up on command if there's any gravel or debris on the pavement.  Not bad for a 7800# tank.  Cruises real nice...80 mph @ 2500 RPM at maybe 1/8-1/4 throttle...not much needed at all, and PLENTY of power in reserve.  Used to be if there was any head wind, I couldn't break through the draft coming off a truck's nose to complete a pass...now, it doesn't even slow down.  In other words, it drives like a vehicle with a 350 OUGHT to drive...'bout damn time is all I can say!  As soon as I get this little off-idle hiccup to go away, it'll be good to go.  Eventually, I'll get a wide band O2 sensor air/fuel ratio gauge to get the jetting and all that dialed in...but for now, I'm happy just being able to drive the thing without holding up traffic...and 3+ mpg better doesn't hurt, either.

[Ezrider]

On 8/8/2018 at 1:09 PM, RowdyRebel said:

So I've got a little pinging at partial throttle, and that's with the timing dialed back as far as I can and still have it run.  A couple bottles of octane boost helped, but didn't solve the problem...a band-aid, so to speak, while I get 'er dialed in.  I'm thinking heavier springs in the distributor to slow that advance curve down a tad, and perhaps dial back the vacuum advance as well by a couple degrees to allow me to turn the initial timing back up to where it ought to be.  The good news is that with the octane boost in the tank, the run-on situation has been temporarily halted.  Got the special tool on its way to adjust the idle mix and start tweaking on it.  Almost 100 miles on this tank and the needle is still on "F" ...a good sign.  Also put some really damn stiff throttle return springs (double spring set-up) on there to discourage and counteract my heavy foot.

 

And one more thing...a damn coolant leak at the thermostat.  I had one of those aluminum gaskets with the rubber inserts that are SUPPOSED to be reuseable...but they ain't.  So, rather than paying another $18 for one of those hunks of junk, I paid $2 for the paper gasket.  Got to drain the coolant...again...

i would ditch the vac advance all together. vac advance has caused me to chase my tail way to many times on tune up issues and does not gain you anything to try to use it. 

 

most idle run ons iv cured with a little more initial advance and backing the idle stop screw back out a little. if your getting into the transition slot at all on your idle speed setting can cause a run on. re curving should cure the pinging. maybe one step colder on the plugs as well

i forget without going back and reading if you have a healthy cam or not but the more cam you have the harder idle is to tune its hard to get the throttle valves closed far enough to be in the idle circuit and still maintain idle. 

you can use a larger advance bushing to limit the total advance to get your initial up without getting too much total advance. 

for idle mix just need a vacuum gauge. start out at 1 1/2 turns out get your initial timing and curb idle screw adjusted then fine tune your idle mix for max idle vacuum. if your not almost stalling out screwed all the way in your throttle blades are still in the transition or have a bad power valve (not likely)

[RowdyRebel]

If I screw 1 idle mix screw all of the way in, it dies before I get there. Right now, I'm at 6-1/2 turns out pulling 19" of vacuum.  It was still inching upwards, but don't know how much more I want or can get considering they say most of these Quadrajets are 3-5 for the ballpark.  Don't want to ditch vacuum advance altogether, because it really could barely get itself moving with it disconnected and plugged.  Got to remember, this is a 7800# tank that will occasionally pull a couple 1000# horses in a 2500# trailer...has to get 10-12K# moving, not just a little 2000# car.  The cam is fairly mild...idle to 5000 range. It's the mildest cam in Comp Cams "xtreme 4x4" line.  I haven't yet touched the idle speed or idle stop...idles around 1000 free, and drops to 650-700 when I drop it into gear.  Don't think I want much lower or it might start stalling out when engaged with the transmission.  With the throttle springs I've got on there, there certainly isn't any issue with closing the throttle, as long as there is no obstruction.

[j hancock]

For modified rigs, I have found running the vacuum advance from a direct vacuum source is better than running from a ported vacuum source.  Ported vacuum came in with all the emission programs.

[RowdyRebel]

I tried that, too...and it not only was dern near impossible to start, but the run-on would happen more often than not.  Seemed like as soon as the engine would start turning over, it was creating enough vacuum to trigger the advance, but the engine wasn't turning fast enough yet and it'd stop the piston on the compression stroke.  Pulling it from a ported source, it starts and runs a lot better.

 

I'll probably run it a little tomorrow to try the part-throttle adjustment.  Probably also back the vacuum off 1/2 turn and the initial off another degree.  Already have the heaviest springs in the distributor...really only pings above 2000 RPM, which should be right in the meat of the torque and power curves.  Have an appointment on Friday (wife will probably have to take it in...if that happens, it'll be the first time she drives it with the new intake) to have some windows tinted...need the barn doors on the back, along with the driver's side rear passenger's door main glass tinted as close to matching the other 3 windows as they can get...along with the top 6" of the windshield.

 

Anyway, it's coming along.  Would happen quicker if I didn't have to work...but gotta pay for all this somehow.  Necessary evil, I guess.

[RowdyRebel]

And the fun continues...or should I say the hits keep coming?

So yesterday I drove the Suburban to work (wife needed the F250 to haul some stuff to town). Anyway, I get off work early enough I figured I could tinker a bit before heading home. Changing the weights in the distributor, one of the little black 5/32" E-clips went flying (never to be seen again).  Boss man lets me borrow his car to run into town to get another one...Napa, Car Quest, Auto Zone, Orscheln, O'Reilly, Buchheit...best I could come up with was a 4mm (0.0312mm too big...which may as well have been 6" too big). So, I'm debating running it home with just 1 E-clip, but when I walked into the office I saw a tiny little paperclip that looked to be about the right thickness...so I snagged it.  Cut the middle-sized bend out of it (which was about the size I needed) and wrapped it all of the way around in the E-clip's groove, leaving the 2 ends on opposite sides of the post.  That seems to be doing the trick...3 HOURS wasted on a 20 second solution.

 

Good news, though, while searching for the E-clip, I discovered the reason it pulls to the left when you first hit the brakes, and then pulls to the right when you let off...damn right side caliper is sticking. Slow to apply (pulls to the left) and slow to release (pulls to the right).  SO slow to release, in fact, that the pads are gone and the backing plate is chewing up the rotor.  Saw metal shavings on the inside of the rim while looking for the E-clip.

 

So, got new calipers, rotors, and pads to put on. Still need to pick up the wheel seals and spindle nut socket for the Dana 44.  Now would also be a damn good time to put some manual lock hubs on it, since the auto locks aren't locking...since it'll all be apart anyway.

 

Also got (another) set of new spark plugs. Had to do some research...needed the 1990 gap (0.035) with the 1996-2000 reach, 1 heat range colder. NGK TR6 fit the bill.  New motor came with TR55's, but the 0.060 gap was burning up ignition modules. Regapped them to 0.035 and problem solved.  New plugs I just installed end of last month are for the 1990 heads (not the '96-'00 Vortec I have now) and the tip doesn't thread in near as far. SIGNIFICANT loss of power as a result!  Dropping the 1 heat range ought to help eliminate what little pinging I'm still getting.  With the lighter weights, I was able to up the initial timing about 3-4 degrees and hear less pinging pulling a hill. Hopefully the new plugs eliminate it altogether (as well as give me my power back!)

 

Fun.

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by RowdyRebel

[j hancock]

The joys of modifying trucks.

[RowdyRebel]

Damn rain...couldn't get a jump on today's project because it was pouring...now can't get to work 'til the boy decides it's nap time. Then I'll have about 3-4 hours to knock it out before he wakes up again.  If I don't get it finished, I'll have tomorrow morning before the wife leaves for work and nap time tomorrow...but I've also got to finish the cover for the trailer and the draw bar for the little tractor tricycle the boy's going to find under the tree in 10 days...

 

So much to do, so little time...

[RowdyRebel]

Ok, so it wasn't the caliper that was bad...

Got the driver's side done & let gravity bleed it for a few minutes until bubbles stopped coming out, then put a little suction to it to make sure it was good.  Went to the passenger side and tried the same thing...nothing. Vacuum wouldn't even suck it out. Disconnected the line and no drip. Step on the brake pedal with the line disconnected and it's a hard pedal. WTF? If I pushed REAL hard on the pedal, I could make it go down, and fluid would come out the disconnected line...but when I'd let up, the pedal was hard again.  Cracked the rubber flex line loose and it started leaking, so I pulled the flex line off and ordered a new one.  I guess the flex line was bad. Enough brake pressure would squeeze fluid down to the caliper, but it would close off again and not allow the pressure to be released. That's why it was slow to apply, and slow to release.  I'll pick up the line after work today and should have 'er back together pretty quick when I get home.

 

Anyway, new calipers, rotors, and pads, cleaned & repacked the wheel bearings, new grease seal, and manual locking hubs.  Kind of glad I had made the decision to change the hubs before I dug into it, because I already had them. Auto-locks come out in a million pieces, with springs and clips and a whole bunch of other stuff to try to stuff in there just right...and when something goes flying, it's a lot easier to say "F-it...don't need it anyway" than it is to spend 3 hours looking for the damn thing.  New line goes on tonight and she'll be road-worthy again.

 

[RowdyRebel]

Got the new line on there, bled it, and it stops nice & straight with no pulling to either side...just like it's supposed to.

 

Now I just have to work on the stumble.  If the engine is cold and you put it in gear, it stalls.  If you mash the throttle (whether it's warmed up or not) it really struggles between 1500 and 2000 RPM (which sucks, because 1600 is about where the torque converter starts turning the wheels if you're pointed up hill). Not sure if it's a carburetor/fuel ratio issue or if I need to replace the ignition wires or tinker with the timing some more. Probably wouldn't hurt to pick up a new set of wires...these are a little on the ragged side.  Picked up a book to read up on all of the little nuances and adjustments on the Quadrajet, and I really need to get a wide band O2 sensor and an air/fuel ratio gauge to go with it...then I can see exactly where it needs to be tweaked and which direction to tweak it.  If the guy who's numbers were on my door most of the year ever pays me what he owes me (or even part of it), I'll probably go ahead and get that.  Until then, I'll just have to deal with what I've got...

[41chevy]

1 hour ago, RowdyRebel said:

Got the new line on there, bled it, and it stops nice & straight with no pulling to either side...just like it's supposed to.

 

Now I just have to work on the stumble.  If the engine is cold and you put it in gear, it stalls.  If you mash the throttle (whether it's warmed up or not) it really struggles between 1500 and 2000 RPM (which sucks, because 1600 is about where the torque converter starts turning the wheels if you're pointed up hill). Not sure if it's a carburetor/fuel ratio issue or if I need to replace the ignition wires or tinker with the timing some more. Probably wouldn't hurt to pick up a new set of wires...these are a little on the ragged side.  Picked up a book to read up on all of the little nuances and adjustments on the Quadrajet, and I really need to get a wide band O2 sensor and an air/fuel ratio gauge to go with it...then I can see exactly where it needs to be tweaked and which direction to tweak it.  If the guy who's numbers were on my door most of the year ever pays me what he owes me (or even part of it), I'll probably go ahead and get that.  Until then, I'll just have to deal with what I've got...

Does the vacuum choke pull off work and is it adjusted to specs? That is a big issue with  QJ's

[RowdyRebel]

 Don't know. All I know for sure at this point is that it's an electric choke and the stumble went from a mild hiccup to a major issue after it sat for 3 or 4 weeks, and that it's less of an issue once it's up to temp.  Tried  running a tank with the cheaper Berryman B12 fuel system cleaner...probably should've used the more expensive Seafoam...but a few tanks of fresh gas later, it's still doing it.

[RowdyRebel]

Update:

Blew a tire on the F250 on my way to work, so been running the Suburban 5 days per week rather than 3. Ran a gallon of Seafoam through it...1 oz per gallon over 4 tanks...and it has cleared up most of the issues created by sitting.  Unfortunately, I left the under-hood light on and it drained the battery...so I jumped it and ever since the transmission has been acting goofy.  Tough to fine tune a carburetor when it isn't shifting right.  Throws a slip code in 4th gear when the torque converter is locked in and I lift off the throttle. Also shifts stupid hard from 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 if the torque converter is locked in...it isn't releasing like it should.  That and when you get on it (like when you're merging onto the highway or pulling out into traffic), it won't hold the lower gears up to the shift point I have programmed in. Instead, it jumps to top gear, bounces between top gear and the gears (4-3-4-3-4-2-4-3-4-3...) with the engine revving up and lugging accordingly.  If I hold the throttle wide open, it'll hold top gear and just lug up to speed.  I've started manually shifting (1-2-D-O) to help stop that, but it's still frustrating.  If I have to manually shift the stupid thing, I may as well put a manual transmission into it...which I actually got the go-ahead from the wife to pursue.  Looking for a NV4500 from an earlier Chevy with the 6.3x 1st and reverse gearing, 32 spline output shaft, and set up for 4wd.  If I'm lucky, I'll find one that came off a 350 motor and had a NP241 transfer case so I'll have the bellhousing and t-case adapter...then it's just a matter of finding clutch parts & pieces and cutting a hole in the floor for the shifter.  The later ones have the Dodge 5.xx ratios...would still work (just not out of a Dodge...23 & 29 spline outputs) but I'd prefer the lower ratio granny & reverse.  That won't be until late summer/fall at the earliest, though, so I'm going to try changing the fluid & filter in the meantime and see if that helps. Even if it does, I'm still swapping in the manual transmission.  I know I started out building this thing for the wife, but she never drives it anyway, so I may as well make it so I can enjoy driving it...