An open letter to the Snowflakes

[Underdog]

So you don't know?

Oh, I do have an opinion, and I think you can come up with a few reasons too why jobs have been outsourced and wages in this country have gone stagnant, and why good companies as well as towns and cities can't meet their outrageous obligations. It's all been discussed here before on several threads. And just like politics, nobody is changing their mind at this point. So like I said there's no point in arguing. I'll just go on with my life making my own way and not asking or relying on anyone else for my livelihood.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

So in other words, you have no facts to back up your outrageous claim...

[Underdog]

I get all my "facts" from the NY Times and PMSNBC.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

OK, so lay out your facts... Or do I have to help you build your losing argument?

[david wild]

Personally I liked what started this thread, but don't like hearing from out of touch people living in their bubble thinking that they are right and the rest of are wrong, unions and their members are the minority and if not for their hostage tactics would have been run off long ago. shutting down a biz to get what you want should be against the law, protest, go to court do what ever but you have no right to put a company out of biz because you want more money, if they can't or won't pay what you want then move on. Can you imagine that if I want GE to pay me for my work and they refuse, that I block their gates and stop their employees from working, I would end up in jail.   

[Underdog]

OK, so lay out your facts... Or do I have to help you build your losing argument?

I already made my statement. I won't be baited into an argument. I think you lose, you think I lose, so who really wins this pointless argument? Like I said nobody is changing their mind anyway.

[1958 F.W.D.]

Unions are WONDERFUL.

Fact: Just ask any ex-employee (who was vested in their pension for 20 or more) of Bethlehem Steel. They will tell you how wonderful their union is. Errrr ahhh I mean was.

If you'd like more factual information I live 10 minutes from (what used to be) Bethlehem Steel's flagship operation in Bethlehem Pa. The Crown Jewel of the largest steel empire in the world. An industrial juggernaut along the Lehigh River that is now a Sands Casino. And a shopping mall. And other dumbassery. What little is left of the steel mill is slowly rotting into oblivion. Let me know if you'd like more facts, I will take pictures. You can also talk to the plethora of my elderly neighbors who were anally raped of their pensions by the Union.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

You have two options: Stay non union and work 'til you die with starvation wages and no benefits. Or join a union and earn decent wages, benefits, health care, vacations, and retirement. Your choice...

[Underdog]

You have two options: Stay non union and work 'til you die with starvation wages and no benefits. Or join a union and earn decent wages, benefits, health care, vacations, and retirement. Your choice...

Or work for yourself and plan accordingly and be beholden to no one... I'd like to do away with Social Security as well... I can get a better return by putting my money in a savings account.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

It's a simple matter of bargaining power... Walmart, Costco, and the big fleets get much lower prices on everything because they can buy in volume. A small retailer, one truck operator, or solitary worker has little bargaining power and has to accept whatever price the big companies offer.

[BillyT]

Teamsters are no better or worse than any other people,I've known I've known lazy ones and I've known hard working ones,I've seen hard working ones give the lazy ones hell for being lazy! Anyone who has loaded a 12 car rack when it's 90 degrees isn't lazy! Anyone who has pulled a set of light loaded pups over Elk mountain in Wyoming in midwinter with a 40 mph crosswind isn't lazy! Working people however well paid(actually properly paid) aren't the ones that bankrupt companies it is poor management and ridiculously high CEO salaries! I haven't heard anything recently about UPS being bankrupt! The last of the teamster fixed pensions only stand out because they are the last! I can remember when all workers at  large companies got fixed pensions! When the 20 year teamster freight haulers and car haulers were fighting the ice and snow on the Pa turnpike the 20 year United steel workers were taking a 20 wk paid vacation(1 week for each year worked) By the way happy thanksgiving and hope you beat that thing,Hat City ! On a sour note...now I have someone to blame for how small the Twinkies are inside the big wrapper😁

 

[david wild]

Pardon me, I really like working and the feeling of getting something done, standing around bragging how I ripped off the co. for another weeks wages for doing nothing does not  appeal to me. and I wonder how my union would help me when working in Africa or Europe ??? Because I'm non union I have gone all over the world and done and seen some unbelievable things. and yes got way better pay than any union job.  My DOD contractor pay scale puts up with the highest paid generals, GE flies me around the world on biz class. we stay at the finest lodging, even if it's a container in the Iraq desert, I get listed as crew on the largest plane in the world when flying special cargo, I have gone out on some of the finest cargo ships, infact thanks to being non union I have had a great life and feel blessed to have had the opportunities I have had.  Union no way, being a brainless fart is not my gig. my father was union so I know the union life, BS someone else. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

David, you were working under prevailing wage law and thus got to freeload on union wages. If you were real union, you'd have a pension to enjoy instead of displaying your jealousy of union workers.

[Underdog]

David, you were working under prevailing wage law and thus got to freeload on union wages. If you were real union, you'd have a pension to enjoy instead of displaying your jealousy of union workers.

Real Union... What are we down to now, 10% of the private work force? Seems like a whole lot of others make things happen every day in this country. We don't have time to be jealous.

I must admit, after reading Yardo's post, I am slightly envious of Bethlehem Steel retirees. Man, they have the life.

[41chevy]

 

[41chevy]

6 hours ago, Underdog said:

Or work for yourself and plan accordingly and be beholden to no one... I'd like to do away with Social Security as well... I can get a better return by putting my money in a savings account.

I ended up at one point after Sandy with 3 of my job sites protected by the big inflatable rats, so good of the union to mark my sites...last job site they didn't put up a rat it was too cold so they sat in a few cars.

[1958 F.W.D.]

3 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

David, you were working under prevailing wage law and thus got to freeload on union wages. If you were real union, you'd have a pension to enjoy instead of displaying your jealousy of union workers.

Yes, once again, I encourage you to come have dinner at my house with some of my elderly neighbors who are retirees of Bethlehem Steel.....Who are "enjoying" their Union pension by being forced to work 40+ hours a week to be able to survive. 

Union is a 5-Letter dirty word in the Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton areas of the Lehigh Valley of eastern Pa. 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by 1958 F.W.D.

[Mcrafty1]

Priceless.

[tjc transport]

union is a dirty word around here too. 32 years in the union to find out when going to retire they pissed away almost all of the annuity fund money. i got $34,000 out of the $342,000 i put into the annuity. and my monthly pension payout is $0 because the pension fund is bankrupt because of improper handling of the funds.

 

[Underdog]

union is a dirty word around here too. 32 years in the union to find out when going to retire they pissed away almost all of the annuity fund money. i got $34,000 out of the $342,000 i put into the annuity. and my monthly pension payout is $0 because the pension fund is bankrupt because of improper handling of the funds.

 

This is my problem with unions. I don't begrudge any individual employee for taking the best deal being offered at the time, but most of it is unsustainable, especially as the markets have changed over the past 40 years, and the union bosses greed and corruption ruins it for everyone. MOST, not all, of the working stiffs are not smart enough to see how they are being taken advantage of.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

If your pension is worthless, it's not your union's fault- It's either a pre-ERISA pension or was underfunded because the company was able to use a loophole to claim it was overfunded and quit paying into it. Because my Teamster pension is well managed, there have been no benefit cuts even after the biggest employer went bankrupt.

[Underdog]

If your pension is worthless, it's not your union's fault- It's either a pre-ERISA pension or was underfunded because the company was able to use a loophole to claim it was overfunded and quit paying into it. Because my Teamster pension is well managed, there have been no benefit cuts even after the biggest employer went bankrupt.

You said it yourself... Your fund is well managed, good for you. Many were not, because the union bosses got greedy or did not change with market conditions. And many employees never saw it coming, because they were misled. You can avoid all this heartache, hatred and blame by being self employed. Nothing is guaranteed nowadays. At least if it goes wrong, I know who to be mad at.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Being self employed means having to pay twice as much social security tax, as well as paying all of your health insurance and workers comp, and you get no unemployment insurance... Doesn't sound like a solution.

[tjc transport]

1 hour ago, Underdog said:

You said it yourself... Your fund is well managed, good for you. Many were not, because the union bosses got greedy or did not change with market conditions. And many employees never saw it coming, because they were misled. You can avoid all this heartache, hatred and blame by being self employed. Nothing is guaranteed nowadays. At least if it goes wrong, I know who to be mad at.

exactly this. the local leaders were the scum of the earth. made all kinds of false statements and hid their greed/graft from everyone until it was too late.

plus about 15 years ago they started giving concessions to the laborers local just like the operating engineers did and ended up giving teamsters jobs away.

operating engineers first let the companies go without an oiler.  they then agreed to let the laborers run the machine for the "little job" instead of bringing in an operator for the whole day.

then the companies went to the teamsters and said we do not need a driver for the whole day, we only need to move one load on site. the operating engineers let us do it, will you? and the teamsters said yes.

come 10 years later and there are no more new teamster jobs. so money going out to money coming in starts to differ. soon there is one dollar going out for every ten cents coming in.

plus with the mismanagement of the funds, illegal transferring of moneys from annuity and pension funds to general funds to pay bribes and political payouts for lobbyists, and extremely inflated union officials pay, there is no more money left in the kitty.

then when asked where the money went, the fund manager says "i don't know, we made poor market choices"

[Underdog]

the government employees/ unions as well were greedy and corrupt, didn't plan on the gravy train coming to an end, all the good jobs going away. Auto makers in Detroit, steel mills in PA, for examples, priced themselves out of competitiveness, and jobs went overseas or south to right-to-work states. City and county governments lost the big tax base, so now can't fund their pension commitment.

I have a friend who is a retired teamster, started with North Penn, then CF until they went under, and he retired at Yellow Freight. He tells me CF was the best job he ever had, Yellow was the worst. CF's biggest mistake was they tried to take care of their employees AND be competitive. Not sustainable in the new marketplace.