An open letter to the Snowflakes

[david wild]

I never saw a devil dog or twinkie from china, who are you BSing, Hostess did not have competition from bakers from from out side the country, they did not make money the last year because their death had all ready started before the union let their strangle hold go, we hauled out of Hostess in MA. the unions killed Hostess, take credit for the damage your union has done and stop white washing the truth.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

You don't know the bakery biz, Twinkies were but a small portion of Hostess' business and the Devil Dogs were a regional product. Hostess had to compete in the U.S. with products from Mexico. On the export side, Hostess faced barriers exporting to Europe and the Middle East. Heck, even Canada was such a hassle that they shipped everything for Canada west of Ontario from the Seattle bakery so they only had to cross the border at one point. The Labor department verified this and decided the Hostess workers were eligible for Trade Adjustment Assistance.

[1958 F.W.D.]

On 11/27/2016 at 0:03 PM, TeamsterGrrrl said:

You don't know the bakery biz, Twinkies were but a small portion of Hostess' business and the Devil Dogs were a regional product. Hostess had to compete in the U.S. with products from Mexico. On the export side, Hostess faced barriers exporting to Europe and the Middle East. Heck, even Canada was such a hassle that they shipped everything for Canada west of Ontario from the Seattle bakery so they only had to cross the border at one point. The Labor department verified this and decided the Hostess workers were eligible for Trade Adjustment Assistance.

Now tell us some more of your communist propaganda bullsh*t about Nabisco in Philadelphia shutting down and moving production to Mexico.............

[hurstscrambler]

Have you ever had a Twinkie???   Would you choose to have another?  That's why hostess went out of business. Ha-ha.  Andy

[hurstscrambler]

11 minutes ago, 1958 F.W.D. said:

Now tell us some more of your communist propaganda bullshit about Nabisco in Philadelphia shutting down and moving production to Mexico.............

Good thing the wall is going up soon, keep the Mexican Oreos out!  Andy

[Mcrafty1]

9 hours ago, eddeere said:

As a supervisor in a company with a union the union was rarely needed. Any problem was usually worked out on the spot. Most problems were mostly gripes once the employee got it off their chest work went on. The union steward was seldom involved. THEN the older employees started retiring and a new group of younger employees started taking their place. That is when things started to change for the worst. Jobs were too hot, hard, unsafe, or not my job for this group. In the old days everyone worked together. For the new group they seemed to work against each other.  Finally I was able to retire. 

Yeah, the entitlement generation took over.....they almost succeeded in taking over the country, then Trump came along.......suddenly their ilk is feeling the squeeze for a change.

[Mcrafty1]

5 hours ago, hurstscrambler said:

Have you ever had a Twinkie???   Would you choose to have another?  That's why hostess went out of business. Ha-ha.  Andy

I love Hostess Twinkies....even a little more now than before.

[Mcrafty1]

On 11/27/2016 at 9:12 AM, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Hostess' last contribution to my pension was in 1998, they were profitable then. Hostess didn't pay into any pensions for their last year of operation, and still couldn't make money. Hostess went bankrupt partly due to foreign competition and partly due to poor management. Hostess unionized competitors like Bimbo, US Bakeries, Lakeland, etc. paid the same pension contributions and are still in business.

If it helps you sleep nights good for you..... the truth of the matter is that the death blow on Hostess was before the last year, The union already had Hostess bled nearly dry (and in unmanageable debt by demanding more for the union so there was nothing left to pay the material suppliers) by the time they released their grip, kinda like letting Hostess put a band-aid on a severed artery.......but don't let that keep you awake nights your getting yours. Unions are going to get theirs too, hopefully sooner rather than later.

[other dog]

On 11/27/2016 at 8:58 AM, Keith Pommerening said:

UPS seems to be the golden standard when it comes to union pensions.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't UPS pay something in the neighborhood of 3 billion dollars to the Teamsters so they could avoid paying for other company union obligations.  Something to do with "Last man standing" making-up bankrupt companies obligations for union pensions.  Seems only ones foolish enough to believe in union, any more, are government entities.  Looks like only purpose of unions anymore is to fund the also dying democrat party.

 

Overnite was a non-union company, the largest non-union co. I believe,  and just about everybody that worked there talks about what a great company it was to work for before UPS took them over. They have an Overnite facebook page for former workers, have reunions, etc. but I haven't seen or heard any of them say anything about it being great after UPS.

[Underdog]

Overnite was a non-union company, the largest non-union co. I believe,  and just about everybody that worked there talks about what a great company it was  to work for before UPS took them over. They have an Overnite facebook page for former workers, have reunions, etc. but I haven't seen or heard any of them say anything about it being great after UPS.

The Teamsters tried unsuccessfully to organize Overnite with a 3-year strike 1999-2002, which the company and its employees largely ignored. Something like 1% of Overnite's employees were unionized at the time. Seems the employees were happy with the non-union arrangement. And the Teamsters lost a lot of bargaining clout after this resounding failure.

[Freightrain]

I typically don't like political arguments, but I'll add my .02.

My sister was HR over the FORD Romeo, Michigan engine plant.  Let me tell you some stories about "UNION" workers.   I saw the large group of "workers" that are banished to sit in the cafeteria all day and watch tv.  Why?  Well, all they do is screw up at any work station and since the UNION won't allow them to be fired(because of all the political correct BS), they must keep them employed.   It's cheaper to just pay them to sit and watch TV then go through the litigation to get rid of them.  With pay and benefits they are making $50/hr?  More?  Way too much to sit and watch TV all day.  Why do cars cost $50K?  Ya, figure it out.   At what point does a line worker that bolts a seat down or push a broom need to make $50/hour? 

I used to pickup at Fisher Guide(GM) plant in Indiana back in late 80's.  Walk into the shipping area to find 20+ guys reading papers and drinking coffee.  I needed loaded, they argue who is "next" to work.   One guy grabs a tow motor and loads me.   Ya, tell me again why cars are $50K?  Heaven hell if someone drops something on the floor you can't just pick it up.  You have to get a "maintenance guy" to do it.  Why?  Cause that is "his job" and if you pick up that paper you are taking "his work" away from him.  Oh Christ, really?

My work is NON union.  If we had been, we would have never survived the times.  If the boss asks us to work over, we do it.  We arranged work schedules to meet deadlines and ship dates.   You couldn't say "well it is time for union break" and sit down for 1/2 hour.  You work til the job is done, then relax.  I do 5 people jobs(or more), I do whatever is needed to make the company successful.  Why?  Cause that is my nature.  I'm not a burden, I'm what makes our company great.

Unions had their times.  Now it is bleeding companies dry.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Freightrain

[TeamsterGrrrl]

9 hours ago, 1958 F.W.D. said:

Now tell us some more of your communist propaganda bullshit about Nabisco in Philadelphia shutting down and moving production to Mexico.............

That plant is in Chicago, not Philly... You guys need to get your facts straight before you spout off.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

And as much as you guys hate unions, why do you waste your time on a website dedicated to union made in America Mack trucks?

[TeamsterGrrrl]

11 hours ago, david wild said:

I never saw a devil dog or twinkie from china, who are you BSing, Hostess did not have competition from bakers from from out side the country, they did not make money the last year because their death had all ready started before the union let their strangle hold go, we hauled out of Hostess in MA. the unions killed Hostess, take credit for the damage your union has done and stop white washing the truth.

Closing Natick and similar plants helped sink Hostess- Management thought they could build a new non union bakery in Maine and turn a profit selling the Natick site which was across the street from a shopping mall. The deal was a disaster- They ended up paying union wages in Maine, transportation costs went through the roof, and the Natick site took years to sell. They made the same mistake closing East Brunswick and Pomona bakeries and didn't get much $$$ for those sites either.

[HeavyGunner]

1 hour ago, Freightrain said:

I typically don't like political arguments, but I'll add my .02.

My sister was HR over the FORD Romeo, Michigan engine plant.  Let me tell you some stories about "UNION" workers.   I saw the large group of "workers" that are banished to sit in the cafeteria all day and watch tv.  Why?  Well, all they do is screw up at any work station and since the UNION won't allow them to be fired(because of all the political correct BS), they must keep them employed.   It's cheaper to just pay them to sit and watch TV then go through the litigation to get rid of them.  With pay and benefits they are making $50/hr?  More?  Way too much to sit and watch TV all day.  Why do cars cost $50K?  Ya, figure it out.   At what point does a line worker that bolts a seat down or push a broom need to make $50/hour? 

I used to pickup at Fisher Guide(GM) plant in Indiana back in late 80's.  Walk into the shipping area to find 20+ guys reading papers and drinking coffee.  I needed loaded, they argue who is "next" to work.   One guy grabs a tow motor and loads me.   Ya, tell me again why cars are $50K?  Heaven hell if someone drops something on the floor you can't just pick it up.  You have to get a "maintenance guy" to do it.  Why?  Cause that is "his job" and if you pick up that paper you are taking "his work" away from him.  Oh Christ, really?

My work is NON union.  If we had been, we would have never survived the times.  If the boss asks us to work over, we do it.  We arranged work schedules to meet deadlines and ship dates.   You couldn't say "well it is time for union break" and sit down for 1/2 hour.  You work til the job is done, then relax.  I do 5 people jobs(or more), I do whatever is needed to make the company successful.  Why?  Cause that is my nature.  I'm not a burden, I'm what makes our company great.

Unions had their times.  Now it is bleeding companies dry.

Sounds as bad as it is here when companies have to follow Tero laws on the Rez. You have to hire so many Indians per capita to get anything done on the Rez including state highways. The trouble is getting any of them to show up for more than a day much less after they get their first paycheck. So it's easier to pay them to sit and not screw anything up and even then they rarely show up. This is from my personal experience some family and friends experience as well.  Again teamster unions have gotten so bloated (just like the government) that they are unsustainable. The county where I live is Union for 6 or maybe 8 employees and its sustainable but the wages are ok but not way over paid like most unions ( $14/hr for a blade operator and insurance isn't real great either) so no it's not busting the bank with over the moon wages and bennies so what's the point? The guys would be far better off without paying union dues on those wages. 

[HeavyGunner]

57 minutes ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

And as much as you guys hate unions, why do you waste your time on a website dedicated to union made in America Mack trucks?

And where is Mack now? OH right it wasn't sustainable and been sold a couple of times to be picked over. 

[Underdog]

Teamster Grrrl has been drinking the Kool aid too long... Thinks the union did him a favor. Early retirement is the same as saying " Go sit over there, read the paper, watch TV, whatever. Just don't touch anything, don't hurt your back!" It's cheaper to retire the old, expensive labor and hire 2 more productive youngsters in your place.

[1958 F.W.D.]

On 11/27/2016 at 9:58 PM, TeamsterGrrrl said:

That plant is in Chicago, not Philly... You guys need to get your facts straight before you spout off.

Really? Seriously?  Nevermind the fact that I am originally from Philly and know the local news...................Riddle me this, Batman........ just WHY IS THAT VACANT SEVEN STORY BUILDING AT THE INTERSECTION OF ROSEVELT BOULEVARD AND WOODHAVEN ROAD in the Northeast Section of the City?? 

HINT: Google "Nabisco Philadelphia."

Then come back here and spin more of your communist BS. 

[other dog]

3 hours ago, Freightrain said:

I typically don't like political arguments, but I'll add my .02.

My sister was HR over the FORD Romeo, Michigan engine plant.  Let me tell you some stories about "UNION" workers.   I saw the large group of "workers" that are banished to sit in the cafeteria all day and watch tv.  Why?  Well, all they do is screw up at any work station and since the UNION won't allow them to be fired(because of all the political correct BS), they must keep them employed.   It's cheaper to just pay them to sit and watch TV then go through the litigation to get rid of them.  With pay and benefits they are making $50/hr?  More?  Way too much to sit and watch TV all day.  Why do cars cost $50K?  Ya, figure it out.   At what point does a line worker that bolts a seat down or push a broom need to make $50/hour? 

I used to pickup at Fisher Guide(GM) plant in Indiana back in late 80's.  Walk into the shipping area to find 20+ guys reading papers and drinking coffee.  I needed loaded, they argue who is "next" to work.   One guy grabs a tow motor and loads me.   Ya, tell me again why cars are $50K?  Heaven hell if someone drops something on the floor you can't just pick it up.  You have to get a "maintenance guy" to do it.  Why?  Cause that is "his job" and if you pick up that paper you are taking "his work" away from him.  Oh Christ, really?

My work is NON union.  If we had been, we would have never survived the times.  If the boss asks us to work over, we do it.  We arranged work schedules to meet deadlines and ship dates.   You couldn't say "well it is time for union break" and sit down for 1/2 hour.  You work til the job is done, then relax.  I do 5 people jobs(or more), I do whatever is needed to make the company successful.  Why?  Cause that is my nature.  I'm not a burden, I'm what makes our company great.

Unions had their times.  Now it is bleeding companies dry.

I'm out of likes again, but I agree 100%!

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Guy who replaced me at Hostess put my assigned truck in a lake, he's lucky to have survived. Looks like my job at the Postal Service was never filled, when I retired we had a bit over 100 drivers in our unit, last I checked they were down in the 60s. And the union definitely did me a favor... If it wasn't for my union pension I'd still be working like you folks. The overtime pay our union got (truck drivers are exempt from FLSA) went straight into my IRAs, haven't even touched them yet.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

On 11/27/2016 at 11:51 PM, 1958 F.W.D. said:

Really? Seriously?  Nevermind the fact that I am originally from Philly and know the local news...................Riddle me this, Batman........ just WHAT THE F*CK IS THAT VACANT SEVEN STORY BUILDING AT THE INTERSECTION OF ROSEVELT BOULEVARD AND WOODHAVEN ROAD in the Northeast Section of the City?? 

HINT: Google "Nabisco Philadelphia."

Then come back here and spin more of your communist bullshit. 

That's a smaller plant that shut down a while ago, the big one that's drawn all the attention in Chicago. As far as my being a "communist", you're dating yourself... 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

1 hour ago, HeavyGunner said:

Sounds as bad as it is here when companies have to follow Tero laws on the Rez. You have to hire so many Indians per capita to get anything done on the Rez including state highways. The trouble is getting any of them to show up for more than a day much less after they get their first paycheck. So it's easier to pay them to sit and not screw anything up and even then they rarely show up. This is from my personal experience some family and friends experience as well.  Again teamster unions have gotten so bloated (just like the government) that they are unsustainable. The county where I live is Union for 6 or maybe 8 employees and its sustainable but the wages are ok but not way over paid like most unions ( $14/hr for a blade operator and insurance isn't real great either) so no it's not busting the bank with over the moon wages and bennies so what's the point? The guys would be far better off without paying union dues on those wages. 

You're racism is showing. And being that we're their guests, we ought treat them with respect.

[1958 F.W.D.]

4 minutes ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

That's a smaller plant that shut down a while ago, the big one that's drawn all the attention in Chicago. As far as my being a "communist", you're dating yourself... 

Oh, I'm sorry.....I didn't know that May 1, 2015 qualifies as "A while ago." 

Does it matter that it's a smaller plant? Union Jobs were lost to Mexico (GASP!) for cheaper labor. I just turned 43 earlier this month. I call em like I see em. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by 1958 F.W.D.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

48 minutes ago, HeavyGunner said:

And where is Mack now? OH right it wasn't sustainable and been sold a couple of times to be picked over. 

You guys think too small and narrow. The american truck market is too small and oddball to support 4 manufacturers, and the export market for conventionals is even smaller... That's why Signal sold Mack and Renault got out of the big truck biz. None the less, would be interesting to start a separate thread to develop a viable business plan for Mack if Volvo spun it off...

[TeamsterGrrrl]

3 minutes ago, 1958 F.W.D. said:

Oh, I'm sorry.....I didn't know that May 1, 2015 qualifies as "A while ago." 

Does it matter that it's a smaller plant? Union Jobs were lost to Mexico (GASP!) for cheaper labor. I just turned 43 earlier this month. I call em like I see em. 

Nabisco has closed a ton of plants, used to have one in Minneapolis too. That's nothing compared to the list of plants Hostess closed, the major companies merged into Hostess (Continental and Interstate) had well over 100 bakeries three decades ago. When they shut down their were only 35 still baking, and only about  8 have reopened under new ownership.