Trump and healthcare

[TeamsterGrrrl]

If it wasn't for the Justice Department Antitrust Division we'd have only one insurance company and maybe only one hospital chain too.

[Underdog]

Seems to me Rowdy and Teamster finally agree on something. Although they might not know it yet.

 

 

[RowdyRebel]

The fact that options are somewhat limited shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The reason WHY options are limited is where the disagreement is. Teamster seems to think the anti-trust division of government is the only reason there are more than one health insurance company and more than one health care provider. In reality, though, without the few large corporate conglomerates lobbying the government for rules and regulations which benefit them by making it difficult to make it as a smaller, independent operator in the industry (high start-up cost, high compliance costs, countless hoops to jump through that the large corporations have lawyers on staff to navigate but the little guy doesn't, etc...). When it is prohibitively expensive to attempt to "build a better mouse trap", nobody will attempt it...which means the big players who are already there won't have to compete with the upstarts who simply don't have the capital to compete despite having a MUCH lower overhead.

Cut the ridiculous regulatory maze and turn loose the free market. Make it POSSIBLE for somebody to build a better mouse trap without pricing that better mousetrap out of the arena before it ever gets built due to the compliance costs of burdensome regulations. More government interference DEMANDING competition won't solve anything, because people with ideas have to make the decision for themselves as to whether or not it is economically feasible to do so. If it isn't economically feasible for an individual to enter the market place and compete, the only players will be large corporations and their spin-off corporations when the feds determine the original corporation has gobbled up too much of the market share.

More government involvement is NEVER the right choice.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Rowdy, this may come as a surprise to you, but your republican party is the party of big business and they love monopolies. I'm watching our Minnesota legislature on public TV this morning, and the republicans are trying to push through a bill that will give at most a handful of insurance companies nearly a billion dollars in hopes they'd still sell insurance in Minnesota! What happened to all this republican talk of deregulation, free markets, and an end to (corporate) welfare?

[Dirtymilkman]

It's a proven fact. The less government involvement, the more efficient a company can be ran. Even with strict regulations. It's also true, the smaller the form of government, the more efficient they are. For example, your local townships. 

[RowdyRebel]

The Republican party is NOT "my" party. They only get my vote because the Democrats are polar opposite of where I stand on nearly every issue, while the GOP has a few things upon which I can agree with them. Lesser of 2 evils. If there were a viable candidate who was a Constitutionalist (as written, NOT as "interpreted" by activist judges), he'd get my vote. I'd even take a Libertarian so long as they defended LIFE along with Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness...unfortunately, though, many Libertarians do not. So we have what we have, where one party that is wrong 99% of the time is running against a party that gets it right 65% of the time.  

[TeamsterGrrrl]

1 hour ago, Dirtymilkman said:

It's a proven fact. The less government involvement, the more efficient a company can be ran. Even with strict regulations. It's also true, the smaller the form of government, the more efficient they are. For example, your local townships. 

You oughta see the Township that surrounds my city... Town hall ain't fit for human habitation, so they've had to share our city hall for meetings. Can't make up their mind if they want to maintain the town roads themselves or contract it out, so first they spend $$$ to fix their plow truck, then they change their minds and decide to contract out to the town drunk with a tired grader, then they change their minds again. They've got at least a hundred million dollar tax base, but they're too cheap to keep up their potholed roads. They get away with this because the cities and counties keep rescuing them- The Township residents use our city park and the county maintains the main roads for them, despite the fact they get state aid for stuff like that. Sorry, but the townships are often the "deadbeat" level of government.

[RowdyRebel]

Your township can be a deadbeat government because your county and state governments are enablers. Until such time as they are allowed to fail, AND those responsible for the failure are held accountable (incarceration, financial reimbursements to the Township, etc...), then the trend will continue. Why? Because there are no repercussions for irresponsible behavior by those in government. Just like a drug addict won't stop abusing drugs until they hit rock bottom, a wasteful government won't stop being wasteful. Enablers only dig the hole deeper so the "rock bottom" is farther away and less likely to be reached.

Mismanagement of the people's money ought to be a serious criminal infraction. Instead, those elected to office pass laws immunizing themselves from all but the most egregious violations.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Rowdy, you're trying to apply failed neo-con theories to this township. No crimes have been committed, and the real victims are the tax payers who refuse to demand better basic services instead of almost no taxes. Your chemically dependency treatment based theory doesn't work, either- All too many addicts and drunks die while help is withheld in hopes they'll reform their ways. One of our counties in Minnesota did a study and found that a sample of homeless alcoholics was costing them around $100,000 a year each to jail them, treat them in emergency rooms, etc.. They found it was cheaper to spend less than $10,000 a year to give them housing instead of waiting for them to accept treatment and quit using.

[RowdyRebel]

The only reason "no crimes have been committed" is because those in elected office have chosen not to pass laws criminalizing wasteful spending by the government. Instead, they have passed laws prohibiting them from being held liable for any actions they take while in office.

Like I said, it ought to be a crime to mismanage the people's money. If a private corporation managed funds the same way the government does, the officers of that company would be in prison. Hell, even programs such as Social Security are nothing more than a ponzi scheme...but that's considered sacred and untouchable despite the fact that it is unsustainable. If somebody in the private sector was caught operating a program identical to social security in every way, they'd be locked up for a long time. Why? Because those IN government aren't going to pass laws criminalizing their own mismanagement of funds forcibly taken through taxation...but they have no problem criminalizing somebody else's mismanagement of funds which were freely provided to them by other individuals.

Even "insider trading" is illegal for everyone EXCEPT members of Congress. Buy stock in a corporation the day before you introduce a bill that will make stock prices go through the roof? NO BIG DEAL! Sell your stock in a company the day before legislation hits the floor that'll tank the price? NOTHING TO SEE HERE! If you aren't a member of Congress, though, and you buy or sell based upon inside information others may not be privy to, and you're going to prison.

Just because it isn't a "crime" to do something doesn't make it OK...especially if it WOULD be a crime if not for your position in the government.

[Dirtymilkman]

Bernie Madoff ran basically the same system as social security. If everyone wanted their money that was invested in social security there would be no way to pay it all back. As Rowdy said, he's now sitting in jail. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Rowdy, stupidity is not a crime, nor should it be.

Dirtymilkman, Social Security is an insurance program, and unlike Madoff never claimed to be a brokerage or promised a return on investment.

[RowdyRebel]

Never said stupidity should be a crime...only the mismanagement of the people's money. That isn't stupid, but rather careless indifference...often intentionally...because there are no penalties for irresponsibility.  If voted out of office, they get a pension (which they authorized for themselves) and go to work as a lobbyist. If re-elected, they keep their seat and all of the perks that go with it. There are no consequences for irresponsible behavior because the people who need to be held accountable are the ones making the rules.

And social security is NOT "insurance". It is a ponzi scheme plain and simple.

https://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

What is a Ponzi scheme?

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors.

From its inception, social security has paid out benefits to recipients (existing "investors") with money received from workers (new "investors"). The original recipients of Social Security funds never paid into the system.

Why do Ponzi schemes collapse?

With little or no legitimate earnings, Ponzi schemes require a consistent flow of money from new investors to continue. Ponzi schemes tend to collapse when it becomes difficult to recruit new investors or when a large number of investors ask to cash out.

Social Security is in trouble because the flow of money from "new investors" is dwindling as families have fewer kids one generation to the next to grow up to eventually join the work force. Then, there's the whole youth unemployment problem caused in part by a minimum wage that exceeds the worth of an uneducated, unskilled, inexperienced worked, making it difficult for the few kids people are having to actually join the work force. Old folks are retiring early (cashing out, so to speak) and living longer, further exacerbating the problem. 

...and I can't help but laugh at your last statement about Social Security having never promised a return on investment! Try telling that to the millions of seniors who go into panic mode anytime anyone even remotely suggests reforms are needed and the Democrats start in with the "Republicans want to cut Social Security" song and dance. Eventually, it WILL collapse, and there won't be a damn thing anyone can do about it because nobody had the stones to fix the problems with sustainable solutions.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Crime requires intent, and the township board doesn't intend to steal from or defraud anyone, they're just dumb at times. As for Social Security being a Ponzi Scheme, if so they're not doing very well at it- For eight decades Social Security has been paying out benefits exactly like they promised they would!

[Dirtymilkman]

So the government will just take care of all us! 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Dirtymilkman

[mowerman]

Same old balony steal tax payers money. . Throw it away get a big rewards for doing so .. rewarded again for bad behavior reminds me of the Wonder Bread caper the CEOs were rewarding themselves with bonuses well the company wasn't bankruptcy what the hell is that all about like wow man what a country.lol....bob
 

[kscarbel2]

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[mowerman]

Nut up and get a job with benefits........Go blow your nose while your at it.....As an old fat white guy paying everyone's bills, I don't have any soft spot. Put on your big boys pants and take care of business🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸.bob

[Underdog]

7 hours ago, mowerman said:

Nut up and get a job with benefits........Go blow your nose while your at it.....As an old fat white guy paying everyones bills don't have any soft spot. Put on your big boys pants and take care of business🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸.bob
 

I guess I'm just old school... Don't go to the doctor every time I got a runny nose... Just suck it up and get back to work. Probably a lot of times over the years I could lay down and claim disability, just not in my nature. Got knocked down for a few weeks by an exploding tire a couple years ago, and my back has been bad since I was 18, just got things to do and no time to go to the doctor. I scratch my head, some of the people I see on permanent disability are in better shape than me lol. The new American dream.

[mowerman]

God love ya....Ya that's me ....Not quite getting this entire caper....I don't know anyone that doesn't have medical insurance just about every outfit offers if if they don't find a job that does....Not rocket science and it's certainly not my problem as you mentioned I go in to work half dead ... Myself done it for years...[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]...bob

And besides that, ever since Obamacare, we have to pay more for our insurance and we get less, so I don't know who this actually benefited but it certainly wasn't me.....bob

[Underdog]

When I was self-employed 8 years ago I bought my own Blue Cross policy for about $3300 a year for me and my child. Today I have a policy through my employer, pay $7000 a year (not including what my employer pays) plus my deductible is $4000. How is this better for me? Thanks, Obama!

[TeamsterGrrrl]

I've been paying about $100 a month for the same plan for 20+ years now, coverage improved a bit under the ACA.

[mowerman]

Ya mines 116 a week and I hadda switch eye doctor can't find a good one now Cigna dumped us now we got blue Cross ain't worth a sh*t...bob
 

[Dirtymilkman]

Well in Minnesota Blue Cross bailed out of the state. They'll do big groups but not individual. Now we have a $20,000 deductible.  Thanks Obama! I guess I should get a government job and let the rest of you pay the bill. 

[mowerman]

Sure what the hell ....Seems to be the plan sit home drink beer do dope get loop earnings free cell phone let's all sign up.....I'll give up my all night road driving spot to some loser that's been doing that for years.ahahahaha....bob