Trump and healthcare

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Have you ever considered that the insurance companies are ripping you off?

Take a look at the real costs for a start- SSA says that the real cost of Medicare for a 65 year old is around $400 a month, and would be cheaper for younger folks. The Federal Employee Health Benefit Plan is paying about $400 a month for insurance that meets ACA minimum standards and FEHB's higher standards, and the median age of a Fed is 47. For that price they've got about a half dozen insurance companies bidding for our business in most states, and usually at least another half dozen "premium" plans offered for a higher price.

If you're paying more than that, you're insurance company is taking advantage of your lack of bargaining power and ripping you off!

[41chevy]

Going back to World War II, when unions successfully sold the idea that employers should pay for health insurance to circumvent wage-price controls in effect during the war, which limited their ability to bargain for higher wages, most Americans started receiving insurance through their employers. They also got this benefit tax-free. This third-party payment disrupted the feedback loop that is necessary for markets to operate efficiently. We haven't had a free market system in health care ever since -- and Obamacare made it much worse. Now it has mushroomed with other entities in the feed chain with their hands in the consumers pockets..     Paul

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Sorry, but when you're a bargaining unit of one or just a family, your "free market" doesn't work for you. Haven't you noticed that big companies and the government can buy most anything for less?

[RowdyRebel]

On March 10, 2017 at 0:49 PM, mowerman said:

God love ya....Ya that's me ....Not quite getting this entire caper....I don't know anyone that doesn't have medical insurance just about every outfit offers if if they don't find a job that does....Not rocket science and it's certainly not my problem as you mentioned I go in to work half dead ... Myself done it for years......bob

And besides that, ever since Obamacare, we have to pay more for our insurance and we get less, so I don't know who this actually benefited but it certainly wasn't me.....bob

I don't have health insurance. I HAD great insurance that fit my needs...$65/month premium, $1750 deductible, 80% covered to $4750 max out-of-pocket then 100% covered, and $5M lifetime cap.  It was grandfathered in under Obamacare...but new fees to subsidize those who "couldn't afford" their own insurance pushed the cost of my policy to the point where it was no longer a good value. Plus, I got married and could not add my wife and maintain my grandfathered status. So, I dropped it. We looked into a policy this past "open enrollment", but at $1000/month for a policy that wasn't any good out of state...which is a problem because we live near the state line and most of our time is spent out of state. That also came with a $6K deductible, which more than doubled again to $13K if you weren't "in network"...which again, with where we live was more likely than not.  We'd be paying the first $13K in expenses IN ADDITION TO the $12K in annual premiums...and then still have to cover 80% of the cost beyond that because it's out of network. In other words, we're better off WITHOUT the crap policies available under Obamacare, and keeping that $12K in our pockets.

[HeavyGunner]

3 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Sorry, but when you're a bargaining unit of one or just a family, your "free market" doesn't work for you. Haven't you noticed that big companies and the government can buy most anything for less?

No. From what I've seen the government is the absolute best at wasting money and far overpaying for things. I used to sell the bureau of reclamation chemicals for containing noxious weeds until one year they went with a big box store brand company and I can tell you with certainty they paid far more because guys at the BOR told me what they paid and when I chuckled and thought I had this sale in the bag because I could beat that price bad they told me they were being told from the top where to buy things no matter the price. So I think the government is piss poor at negotiating since it's our money they're spending and there are no consequences to for being bone heads. 

Edited March 12, 2017 by HeavyGunner
Damn autocorrect

[Underdog]

No. From what I've seen the government is the absolute best at wasting money and far overpaying for things. I used to sell the bureau of reclamation chemicals for containing noxious weeds until one year they went with a big box store brand company and I can tell you with certainty they paid far more because guys at the BOR told me what they paid and when I chuckled and thought I had this sale in the bag because I could beat that price bad they told me they were being told from the top where to buy things no matter the price. So I think the government is piss poor at negotiating since it's our money they're spending and there are no consequences to for being bone heads. 

Goes back to the cost of health care a few pages back... If you're not the one footing the bill, who cares what it costs?

[41chevy]

6 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Sorry, but when you're a bargaining unit of one or just a family, your "free market" doesn't work for you. Haven't you noticed that big companies and the government can buy most anything for less?

The only bargaining chip involved was the unions could not legally strike for more money, so they staged slow downs. FDR and the War Production Board followed  IBT President Daniel J Tobin the official White House liaison to organized labor and gave them Health Care because of the government wage freeze. Had nothing to do with free market when that concession was made.because the slow downs affect the war effort.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by 41chevy

[mowerman]

Don't know man.....All I see here with obambi plan is same old balony....... Middle class paying bills for rich and poor as usual......And my bottom line is..... Simple..... You don't work...You don't eat....And no that doesn't include disabled veteran..... Everyone else get out there and help out[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]...bob
 

[41chevy]

8 hours ago, mowerman said:

Don't know man.....All I see here with obambi plan is same old balony....... Middle class paying bills for rich and poor as usual......And my bottom line is..... Simple..... You don't work...You don't eat....And no that doesn't include disabled veteran..... Everyone else get out there and help out...bob
 

I don't understand her bargaining reference do you? With most states having a single provider covering them or like Tennessee having sections with no provider. Mandated by law you have to buy in, no choice on coverage,so where is the free market that she mentioned? Or is there only a free market for God's Obama's Chosen. . .  the Government workers and the Unions.

Now I do get my health care for 100% "free" at Murder inc / V.A. but that "free" came at a pretty steep cost to me IMO.

 

[Dirtymilkman]

10 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Have you ever considered that the insurance companies are ripping you off?

Take a look at the real costs for a start- SSA says that the real cost of Medicare for a 65 year old is around $400 a month, and would be cheaper for younger folks. The Federal Employee Health Benefit Plan is paying about $400 a month for insurance that meets ACA minimum standards and FEHB's higher standards, and the median age of a Fed is 47. For that price they've got about a half dozen insurance companies bidding for our business in most states, and usually at least another half dozen "premium" plans offered for a higher price.

If you're paying more than that, you're insurance company is taking advantage of your lack of bargaining power and ripping you off!

Hmmmmm...........And who came up with this excellent plan we have now?  Hmmmmm......Why are we getting ripped off?  Hmmmmm

[mowerman]

Yeah and let's not forget fellas that was all from a Muslim terrorist that's right haha the all mighty Communist pig obambi. ...bob
 

[mowerman]

There's another perfect example rewarded for bad behavior run the country into the toilet and retired with four hundred thousand a year wow where do we sign up for that [emoji107][emoji107][emoji107]...bob
 

[Underdog]

6 hours ago, mowerman said:

There's another perfect example rewarded for bad behavior run the country into the toilet and retired with four hundred thousand a year wow where do we sign up for that [emoji107][emoji107][emoji107]...bob

 

You haven't seen the last of Obummer... He won't go away quietly.

[kscarbel2]

12 hours ago, HeavyGunner said:

No. From what I've seen the government is the absolute best at wasting money and far overpaying for things. I used to sell the bureau of reclamation chemicals for containing noxious weeds until one year they went with a big box store brand company and I can tell you with certainty they paid far more because guys at the BOR told me what they paid and when I chuckled and thought I had this sale in the bag because I could beat that price bad they told me they were being told from the top where to buy things no matter the price. So I think the government is piss poor at negotiating since it's our money they're spending and there are no consequences to for being bone heads. 

You're right. But the government is not wasting money as far as the aristocracy is concerned. They're taking taxpayer money and redistributing it.

Why does it take 5 years to upgrade a highway when it should only take one? Because there's a chain of people who profit from it.

It's all an intentional waste of money.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

The legendary "free markets" are pretty much just that, a legend that seldom occurs in nature or the economy. The closest we see to free markets is when a new technology like the automobile or personal computer arrives... A century ago there were hundreds of auto manufacturers, and remember when dozens of companies made personal computers? But after a few years the biggest companies hog the market, and today about a half dozen companies have most of the auto market and the personal computer market is pretty much controlled by Acer, HP, Lenovo, and Apple. Same in the classic monopoly, telecom, where even after the government broke up AT&T, "Ma Bell" has regrouped and just two companies control most of the market and with another two they control almost all of it. And who controls most of the health insurance market? The "Blues" and United have pretty much run off any competitors! 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

And while I understand how you republicans enjoy blaming America's only black president for everything possible, what you call "Obamacare", the Affordable Care Act, was created by the republicans as their alternative to the Clinton health care plan. Sorry, but those of you bigots that ignore history don't get to rewrite it.

[mowerman]

That's what bleeding liberal media hands you people,,,,and you all seem to buy it hahahaha......bob
 

[41chevy]

And SOP for ALL liberals. . . Let the name calling and racial accusations begin!  " Sorry, but those of you bigots that ignore history don't get to rewrite it"  Seems you are the bigoted one,who since there was not mention of race, only the ACA does not work well

I never knew that Pelosi and Harry Reid whom pushed the ACA through were Republicans, interesting fact in the alternate universe.   " what you call "Obamacare", the Affordable Care Act, was created by the republicans"

[Dirtymilkman]

Wait a minute....... .. Obama was black?

I didn't know that being black made you write a shitty healthcare bill? 

[mowerman]

Plus how often do you hear me trump blaming obambi for everything ahahaha....bob

[kscarbel2]

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[kscarbel2]

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[kscarbel2]

Republicans scramble to defend healthcare reform despite party divide

The Guardian  /  March 12, 2017

The Trump administration claimed on Sunday that no Americans would lose money under the controversial Republican plan to overhaul healthcare, an extraordinary promise that experts have so far widely contradicted.

Tom Price, Trump’s health and human services secretary, told NBC’s Meet The Press that “nobody will be worse off financially” under the party’s Affordable Care Act replacement proposal, which has come under withering bipartisan criticism.

Analysts have concluded that the Republican plan, the American Health Care Act, would in fact drastically cut tax credits for many people who buy health insurance on the open market; allow insurance companies to charge older people more; and sharply cut Medicaid, the government program that provides free or low-cost healthcare to the poorest Americans.

Insurance industry figures have also warned that, by scrapping the government mandate that forces Americans to buy health insurance, the plan will push more younger and healthier people away from buying coverage, which would sharply increase prices for those who do.

At the same time, tax cuts within the plan would save people earning $1m a year or more about $157 billion over the next ten years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a non-partisan congressional panel.

Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, the former Democratic presidential candidate, said on Sunday that the Republican bill was an “absolute disaster” and “a disgrace” that had been put forward with a “cowardly” lack of transparency.

“What this has everything to do with is a massive shift of wealth from working people and middle income people to the very richest people in this country,” Sanders said on CBS’s Face The Nation.

The Congressional Budget Office, a non-partisan research office, is expected to say early next week in its “scoring” of the plan that the overhaul would also result in millions of people losing health insurance coverage.

Paul Ryan, the House speaker, claimed on Sunday that while “on paper” the Republican plan indeed appeared to provide coverage to fewer Americans than the existing Affordable Care Act (also known as Obamacare), ultimately the Republican plan would encourage more coverage by “lowering the cost”.

“But we’re not going to make an American do what they don’t want to do,” Ryan told CBS. “You get it if you want it. That’s freedom.”

The plan also continued to come under heavy fire from within the Republican party. Rightwing members of the House of Representatives complain that it does not go far enough in dismantling Obama’s system, while members of the Senate warn that it is too radical to pass the upper chamber.

Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas, who has become one of the party’s most outspoken critics of the bill, said it “would have adverse consequences for millions of Americans” and had no chance of being passed by the Senate in its current form. Although far to the right of many of his Senate peers, Cotton said the plan could well be toxic for Republicans in the 2018 midterm elections.

“I’m afraid that if they vote for this bill, they’re going to put the House majority at risk next year,” Cotton said of his colleagues who control the lower chamber on ABC’s This Week.

Representative Mark Meadows of North Carolina, the chairman of the hardline conservative Freedom Caucus, told CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday that he and his colleagues were “not even close at this point” to supporting the Republican plan, which he said required significant alterations.

Republican governors, too, have moved against the plan. Ohio governor John Kasich, a former presidential candidate, flatly rejected Vice-President Mike Pence’s claim that the bill would give his state resources to “literally offer our most vulnerable citizens even better coverage”.

Appearing on NBC’s Meet the Press, Kasich was asked: “Is he right?”

“No, he’s not right,” Kasich answered, citing his state’s 700,000-person Medicaid expansion, which would be rocked by changes to coverage for mental health, drug addiction and chronic illness. “The bill needs a fix. The current system doesn’t work,” he said. “But you don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.”

A report by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a healthcare nonprofit, concluded last week: “Generally, people who are older, lower-income, or live in high-premium areas (like Alaska and Arizona) receive larger tax credits under the ACA than they would under the American Health Care Act replacement.”

The Kaiser analysis estimated that a 60-year-old in a rural, Trump-voting West Virginia county, earning $30,000 a year, would face an $8,000 reduction in tax credits under the Republican plan. When reminded of this finding on Sunday, Price said this failed to take into account that the person in question should have more choice under the Republican plan’s marketization.

“Who knows what that 60-year-old wants? I know that the federal government doesn’t know what that 60-year-old wants,” said Price.

[So Tom Price is saying that the federal government is actually clueless about what the American people want. How then can they be creating health care legislation?]

[RowdyRebel]

They need to simply repeal Obamacare. Eliminate all federal mandates for specific coverages, and allow folks to buy across state lines...giving people the choice in whether to buy coverages their home state mandates or buy elsewhere without having to pay for useless coverages. It is called "freedom".

If they want to "protect" people, stipulate that insurance policies cannot be cancelled by the insurance company for any reason other than non-payment. My old policy actually had that clause in it, so it isn't anything that couldn't be done. Now, as long as you have coverage, you get to keep your coverage. I'd even suggest a cap on the percentage the premiums could be increased each year...except we all know what that means: premiums WOULD go up by that much each year. Perhaps an increase cap for the years immediately following a major claim, so that a person's insurance won't quadruple the year after a heart attack (to the point they can't pay the premium) despite the fact that they'd been healthy and claim-free for 20 years prior...

HSA's are another thing that needs to be pushed...with OR WITHOUT a "compatible" health insurance policy. If someone wishes to "self insure" and put the money they'd otherwise spend on premiums into an HSA, why shouldn't they be able to do so? If you've got insurance, they're handy for paying deductibles, co-pays, and other costs...and spending your own money leads to more people giving a damn what things actually cost...which will bring down prices as doctors and hospitals now have to compete for your business.

Perhaps even require a list of prices for common procedures to be available...much like a menu at the restaurant...or at the very least, a rate such as your local mechanic indicating how much per hour/day/whatever you'll be charged for the non-typical stuff.

Done. Now, everybody knows what everything costs so they can control how much they spend, which also keeps the cost of insurance down. They can save to pay for their own care. They can choose whether or not to buy insurance, and if they do, they know they won't be cancelled if they get sick...just pay the premiums. Problem solved.

It doesn't HAVE to be complicated. Common sense and individual liberty are really all that is needed. Maybe even get back to the time when doctors charged their customers based on what the individual customer could afford to pay rather than what they could convince a 3rd party was necessary to pay.

It is absolutely ridiculous that you go to the hospital for a routine procedure that literally takes the doctor 5 minutes to perform...and NOBODY can tell you what it will cost BEFORE you have it done...until a month later you get a bill for $12,000. Routine stuff should be more like a car mechanic...get a quote, and they can't exceed that by more than 10%. Shop around, weighing cost vs reputation of the ones doing the work, and make your decision.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Sounds like you want to replace "Obamacare" with "Rowdycare"... Won't work, take away the subsidies, protections against insurance company gouging, etc. and no one over 50 will be able to afford real insurance, if they can even buy it. As for self insurance, even the big companies that self insure buy re-insurance to cover themselves from catastrophic losses. Even if the typical 20-something has been able to stash away a couple thousand dollars a year in an HSA, One injury will probably quickly blow through that HSA and force them into bankruptcy.